Are some of the Z warriors more skilled than the Saiyans?

[Yin Yang]

I know that the Saiyans are more powerful, but are the Saiyans more skilled than the Z warriors? If so, at what points they did surpass the Z warriors in skill?

My second question is if the Saiyans are more talented than the Z warriors simply because they are Saiyans? I mean if we disregarded some of the talents the Saiyans inherited from their Saiyan heritage (Zenkai, and Super Saiyan in particular), would some of the Z warriors be more talented than Saiyans?

[Rocketman]

More skilled than the kids, Raditz or Nappa, absolutely.

Vegeta's a lot more skilled that people give him credit for, though, I think he'd easily match the humans.

[Hitiro]

I think you could probably make an argument that Tenshinhan has immense talent. But it is questionable whether this is because of his race. Tenshinhan isn't a traditional human because he has alien ancestry. But I would say if he were born a Saiyan he could probably rival Vegeta or Goku.

[Marco Polo]

So if you remove the talents of the Saiyans then the humans have more talents. Huh, not sure what your point is.

[Saiga]

There's no evidence for it in the series. The humans have their martial arts and all, but the Saiyans are a race of warriors and I don't see why they wouldn't have developed their own skills during their history of warfare.

Also, even though the humans are martial artists, they don't seem very skilled (at least not for most of the series). Roshi never trained anyone in skill, he was fine with them simply grasping the basics and then raising their raw power through training. God might've increased their skills, as he seems to have done that for Goku, but they never show it.

[Hitiro]

So if you remove the talents of the Saiyans then the humans have more talents. Huh, not sure what your point is.

I think it is more like if you remove the genetic advantage of the Saiyan's then the humans could be just as talented as the Saiyan's. If not more. Considering Tenshinhan could learn most moves just by seeing them once and he developed an effective counter to the Kamehameha. I would say he has incredible talent. But again. Not sure if Tenshinhan's talent is innate or part of his genetic predisposition.

[Saiga]

I really don't think what Tenshinhan did was unique or impressive. Only Fat Boo was said to have a special ability to copy things, and both of the attacks he copied have been copied by others as well - the Kamehameha was copied by just about everyone.

Then there are things like Vegeta copying the Kienzan or ki sensing, it doesn't seem like a big deal to begin with.

[Marco Polo]

So if you remove the talents of the Saiyans then the humans have more talents. Huh, not sure what your point is.

I think it is more like if you remove the genetic advantage of the Saiyan's then the humans could be just as talented as the Saiyan's. If not more. Considering Tenshinhan could learn most moves just by seeing them once and he developed an effective counter to the Kamehameha. I would say he has incredible talent. But again. Not sure if Tenshinhan's talent is innate or part of his genetic predisposition.

Isn't talent genetic? I thought that was the whole point of Cell.

[Hitiro]

I really don't think what Tenshinhan did was unique or impressive. Only Fat Boo was said to have a special ability to copy things, and both of the attacks he copied have been copied by others as well - the Kamehameha was copied by just about everyone.

Then there are things like Vegeta copying the Kienzan or ki sensing, it doesn't seem like a big deal to begin with.

Chapter: 124, P13.1-2
Context: after Tenshinhan fires a Kamehameha
Goku: “Amazin’..!”
Kuririn: “Wh-what a guy…Th-that one just now was really huge…”
Tenshinhan: “Fufufu…With that level of technique, if I see it just once I can immediately make it my own. Show me even more techniques! I’ll become stronger and stronger!”

Well. He says he can copy other techniques. And he copies the Mafuba later easily too. So I still think he is impressive. He's also the only character to demonstrated a counter for a Ki attack like the Kamehameha.

Isn't talent genetic? I thought that was the whole point of Cell.

Yeah. But there is talent that is genetic and just plain genetic advantage. I wouldn't say that Zenkai's are "talent."

[Saiga]

He said "with that level of technique" and just about everyone can copy the Kamehameha seeing it once. He trained to use the Mafuba.

And no, that was just a kiai. Almost exactly the same thing he does to Tao's Super Dodonpa, and Goku does to Nappa's mouth blast, just reflecting instead of dispelling (and honestly I think dispelling something completely is more impressive).

[Hitiro]

He said "with that level of technique" and just about everyone can copy the Kamehameha seeing it once. He trained to use the Mafuba.

And no, that was just a kiai. Almost exactly the same thing he does to Tao's Super Dodonpa, and Goku does to Nappa's mouth blast, just reflecting instead of dispelling (and honestly I think dispelling something completely is more impressive).

Somehow, with the hand gestures and the fact that the shout came before the Kamehameha hit him I don't think it was a simple Kiai. Especially considering Kame-sennin confirms to us that the Kamehameha itself is ineffective against the Tenshinhan. No matter how large it is.

Chapter: 133, P12.3-4
Kame-sennin: “He mustn’t! He can’t defeat him with a Kamehameha!”
Kuririn: “B-but knowing him, maybe it will be some absolutely incredible Kamehameha!”
Kame-sennin: “No…This Tenshinhan fellow, the Kamehameha itself doesn’t affect him. It has nothing to do with how large or small it is…”

[dbzfan7]

He said "with that level of technique" and just about everyone can copy the Kamehameha seeing it once. He trained to use the Mafuba.

And no, that was just a kiai. Almost exactly the same thing he does to Tao's Super Dodonpa, and Goku does to Nappa's mouth blast, just reflecting instead of dispelling (and honestly I think dispelling something completely is more impressive).

Somehow, with the hand gestures and the fact that the shout came before the Kamehameha hit him I don't think it was a simple Kiai. Especially considering Kame-sennin confirms to us that the Kamehameha itself is ineffective against the Tenshinhan. No matter how large it is.

Chapter: 133, P12.3-4
Kame-sennin: “He mustn’t! He can’t defeat him with a Kamehameha!”
Kuririn: “B-but knowing him, maybe it will be some absolutely incredible Kamehameha!”
Kame-sennin: “No…This Tenshinhan fellow, the Kamehameha itself doesn’t affect him. It has nothing to do with how large or small it is…”

I don't buy that. If Super Vegetto or SSJ God Goku fires a Kamehameha at Tenshinhan, he's dead.

[Hitiro]

I don't buy that. If Super Vegetto or SSJ God Goku fires a Kamehameha at Tenshinhan, he's dead.

His technique is to reflect Kamehameha's. I would assume it doesn't matter what strength they are. As Kame-sennin says. But it doesn't matter if Super Vegetto couldn't fire one because Tenshinhan would be dead anyway. I'm not sure about SSJGod Goku because the Kamehameha would be made of God Ki, right? That is fundamentally changing the Kamehameha. It wouldn't be the same as a regular person doing a Kamehameha.

[Vice]

If you're talking about just pure taijutsu skill and not strength, i'd have it ranked as:

1. Goku
2. Vegeta
3. Piccolo
4. Tenshinhan
5. Krillin
6. Yamcha
7. Gohan
8. Trunks
9. Goten

But that's just me.