DBZ Kai coming to Toonami

[Samwize78]

It's even possible that Episodes 96-98 have English masters with Yamamoto.

After Toei acknowledged Yamamoto's plagiarism, episode 96 was hastily re-edited and got its multiple scenes edited out because of the earthquake, so the Yamamoto score version of the episode doesn't even exist from the beginning.

And even if Toonami continues using the Yamamoto score the farthest they would probably be able to go with it would be around the Android saga. If I remember correctly, episode 63 was the farthest the FUNimation dub got with the Yamomoto score on Nicktoons. So it's possible that FUNi doesn't even have access to the remaining episodes with the Y-score.

[EXBadguy]

Okay...sooo yeah..I'm not watching Kai on Toonami anymore and I assume most people here know how I feel about the Kikuchi score in general. I understand why that guy "snitched", but this is BS. Hey, if you wanna hear silence and generic BS trumpet tunes in every episode, then more power to ya! I'll just find some Kai fights on youtube that HAS the Yammamoto score every now and then.

Who dafuq needs Toonami anyway? Hell, I'm not even an anime fan anymore, I only watched the current Toonami for Naruto(part 1) and One Piece last year, then quit and got interested in it again because of Kai and now this Yammamoto scandal is happening again? Fuck it, I'm done!

[Bananape]

I don't think DeMarco being made aware of the Yamamoto score was "snitching" and "tattletaling". If this had gone on longer than it had, FUNimation, and maybe even Toonami despite not knowing about the situation, could have been in serious trouble. I agree, the Yamamoto score would have been much better to have, but I'd rather have the Kikuchi score over seeing either FUNimation or Toonami in a legal dispute. At the end of the day, it's just the right thing to do.

[kei17]

Okay...sooo yeah..I'm not watching Kai on Toonami anymore and I assume most people here know how I feel about the Kikuchi score in general. I understand why that guy "snitched", but this is BS.

Snitched? I don't even understand what you're talking about here.

]Hey, if you wanna hear silence and generic BS trumpet tunes in every episode, then more power to ya! I'll just find some Kai fights on youtube that HAS the Yammamoto score every now and then.

And the Yamamoto score is filled with trumpets, too.

[MagicBox]

Hey, if you wanna hear silence and generic BS trumpet tunes in every episode, then more power to ya!

As Kei mentioned, Yamamoto's music was filled with trumpets. Also, Kikuchi-Kai features the exact same (lack of) background silence as Yamamoto-Kai. It's nearly wall-to-wall music in both versions. Criticizing only Kikuchi-Kai for having some background silence and trumpets holds no weight whatsoever.

I simply can't believe how far people will go to defend this guy. Yamamoto composed some good vocal songs for the DB video games. He composed some good Yu Yu Hakusho vocal songs. He's a dynamite arranger. But it's been an inside joke among the fandom for nearly two decades that the guy was a thief. There's a thread on the forum dedicated to it. There's a feature on the main site dedicated to it. He deserved what he got. Yet we still have people getting mad at Toei for replacing his music. Getting mad at FUNimation for using Toei's replacement score. Getting mad at fellow fans for reporting the Toonami error. Calling them "snitches." How 'bout, instead, we blame the man himself and not reward the guy for stealing?

The Yamamoto version of Kai has been effectively erased from history. As far as Toei, FUNimation, and all official parties are concerned, Kai was scored by Shunsuke Kikuchi. Nobody else. For this version to still be popping up on official releases/broadcasts (first the "season" one set, now the Toonami airing) is mind-boggling. People saying "Tee-hee, nobody say anything! Let's see how long we can make this last!" don't realize how big a deal this is. FUNimation could get in very big trouble with Papa Bear if this continues and it's good that the situation was brought to Cartoon Network's attention ASAP.

[EXBadguy]

Okay...sooo yeah..I'm not watching Kai on Toonami anymore and I assume most people here know how I feel about the Kikuchi score in general. I understand why that guy "snitched", but this is BS.

Snitched? I don't even understand what you're talking about here.

Does the guy who told DeMarco the mistake ring a bell? And I'll say this again, I UNDERSTAND why he did it, but I'm still mad at the situation, not the guy.

And the Yamamoto score is filled with trumpets, too.

I'm talking about the songs, and the Kikuchi ost generic as hell. Plus, in Yammamoto soundtrack, you can actually hear other stuff like rock and modern beats. WTF do you hear in Kikuchi's music, NOTHING but silence and generic polka tambourine tunes.

[kei17]

I'm talking about the songs, and the Kikuchi ost generic as hell. Plus, in Yammamoto soundtrack, you can actually hear other stuff like rock and modern beats. WTF do you hear in Kikuchi's music, NOTHING but silence and generic polka tambourine tunes.

Oh yeah, Star Wars needs rock and heavy metal cause its music is nothing but silence and generic old-school boring orchestra.

[VegettoEX]

I'd appreciate it if everyone could put the passive-aggressive comments aside and actually have the conversation here.

There's a lot to say, but if you're not actually saying it, please keep your comments to yourself.

[TheBlackPaladin]

The way I look at it, the best score that DBZ ever got was the original Kikuchi placement. If that's not an option, though, and the only two options we have in turn are either the Yamamoto score or the Kai placement of Kikuchi's score, I prefer the former. Yamamoto's score could be repetitive, but it did a good job--in my opinion, anyway--of at least fitting the mood. With the Kai placement of Kikuchi's score, we got a score that was even more repetitive and, on top of that, often didn't fit the mood.

[dbboxkaifan]

If the Kikuchi-Kai replacement score was properly done then it would have been a perfectly good substitution for the original score but it wasn't due to Toei Animation rushing it out and so the only episodes which got a decent replacement were 96-97 while the rest feels unsatisfying to say the least.

I got rid of Parts 5-8 and don't regret nor do I plan on ever getting those episodes back because they weren't made available with the authentic soundtrack so if it's to watch Dragon Ball with the Kikuchi score then let it be Z. Mr. Takaki would've done a much better replacement score for Kai but using Kikuchi's old Z music was probably cheaper and they used a very limited quantity too to keep the costs low.

[kei17]

The way I look at it, the best score that DBZ ever got was the original Kikuchi placement. If that's not an option, though, and the only two options we have in turn are either the Yamamoto score or the Kai placement of Kikuchi's score, I prefer the former. Yamamoto's score could be repetitive, but it did a good job--in my opinion, anyway--of at least fitting the mood. With the Kai placement of Kikuchi's score, we got a score that was even more repetitive and, on top of that, often didn't fit the mood.

Fitting the mood? Not really. A lot of non-orchestral tracks sticked out like a sore thumb. One of the worst instances was the one that played when Gohan gets scared of Nappa. To me, lack of unity was the biggest problem with Yamamoto's music in general since the '90s. Musical genre varies piece to piece and they don't have a consistent style or character. The reason is obvious now, though.

Also, though it wasn't extremely repetitive, the Yamamoto score's music placement was still subpar. There were a number of scenes with unfitting tracks or needed more silence. People seem to have started overrating it after getting something worse. It wasn't absolutely that great from the beginning. It was just relatevely somewhat better.

I don't deny that at least he captured the adventurous tone of the series more than Sumitomo or any American replacement score composers anyway.

[Soul]

I don't want to start a thread if I don't have to ask this question, but how is the final placement of Kikuchi's score in Kai, ala what got reissued in Japan on BD/DVD (which will be repackaged soon) and on FUNimation's Kai season sets?

I've heard plenty of complaints on the score that was initially used in reruns on Nicktoons and The CW airings, but never anything concrete on the final placement.

[Puto]

It's pretty bad in the first few episodes, seems to get better the further they go forward though.

[sangofe]

It's pretty bad in the first few episodes, seems to get better the further they go forward though.

Which is ironic because I think it was scored backwards (in regards the episode count), kinda?

[Puto]

I'm honestly not sure. Could be that by the end they were so tired of it they started halfassing it though.

[kei17]

It's pretty bad in the first few episodes, seems to get better the further they go forward though.

Which is ironic because I think it was scored backwards (in regards the episode count), kinda?

They simultaneously rescored the entire series by hiring multiple sound directors.

[ShinGaijin]

About Yamamoto's return on Adult Swim...maybe they'll use a specific version without the plagiarized pieces...remember what happened on Nicktoons when they began to air the Android saga.

[Dbzfan94]

Maybe they'll use the Faulconer score! (I know they won't do that but it'd be cool if they did)

[kei17]

About Yamamoto's return on Adult Swim...maybe they'll use a specific version without the plagiarized pieces...remember what happened on Nicktoons when they began to air the Android saga.

That was Toei's first attempt to solve the problem because they were still thinking that there were only a few infringing tracks at the time, but later it turned out that there're far more instances of plagiarism and they were forced to replace the entire score. My guess is that Yamamoto first lied to Toei and kept his mouth shut about the remaining tracks, and they completely lost trust in him when more pieces had been found out to be rip-offs. FYI, this is based on the info I directly heard from a certain person who was involved with the production.

In short, that's impossible.

[Bananape]

Well Z Kai performed the best out of all the shows on Toonami on it's first night, but is that really a surprise?

Code: Select all

                                                          A1849    Viewers  A1849
Net   Time Dur  Program                    HH               rtg     (000)   (000)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADSM 11:30  30  ATTACK ON TITAN            0.6              0.4       835     452
ADSM 12:00a 30  DRAGON BALL Z KAI          0.7              0.4       912     529
ADSM 12:30a 30  NARUTO: SHIPPUDEN          0.6              0.4       808     457
ADSM  1:00a 30  ONE PIECE                  0.5              0.3       713     356
ADSM  1:30a 30  GURREN LAGANN              0.5              0.2       591     282
ADSM  2:00a 60  HELLSING ULTIMATE          0.4              0.2       580     310
ADSM  3:00a 30  SPACE DANDY                0.3              0.2       472     267
ADSM  3:30a 30  COWBOY BEBOP               0.3              0.2       470     257
ADSM  4:00a 30  FULLMETAL: BROTHERHOOD     0.3              0.2       477     257
ADSM  4:30a 30  GHOST IN SHELL: 2ND GIG    0.3              0.2       484     264
ADSM  5:00a 30  BIG O/AN                   0.3              0.2       436     219
ADSM  5:30a 30  SAMURAI JACK               0.3              0.2       442     235

However, these ratings would have probably been even higher if it wasn't for the dispute between Turner and Dish right now. If you ask me though, the best way to keep up Z Kai's success is to individual episode promos like Attack on Titan has been getting. Surely if FUNimation is willing to pay for these kind of promos for Attack on Titan, they would be more than happy to for arguably one of their best their best titles as well, especially since Attack on Titan completed it's run a week earlier and can give up it's individual episode promos for Z Kai.