The International Version of the Buu-Kai Arc

[TheBlackPaladin]

J-One is in a big partership with Kaze, the French publisher that recently acquired rights to Kai and wants to release Blu-rays around September.

It's interesting that you say "recently." Can I take that to mean that the rights to Kai in France--and by extension, all of the episodes from the beginning to the end of the Cell saga--were previously held by another company? Let me guess...the AB Groupe?

Does this mean that the French dub is under the creative control of other people now? I hope there isn't a drop in quality thanks to the new ownership.

[Cold Skin]

^ Well, I don't know if there can be more than one rightholder. It's possible than when Kaze said they acquired "the rights", it was a convenient way to say "the rights to create DVDs and Blu-rays and sell them", and not other kinds of rights.

But yes, the previous DVDs for the Freezer-Cell sagas were done by the AB Group, under their "AB Video" label (saw that pesky logo at the start of DVDs quite enough times)!
This time, Kaze likely handles all of the discs content and box set. This surely means beautiful box arts, but for the content, we don't know yet.

The dubbing is left untouched by this acquisition, Kaze has no say in that process (the dub started before the acquisition anyway). But the official subtitles on the discs might be different, that depends if Kaze chooses that we keep it in line with what was previously released for Kai, or if they say "our discs, our way, our subtitles!"

If you ask me, Kaze only acquired the rights to make their masters (which may or may not imply 4:3 for the Freezer-Cell sagas, we don't know anything about the Blu-ray contents for now and we don't know if they base their masters on the Japanese discs), which they can print and sell on their discs, which content they are free to give to their partner channels.

[DBZ_Lee]

This really has appeared completely out of the blue. My friend in France didn't know this was on. It's disappointing from the French fans perspective that it is on a subscription channel, meaning they have alienated a lot of the fan base as a result.
The previous Arcs were on Game One, and I'm sure it's a case of the Viacom/MTV group choosing to put Kai onto this subscription channel in the hope of gaining more subscribers for it.

[Samwize78]

And what about Nickelodeon? Doesn't it have the rights for DBZ Kai anymore?

Apparently they no longer have the rights to Kai. Toonami announced on their Tumblr a while back that they will begin airing Kai in the fall, uncut, and from the beginning. So if "The Final Chapters" is going to air on US television, it won't be for a couple of years at least, unless some other channel somehow is granted the rights to air it. Even so, FUNimation's release should be out fairly shortly after their Z Blu-ray releaseses finish, if not right after.

Also, on the subject of the green tint, when I saw the "Battle of Gods" dub there was no green tint. So either FUNimation wasn't given a master with the tint, or they corrected it themselves.

[Freeza Soldier #156]

Also, on the subject of the green tint, when I saw the "Battle of Gods" dub there was no green tint. So either FUNimation wasn't given a master with the tint, or they corrected it themselves.

There wasn't a green tint on the Japanese release either. I think the only mention of a green tint on BOG was on some promotional material aired on TV.

[andrewtuell1991]

Though the placement has been a very mixed bag across both versions, the overall quality of the International Version is far superior. Would I have preferred a lesser episode count from 69, sure, but I understand and see why they produced that amount.

But there's barely any difference between a 92 and a 69 episode count. I might as well continue watching my Dragon Boxes if the pacing is going to be that similar.

The issues are there to be seen, awkward editing is apparent all over the Japanese episodes, some cover 6 chapters, whilst others barely cover 2 (which are clearly taken from the International version) another issue is the lack of breathing space, the cut throat editing which looks very unprofessional, and rushed.

6 chapters!? The most any episode from the Japanese broadcast has covered is 4 with the Goten vs Trunks episodes, and 4 chapters is about the right pacing for Kai anyway.

Thing is, what you see in the Japanese broadcast version is what you get when you remove more filler and cut at every opportunity - a mess.

Isn't that the entire purpose of Kai's existence? To remove as much filler as possible? I've watched the first couple of episodes online and I don't really see what the problem is.

Erratic pacing, poorly edited scenes, wall-to-wall music but to name a few.

If these last couple of episodes are from the International version, it isn't much better! Sluggish pacing and still awful music, even with silence in between, isn't a better alternative!

Yes, I'd much rather sit though 69 episodes with a better, more consistent pacing and for the most part well edited production than a hack job for the sake of a lesser episode count.

It's an anime by Toei, it's going to be an ill-produced hack job either way. May as way get the version that has less episodes and therefore costs less money.

The only reason we got 98 for the 1st iteration of Kai was because they had to produce below 104 episodes for Fuji TV.

Where did you get that information from!? It was 98 episodes because that's just what it came to when the editing was done (even though it could've been a lot less).

[sintzu]

But there's barely any difference between a 92 and a 69 episode count. I might as well continue watching my Dragon Boxes if the pacing is going to be that similar.

Cutting close to 8 hours isn't a difference ?

[andrewtuell1991]

Cutting close to 8 hours isn't a difference ?

When it comes to how much can be cut out of the Buu arc, no! Only 23 episodes / 8 hours is not significant enough to justify it's existence and certainly isn't worth my money.

[Kid Buu]

The Buu Arc is 99 chapters if I remember correctly, which would mean given the traditional 3:1 chapter ratio a remake could go on for about 33 episodes.

[sintzu]

The Buu Arc is 99 chapters if I remember correctly, which would mean given the traditional 3:1 chapter ratio a remake could go on for about 33 episodes.

The only way to make the arc work as an anime is to have filler in it one reason being that in the manga the fights only go on for 1-2 chapters.

[andrewtuell1991]

The only way to make the arc work as an anime is to have filler in it one reason being that in the manga the fights only go on for 1-2 chapters.

So? If a fight only lasts 1-2 chapters then it must not have that much significance. Instead of dragging it out, adapt it for what it is and you could probably fit in half an episode.

The Buu Arc is 99 chapters if I remember correctly

You remember correctly but also remember that the chapters of the Buu arc are shorter than before, being only 12-13 pages instead of the usual 14 it was before. One night, out of curiosity and boredom, I decided to go through and count all the pages of the Buu arc and add them all up. The Buu arc is 1289 pages Kanzenban-wise (tankoubon is 1284). Divide 1289 by 14 and you get 92.07. (I am such a nerd)

which would mean given the traditional 3:1 chapter ratio a remake could go on for about 33 episodes.

For chapters than have a good amount of talking in them yes, but for portions that more fighting and less talking you could easily 4 even 5 chapters in one episode and still have good pacing. With my 92.07 figure, my prediction for a filler-less Buu arc would be about 25 episodes give or take.

[Puto]

I will note that even in the case of episodes which are basically untouched between the Japanese and International versions, the music placement is still completely different—presumably the intent is to remove any BGM based on Fight it Out and Never Give Up, but it's really a total redo. I know this because I compared the snippet that DBZ_Lee managed to post of the Final Chapters equivalent of Japanese episode 101—the editing is the same, a perfect match (when the video didn't stop to buffer, anyway), but the background music was all different.

[sintzu]

If a fight only lasts 1-2 chapters then it must not have that much significance.

Goku and Vegeta's rematch is insignificant ?
The final battle of the story is insignificant ?

Toie have got a lot wrong with the series but stretching out the Buu arc's fight's isn't one of them and if anything it's the best thing they've done.

[Valerius Dover]

I will note that even in the case of episodes which are basically untouched between the Japanese and International versions, the music placement is still completely different—presumably the intent is to remove any BGM based on Fight it Out and Never Give Up, but it's really a total redo. I know this because I compared the snippet that DBZ_Lee managed to post of the Final Chapters equivalent of Japanese episode 101—the editing is the same, a perfect match (when the video didn't stop to buffer, anyway), but the background music was all different.

Whoa.... I wonder why that is...and are there any BGMs present that haven't been heard in the Fuji TV edit so far?

[Cold Skin]

A guy that has J-One was kind enough to share a video of extracts with us French fans.
He couldn't get his HDD to be detected by the TV, so he only filmed a few moments in emergency with his phone. It's still enough to give us a glimpse of it.

It's interesting to see, I can't wait to see more about all those tiny bits of scenes that have been extended here and there.
Some episodes end at completely different points.
It's good to see the ending with French writings and of course, names of the staff and actors being replaced with those of the French staff and actors.

Right now, Gohan is gonna teach Videl and Goten how to fly in the next episode, so that gives you an idea of where we're at.

[danielsan_190196]

Footage from the french version

http://youtu.be/0Rzrevx1zbw

[andrewtuell1991]

Goku and Vegeta's rematch is insignificant ?

Yes. The only purpose that fight serves is to fuel Majin Buu's revival. It did not need to be as stretched out as it was.

The final battle of the story is insignificant ?

The fight with Pure Buu is 7 chapters long (510-516), not 1-2. Don't forget, from Evil Buu vs. Gotenks in ROSAT 'til that battle was basically one big long marathon battle with only a few brief pauses. The fight with Pure Buu was more like a dénouement than an actual whole battle. Besides, all Pure Buu did screech and cackle, hurry and kill that thing please!

it's the best thing they've done.

The only thing Toei ever that was a genuine improvement over the manga was Kid Gohan's SSJ2 Transformation (long live Unmei no Hi!). Everything else was completely unnecessary.

[Cold Skin]

Footage from the french version

http://youtu.be/0Rzrevx1zbw

Thanks, that's the footage I was talking about.
Gives you a glimpse of a few extended scenes and the ending with western writings.

Will Korea get to the 2nd ending first, or will France get there first with episodes everyday?

[TheBlackPaladin]

Is there a new French dub voice actor for teen Gohan, or did the guy from the original French dub of DBZ reprise his role?

[sangofe]

Is there a new French dub voice actor for teen Gohan, or did the guy from the original French dub of DBZ reprise his role?

Original.