MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 8/3/26!)

[RandomGuy96]

He probably didn't use the Sokidan because it's not really a unique, powerful, or worthwhile attack. We see people guiding generic ki blasts all the time; much bigger and seemingly stronger blasts. Plus, that tiny ki ball was so weak that it hit Shen off guard straight in the face and only slightly bloodied his nose.

[Kid Buu]

Well he never really had an opportunity to use it after that one time, considering his battles after that.

As for the move itself, Shen said it was a really good technique and it's said to be his strongest move. The problem was that Yamucha was so outclassed be Shen that it was futile no matter what.

[RandomGuy96]

It is? Where? It certainly didn't come off as a good or powerful move.

[Kid Buu]

After he loses he says to Shen that he has no chance of beating someone who could get hit with the Sokidan and only suffer that much damage. Wouldn't make sense for him to say that if he has a stronger attack under his disposal....right?

[RandomGuy96]

After he loses he says to Shen that he has no chance of beating someone who could get hit with the Sokidan and only suffer that much damage. Wouldn't make sense for him to say that if he has a stronger attack under his disposal....right?

I'm not saying he has a stronger attack, I'm saying that all of his attacks suck, including this one, so it really was the best he could manage. What else would he have used? The Kamehameha? The same move that, in his hands, couldn't even significantly injure someone much weaker than him?

[Kid Buu]

Well, Shen says the Sokidan was really a good technique, so take that as you will.

[RandomGuy96]

Well, Shen says the Sokidan was really a good technique, so take that as you will.

You mean here?

Chapter: 175, P14.3
Context: talking about the Sokidan.
Shen: “No no, that was really a good technique.

Well, one, he says "that really was a good technique" rather than "that was a really good technique". Two... I'm not so sure about his comment here. Kami seems to consider it impressive because it can guided, and it caught him off guard:

Chapter: 175, P10.2-3
Context: talking about the Sokidan, and how Shen dodges it.
Yamcha: “Hmph! You’re as fast as ever…!”
Shen: “Wh-what the?! To think that you had an ace-in-the-hole like this! That right now was absolutely fantastic!"

But later in the 23rd Budokai, the use of a powerful guided blast is used by Goku to show what a n00b Piccolo is, with everyone else being shocked. I'm sure that's not just a coincidence, since Yamcha used a similar move just two matches ago. Maybe Kami could just be talking about its power (which would go along with what Yamcha says), but Yamcha never used it again, and you'd think that if it was that strong, Yamcha would have used it against the Cultivar instead of the Kamehameha. Also, no one bothers copying it, not even Tenshinhan, even though they have no problem stealing moves.

Oh, and since I forgot to mention it, watching Gaffer's dissections of the first few arcs did draw my attention to things I didn't notice the first time around, and made me appreciate Yamcha a bit more. I like when villains think outside the box and can be a threat without just brute forcing it with a power level that's just way higher than everyone else's for no reason (looking at you, Freeza). That's one of the reasons I like Buu.

[Kid Buu]

I always just figured that he didn't really have enough time to amplify one against the Saibaman. It seemed that he brief chance to hit the Saibaman from dodging the attack, and quickly shot a Kamehameha. After the 23rd Budokai, every battle that Toei gave with him has him using the Sokidan when he uses a Ki attack.

Oh and "not even Tenshinhan?" I'm kinda surprised to hear you say that since while a lot of people do copy his moves, I don't recall him copying others techniques frequently. He does use the Kamehameha once, but it felt like he was using that just to troll Jackie Chun. That being said, Gotenks did use the Rougafuufuuken. (Oh, and I agree with you on Freeza).

Also, since we are talking about the two of them, for Gaffer Tape, apparently Tenshinhan broke Yamcha's left but in later Piccolo Daimao arc chapters it was his right leg that had the cast on?

[RandomGuy96]

I always just figured that he didn't really have enough time to amplify one against the Saibaman. It seemed that he brief chance to hit the Saibaman from dodging the attack, and quickly shot a Kamehameha. After the 23rd Budokai, every battle that Toei gave with him has him using the Sokidan when he uses a Ki attack.

I guess that's possible.

He didn't even use any ki attacks during his two, er, "finest" filler moments, though.

Oh and "not even Tenshinhan?" I'm kinda surprised to hear you say that since while a lot of people do copy his moves, I don't recall him copying others techniques frequently. He does use the Kamehameha once, but it felt like he was using that just to troll Jackie Chun. That being said, Gotenks did use the Rougafuufuuken. (Oh, and I agree with you on Freeza).

I brought up Tenshinhan because we see that he can copy techniques. He doesn't bother keeping the Kamehameha because he has better moves, but you'd think that of the Sokidan was good, he would have tried to copy and keep it as well, because he doesn't seem to have anything like it.

Yeah, but he did it just to troll Avocado.

[Gaffer Tape]

Also, since we are talking about the two of them, for Gaffer Tape, apparently Tenshinhan broke Yamcha's left but in later Piccolo Daimao arc chapters it was his right leg that had the cast on?

Oh, my gosh! You're right! Aaaaaaaaaaah! How did I never notice this before? How did this not come to my attention before I finished this arc? That so would have been something I would have made a joke about. I am so about to have a conniption over this.

Anyway, to clarify to others reading this (since I just got done looking at every single panel of Yamucha in a cast to verify whether this was true or not), Tenshinhan breaks Yamucha's left leg. His cast is consistently on the left leg for almost everything after that. But once Yamucha got in his plane and wasn't seen below the waist for a while, Toriyama must have forgotten what leg it was on because once he gets to the battlefield his cast is consistently on his right leg for the rest of his convalescence. Well, except for that one panel where he's helping Tenshinhan back to their plane where he doesn't seem to be wearing a cast at all.

Oh, this just burns me up. I'm the guy who spent a whole minute during the RRA arc talking about Goku's sack... You know what I mean. And I even noticed a minute change in Karin Tower's design to accommodate the God retcon. But I never noticed that Yamucha's rescue plan was so broken that it broke his other leg?! Gaaaah!

[Kid Buu]

You can add it to the TV Version of the Daimao Arc review I guess? I listened to our Skype discussion and realized that i forgot to mention a few things myself. Like Furuya voicing the same Saibaman who kills Yamucha, or when we spoke of Oolong appearing in more films, that Yamucha actually "battles" Oolong in a film. Then again, it isn't like we haven't covered the movies yet, so maybe that isn't so bad. However, neglected the Saibaman/Furuya part kinda bothers me, but I'll find a way to shoehorn it our discussion.

Also, it was actually AnzuMazaki who told me about the broken leg changing sides. I didn't notice that until he/she told me.

I guess that's possible.

He didn't even use any ki attacks during his two, er, "finest" filler moments, though.

Well he uses it in against the Phantom Saiyans, Tullece Henchmen, and in the 2008 OVA.

Hmmm...Spirit Punch? I've never heard this before. Is this a DB Wiki thing?

I brought up Tenshinhan because we see that he can copy techniques. He doesn't bother keeping the Kamehameha because he has better moves, but you'd think that of the Sokidan was good, he would have tried to copy and keep it as well, because he doesn't seem to have anything like it.

I suppose so, but Goku also has a big reputation for stealing other peoples moves, and he is certainly a lot more proactive than Tenshinhan, so I'm surprised you didn't mention someone like him.

Yeah, but he did it just to troll Avocado.

Well I said Tenshinhan trolling Jackie Chun because from what I remember it was Ten's way of saying "Oh Yamcha and Kuririn think they are hot shit for doing the Kamehameha? Ha I can use that scrub move just as easily!" But I'll probably have to double check the manga since its been a while since I read that fight in particular.

You ARE right that Gotenks using the move is just a gag, though.

[Kid Buu]

Sorry to double post, but was it ever explained why Old Man Kami was so absurdly strong compared to young Daimao? He never really seemed to do any training or such.

[Kamiccolo9]

Sorry to double post, but was it ever explained why Old Man Kami was so absurdly strong compared to young Daimao? He never really seemed to do any training or such.

I would guess that it wasn't an even split when Kami expelled all of his evil. I mean, I'd imagine there was more good in him than evil, at that point, so it makes sense that the evil part would be weaker.

Kinda like what happens with Gray Buu and Mr. Buu later.

[Kid Buu]

I kind of assumed that too, but ti still raises a few eyebrows that even Daimao in his prime is a lot weaker than Old Man Kami, as well as Mr. Popo. I suppose Kami trains in his spare time, but Toriyama never gave off that vibe. Hell, do we even know what Kami does? Watch over Earth? Intervene when he wants to rather than when Earth is in danger?

[Tyro]

I kind of assumed that too, but ti still raises a few eyebrows that even Daimao in his prime is a lot weaker than Old Man Kami, as well as Mr. Popo. I suppose Kami trains in his spare time, but Toriyama never gave off that vibe. Hell, do we even know what Kami does? Watch over Earth? Intervene when he wants to rather than when Earth is in danger?

This is what I assume to messily stick all the pieces together: The Son of Katatz split his ki/potential in half when he expelled Piccolo Daimao. At this point God and Daimao would be equal in terms of fighting ability. God continued to train with Mr. Popo for an unspecified amount of time and they both became much more powerful. By the time God has reached old age it seems he no longer commits his time to strenuous training.

[mAcChaos]

Just the fact that Kami is familiar with training techniques means he must have trained in his youth, and it fits the idea of someone trying to improve and purify themselves. Especially since he is basically a martial artist too.

[Kid Buu]

I think most of the Kami controversy stems from the 23rd Budokai. If Toriyama had set a rule that Kami couldn't interfere* and didn't have him at the 23rd Budokai, then it wouldn't seem as bad. I get the feeling that Toriyama added Kami to the tournament for tension, similar to Jackie Chun in the 22nd Budokai.

*Then again, Kami still comes across as a dick, since the Earth-wrecking Daimao was made by him.

[Zephyr]

I feel the whole issue serves to actually give Kami some character.

He has rules to follow, and he begrudgingly followed them for some time. He's now at the point, though, where he feels the need to say screw the rules. Only, when he does this, he does it sloppily. That also serves to show that God is infallible and can make mistakes too.

[Kid Buu]

I guess he's also there as the Worf.

That said, I want to make a guide of every worf in the series one day.

[Zephyr]

I guess he's also there as the Worf.

That said, I want to make a guide of every worf in the series one day.

Not really knowledgeable on Star Trek, what does it mean for a character to be a "Worf"?