The biggest insult to vegeta

[Artyom]

During the Buu arc Vegeta and Goku face off in a long awaited battle of epic proportions.
As a veggi fanboy I loved seeing him on par with goku.

Now, I have no problem with goku- the main character, being more powerful most of the time or getting most of the lime light but my issue with this fight and what I think was a huge insult to veggi's character and fan base was that goku could go ssj3 all along.

I always thought it took away the seriousness and epic nature of their rematch to learn it was all a game to goku if he wanted it to be, the fight just seems to lose all meaning to me.

Do you guys think it would've been better had goku unlocked ssj3 perhaps after learning of vegetas sacrifice? Not only would their battle have remained a true rematch of old rivalries but goku would've been actually given a reason to ascend as appossed to "it just happened in other world one afternoon"

[sintzu]

To me it showed that no matter what Vegeta did the only way he could reach Goku was to change the way he was which is what he said at the end of the arc and now we're seeing the results of his change in the new movie(s).

[Artyom]

To me it showed that no matter what Vegeta did the only way he could reach Goku was to change the way he was which is what he said at the end of the arc and now we're seeing the results of his change in the new movie(s).

I suppose in retrospect that's a fair point however, I still feel like a situation that was meant to be so serious and so full of raw emotion from vegetas side was ultimately just turned into nothing more than Goku indulging Vegeta instead of the match of the century between the last two full blooded sayajins.

[Marco Polo]

I don't see Goku getting so upset over Vegeta's death. They don't have that kind of relationship IMO. Goku considers Vegeta a warrior first and foremost. Vegeta is Goku's friend like Piccolo or Krillin, but unlike them he's a warrior first. You don't cry over a warrior's death especially when he died a proud death in battle. Krillin, who is Goku's childhood friend (and who stopped fighting years ago anyway), sure. Piccolo, who is Gohan's mentor, maybe. But Vegeta? I don't see it.

[Galan007]

Well, the battle was already somewhat cheapened for me when we found out that Vegeta needed the 'Majin-amp' just to put him on par with SSJ2 Goku. It was then completely soured for me when it was revealed that Goku could have went SSJ3 at any point during their battle and destroyed him with a single shot. In short: Goku allowed Vegeta to believe that he stood a chance, even though he never actually did--not if Goku would've decided to turn it up, that is.

...But it seemed like Akira tried to somewhat rectify Vegeta's seeming uselessness when he had him momentarily surpass Goku's [SSJ3] power against Beerus in BoG. /shrug

[Artyom]

I don't see Goku getting so upset over Vegeta's death. They don't have that kind of relationship IMO. Goku considers Vegeta a warrior first and foremost. Vegeta is Goku's friend like Piccolo or Krillin, but unlike them he's a warrior first. You don't cry over a warrior's death especially when he died a proud death in battle. Krillin, who is Goku's childhood friend (and who stopped fighting years ago anyway), sure. Piccolo, who is Gohan's mentor, maybe. But Vegeta? I don't see it.

Perhaps if the scene that followed had a dialogue with trunks crying to goku over his fathers death and realising vegeta saved gotens life and a brief piece from piccolo telling goku about vegetas selflessness, who knows? Maybe everyone elses emotions erupting around him could set him off or make him realise that if his equal-vegeta could not defeat Buu then an ascension won't just be an emotional response but a nesseccary one too.

[Kamiccolo9]

Buu Arc Goku is just kinda a dick. A well-meaning dick, and not a particularly smart one, but a dick nonetheless.

[Artyom]

Buu Arc Goku is just kinda a dick. A well-meaning dick, and not a particularly smart one, but a dick nonetheless.

I don't think AT was very good at keeping character personality consistency from saga to saga.

[Gaffer Tape]

Well, out of universe, it's obvious that Toriyama just hadn't come up with it yet... but, boy, does it fuck up the story something fierce and make Goku look like a huge dick.

And that's not because of Vegeta. I never found the Goku/Vegeta rematch to be epic or at all interesting because it's basically just a baby's temper tantrum taken to its most extreme conclusion. Vegeta had just slaughtered a bunch of innocent people and set in motion a chain of events that ultimately led to the entire world being destroyed. I honestly couldn't care less at that point if Vegeta's pride is hurt by Goku not going SSJ3. He deserves exactly what he got.

What annoys me about it, though, is that Goku could have easily taken out Vegeta in one shot, that would have been the end of it, and Boo would never have been revived. Nice job there, Goku...