Rank your favorite composer

[EXBadguy]

Don't need to explain much here. Plus you can explain why you feel that way. I can't wait to get this off my chest once and for all! Anyway, here's mine.

DB:
Kikuchi>everyone else

DBZ/Kai:
1- Yammamoto=Falconer>Suitomo>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kikuchi(as I said in MANY threads now, I find his music in Z generic as hell.)

DBGT:
Tokunaga=Menza(both I equally enjoy)

Games:
Budokai series=Eng. BT2 soundtrack>ENG. Ultimate Tenkaichi ost>All of the GBA ost(LOG, Buu's Fury, Taiketsu)>ENG. BT3 soundtrack>ENG. RB1 soundtrack>ENG. RB2 soundtrack>>>>>>>Kikuchi(Why the hell do people want his shit to be in the games? )

[VegettoEX]

So elaborate if you're genuinely looking to have this conversation. What's generic about the score in Z that suddenly makes it entirely different from it just one episode prior in the first TV series? The very end of Dragon Ball has gigantic blasts with a giant supervillain. So does the very next set of episodes when Z starts. What's wrong with the music, especially considering that the Saiyan arc still uses some DB tunes as it slowly introduces its own new score into the mix, similar to what the entire series does over the full 444-episode (153 + 291) run?

To put my money where my mouth is, here's something I recently wrote (bolded for relevance/emphasis):

For starters, it's not even the first dub replacement soundtrack I was exposed to, so I had/have zero nostalgia for it in that respect. I already had Shuki Levy's score on loop in my head as "the English dub" for three years by the time the in-house dub came around... and by that point, I had already long moved over to simply watching the show in Japanese pretty much exclusively. It was just this extraneous production that wasn't made for me and I was never going to enjoy. It was a thing to occasionally check out and essentially just make fun of and complain about.

As others have outlined, another big part wasn't just the score itself, but everything it was mixed with to form this final product. The script, the voices, the score (and specifically how it never shuts up and gets in the way of the show itself, never mind its tone often completely contradicting the original scene intent)... put them all together, and you have what newer fans are going back to today and wondering if it's a legitimate dub or some type of fan parody. The redubbings they did for the orange bricks really wash over that early amateur hour.

The biggest thing for me, and I never was able to / still can't effectively put this into words since I don't have the musical background or technical expertise to explain it...

But it's like there's this entire frequency missing in the Faulconer Productions score. Like, if you think of audio as a visual representation (I guess think of a waveform), and you just strike out a whole giant middle portion of it horizontally across, that's what the Faulconer Productions score sounds like to me. There's something missing. There's something not there. I can't figure it out.

Was is the instrumentation? The the equipment used?

I dunno. The whole thing always sounded cheap and super obvious as a, "We're totally just slapping this over top!"...

... and that's super unappealing. I hesitate to use the word "revolting," 'cuz it's not like I would ACTUALLY blow chunks over it, but there's totally this grimace that hits my face when I unexpectedly get hit with it, like this, "Wait, what...? I thought... DBZ... OOOOOHHHH, right."

Everything about the original Japanese production just naturally flows together and across itself. The voices grow and mature along with their characters, the Kikuchi score introduces new motifs and songs that build and add to themselves along with pulling in movie stuff...

It's just the show, ya' know? I always describe as this state of being: it is what it is. That's the show. That's what I love. That's what I'm interested in. Anything else is a curiosity at best, and entirely off-putting at worst.

[EXBadguy]

So elaborate if you're genuinely looking to have this conversation. What's generic about the score in Z that suddenly makes it entirely different from it just one episode prior in the first TV series? The very end of Dragon Ball has gigantic blasts with a giant supervillain. So does the very next set of episodes when Z starts. What's wrong with the music, especially considering that the Saiyan arc still uses some DB tunes as it slowly introduces its own new score into the mix, similar to what the entire series does over the full 444-episode (153 + 291) run?

Well, I find all of Kikuchi's music to be generic, but I admire his DB soundtrack, cuz it really fitted the mood for me with all the adventure going on. For Z, I just don't feel the same way. I find it odd to hear tambourines and trumpets when I see Goku getting stomped by Raditz, or Cell beating the living fuck outta Gohan. I expect to hear ROUGH and SAVAGE music, whether if it's rock, sinister crazy trumpets songs that has different note minors, anything, NOT hearing silence and mellowed tambourines and trumpets. I feel that Kikuchi didn't satisfy me in that area, therefore, that's why I'm glad things were the way they were with problems bringing Kikuchi internationally, AND bringing rock bands to the DBZ movies, just to differentiate from the official ost and to fit the atmosphere. I wish Toei brought in a different composer for the JP movies back then.

I hope this answers your question.

[MagicBox]

Don't need to explain much here. Plus you can explain why you feel that way.

With all due respect, the only one of your rankings in which you've explained "why you feel that way" is when you find a chance to (very harshly) take a stab at Shunsuke Kikuchi and his work. May I ask why you've been doing this so often as of late? I recall an old thread in which you expressed your opinions far more effectively.

Shinuske Kikuchi - I like some of his soundtrack but the thing about it is that it was too boring for my taste.

Calm, rational, respectful. No exclamation points or sarcastic smilies. You even acknowledge that you enjoy some of his compositions. Why the sudden change? It's a genuine question. Is it because so many fans prefer Kikuchi's score and aren't as fond of Yamamoto or the dub composers? Do you feel like you need to stay all the way over on the opposite side of the spectrum to maintain a balance of opinions on the forum? You haven't told us what you think of any of the other composers that you listed. One gets the impression that you've only created this thread to pick on this one musician.

EDIT: Your previous post (the one above mine) was a big improvement. I still don't entirely understand your point of view (if Kikuchi's music doesn't fit while Raditz is killing Goku, then why does it fit when Piccolo Daimao is killing Goku limb-by-limb?), but it's nice to hear you put an effort into explain your reasoning.

Anyway, I'll throw my hat into the ring.

Kikuchi tops my ranking with his hummable melodies, wonderful orchestral arrangements, and consistent use of leitmotif. Everyone's got their own theme (Piccolo, Kuririn, Muten Roshi, Vegeta, Gohan, the list goes on). Akihito Tokunaga comes in second place; gone are the character themes, but the lighthearted, bouncing sense of "Dragon Ball" adventure comes through in his compositions and theme song arrangements. He wonderfully carried on Kikuchi's legacy and tone. Kenji Yamamoto, Norihito Sumitomo, and Hiroshi Takaki all tie for a very distant third place in my book. One gets the sense that they understand the adventurous tone of the world and its story, but the execution has always felt empty. Something's missing.

I view the dub music / game compositions as "image songs," in a way. Loosely inspired by the world and its characters, but varied in tone (and some tracks are very nice; I applaud the use of leitmotif in the Faulconer Productions score, even if I no longer enjoy many of the compositions/arrangements themselves).

[EXBadguy]

Calm, rational, respectful. No exclamation points or sarcastic smilies. You even acknowledge that you enjoy some of his compositions. Why the sudden change? It's a genuine question.

I still do feel this way. If you reread the post from the thread that you mentioned, I said I like the whole DB soundtrack from him, but I think his Z work is overrated and not that good. There ARE a few of them that I like though, not gonna lie. And as for King Piccolo beating up Goku though, that's the only time I let it slide, other than that, I only think Kikuchi's music only fits the adventure area and not the intense fighting area,

[mcdonough88]

1-Kikuchi, THE BEST.
2-Yamamoto, did a lot of good for DB, but also a lot of bad.
3-Sumitomo, He's getting there, but I think he'll stall.
4-Tokunaga, he's OK.
Cannot rank Takaki because he didn't any of the DB TV series.

[kei17]

What's generic about the score in Z that suddenly makes it entirely different from it just one episode prior in the first TV series? The very end of Dragon Ball has gigantic blasts with a giant supervillain. So does the very next set of episodes when Z starts. What's wrong with the music, especially considering that the Saiyan arc still uses some DB tunes as it slowly introduces its own new score into the mix, similar to what the entire series does over the full 444-episode (153 + 291) run?

I think it's because of the first version he was exposed to, which I assume is the FUNi dub with the Faulconer score. A lot of DB fans in the U.S. seem to be apt to have strong feelings for FUNi's hardcore rendition of DeeBeeZee and want to differentiate it from the more adventure-centered prior series, even though such hardcore tone is not present in the original version. As you said, actually, there is not that apparent border between the two series, which, needless to say, are treated as one long serial in the original manga. I guess the same goes for the original DB. He likes Kikuchi's music in it because it was the first score he was exposed to. If there had been FUNi's DB dub with a replacement score, he would have preferred it and despised the Kikuchi score for whatever reason.

Sorry if I'm making blind assumptions, but I think this applies to a lot of fans there. I don't blame themselves for that, though. I might have been the same if I were born in the U.S.

[Black_Liger]

1: Takaki, his take on dbz is intense, I would have loved for him to score dbz kai. He would have been much better than Sumitomo I should think. His style is my favorite, I would love for him to return one day and kick ass!. Not to mention his score is the one that resembles more the "dragon ball feel" compared to yamamoto and sumitomo.

2:Kikuchi, Don't like the placement on Kai ONE BIT, but His work for db and dbz is top notch, many motifs, many new scores and themes per saga, the guy, even though I prefer yamamoto's and sumitomo's (When he does well) style deserves admiration, his dedication for db is apparent with +200 tracks for just Dragon Ball Z. The only reason he's not number 1 for me is because I like Takaki's more GRAND and emotional style of composing.

3:Sumitomo, He can do really well... sometimes, his work ranges from GREAT, to ok. I don't think he deserves the hate he always gets for every little thing, his more grandiose orchestral works are top quality and really GREAT. But his score seems limited. However I still hope for great things.

3:Tokunaga, the guy handles Dan dan themes like a REAL GENIUS, some of his score seems bland due to the low quality of the samples he uses (I think most of the time he doesn't use real orchestra, or maybe really weird mastering) but most of his stuff is really good and sounds like classic rpg material, he's great.

4:Bryan Tyler, Kinda weird nobody brought him up, yes, he's the composer from Dragon Ball Evolution, and quite frankly, the music is the best aspect of the movie, the movie has a kickass main motif, frantic battle themes, and CHOIR!. And the soundtrack has an asian flre to it. He was perfect for the movie.

5:Yamamoto, plagiarism EVERYWHERE, but I really like his take, even though I like his Kai work, I put him here because of his orchestral in the games, specially the gokuden games. Man... whatever happened to you Yamamoto.

6: Faulconer Productions, Don't like it as actual score for the series, but some tracks are great, however it really fit Legacy of Goku games and that certainly is a plus!.

[EXBadguy]

Sorry if I'm making blind assumptions, but I think this applies to a lot of fans there. I don't blame themselves for that, though. I might have been the same if I were born in the U.S.

Doesn't apply to me on bit. And that's a stupid assumption if you ask me, no offence. Because I would've liked Kikuchi's Z work, like most of you, WHO HAS HEARD THE DUB MUSIC FIRST! Anyway, for me, when I first saw Z, Falconer, nor the Funi dub itself wasn't the first one I was exposed to. Sure, people may not remember it as much, neither do I, but I just wanted to refute to that. And a few movies I watched them in JP first like M5&6 and the Future Trunks special. Then I realized I liked the replacement dub score and the so-called "unofficial" rock music better because, to me, it fitted the atmosphere and the action going on. Again, for the JP version, I wished Toei had chose a different composer to differentiate from the show.

And I don't care if it's one big serialization. Do you see the anime version of Naruto Shippuden with the same soundtrack as part 1? Nope! If it's a sequel, they should change things up a bit, and music is a big one.

[VegettoEX]

And I don't care if it's one big serialization. Do you see the anime version of Naruto Shippuden with the same soundtrack as part 1? Nope! If it's a sequel, they should change things up a bit, and music is a big one.

I don't know. Is it / does it? Did the composer change? (Looking it up, yeah, seems like it went from Toshio Masuda to Yasuharu Takanashi...?)

Because it's exactly the same case: it's just one story with a completely arbitrary/artificial distinction made for branding purposes in the TV series. In my opinion, it should consistently flow through itself as one piece of singular art from a responsible creative visionary.

Of course, that can't be the case with anime as it's just a throwaway product meant to advertise the manga and the rest of the merchandise, but I live in a dream world.

There's a way to do it: see the Majin Buu arc of DBZ. It's still Kikuchi, but DBZ 199 -> 200 is just as much a transition in music as DB 153 -> DBZ 1 was. There are some carry-over pieces, but a swap in opening/ending (with motifs that they get integrated into the general score), pulling more pieces from the on-going movies, and refreshing the rest of the score - yet still with the same composer and in the same style with the same kind of respect for the source material - is what I think the ideal way to handle it would be.

And FUNimation's English dub never had that. Never mind voices, there's never been consistency in music for anything. When I talk about their dub and what I think it's missing, it's that long-tail creative vision. Watson just threw shit at the wall to see what would stick, and fandom got left with haphazard, disparate products with next to no consistency throughout its entire run.

That's such a huge loss. I feel so awful for English dub fans in that regard. You're missing out on such an important thread that ties the whole continuum together. That's terrible.

[EXBadguy]

A "huge loss" for the English fans? That's like saying the JP fans has a huge loss for not listening to the other composers and not giving them a chance to hear their music, deciding if they like them or not. Unlike many english fans, I gave Kikuchi a chance, and it turned out negative for me. The English fans can miss that "loss" if they wanted to, just like the JP fans missing out on the other composers.

And I for one don't even care about source material. If I see a fight scene and the music fits the scene to my liking, and it beats the original, then hell with it, why should people care? Do you see me talking down on people for liking Kikuchi? NO!

[VegettoEX]

I've seen you use the word "slander" twice in the last five minutes (once here, and once about "Heroes"). To quote someone else recently, I don't think that word means what you think it means... or at the very least, you're twisting it to fit your vision of a conversation that isn't actually happening. I wouldn't be tossing out "slander" as the word choice when you're simultaneously complaining about people simply not liking new transformations in "Heroes" and then trotting out the "boring trumpets" line.

I'm all for the reinterpretation of artistic works (see: Kai and my experience with it), but English dub fans never even had a chance to experience that original vision in the first place. Until Kai came along, they didn't have a version of DBZ they could watch with an accurate score and an accurate translation. I say let them experience that first before tossing "HEY KIDS! WHIZ BAM NEW!" as the "alternate choice"... because it was never an "alternate" choice to begin with, and for the longest time, there wasn't even the original Japanese version widely available for them to fall back on either.

For the record, we have gotten other composers for the Japanese language track (and look how that turned out...), but only after that singular creative vision was constructed. Let the show be the show before it gets turned into something else.

[Valerius Dover]

I'll have a more complete opinion once I've actually seen all these multiple versions, but for now, I'm currently in Season 9 of Z, using the Funimation Dub with the US score out of choice. So, this is an incomplete opinion based only on what I've heard so far.

Shunsuke Kikuchi (I have heard his work in all 153 Episodes of Dragon Ball and DB Movies 1-3)
-This score is of course a classic, with many memorable tracks and some use of leitmotif as well. I didn't find the score for Movie 3 as memorable as the rest, though.

Akihito Tokunaga (I have heard his work in DB Movie 4)
-This score is a bit more modernized, but has a good sound to it overall. My only problem is that it has a bit too much silence here.

Nathan Johnson (I have heard his work in the first 67 Episodes of Dragon Ball Z)
-It's no secret that this score isn't as memorable overall, but I could still easily recognize the style and several handfuls of tracks. The wall-to-wall music works here due to the score being more subtle most of the time. It has a somewhat dark tone a lot of the time.

Bruce Faulconer, Mike Smith, Scott Morgan, and Julius Dobos (I have heard their work so far in Dragon Ball Z Episodes 68 and counting)
-I'm enjoying their work in the Z series, with plenty of memorable and well done tracks which fit the onscreen action very well, at least coming from someone who hasn't seen the original yet. I can easily see why people wouldn't like the wall-to-wall music, but as a gamer, I'm used to this quite a lot, so it doesn't bug me.

Still have yet to finish Z, see the Specials and Movies, GT, Kai, and then repeat in Japanese.

[Videlphia76ers]

The Faulconer score completely shifts the style of the series. When watching the uncut version of Z with the original japanese music, the more dramatic/action scenes don't quite hit as hard. Some of my friends said Bruce F's score is like a low budget Aphex Twin, but for about half of the series there's a real charm to it.

If we're strictly speaking Z it's
Faulconer at 1
Whoever scored Kai (sorry) at 2 (more for the song placement than the music itself)
And everyone else at 3

[Naruto6583]

Well in all honesty Its kinda hard for me to rank which one is better I like them all but if I had to it would be

Kenji Yamamoto: For me it was from growing up with the Budokai trilogy always keeping me pumped for the next battle. I was really excited to see what he would bring for kai but I do not condone what he did with plagiarizing his songs. On a side note I've listened to some of his early video game works and I love them.
Norihito Sumitomo: Had no idea who he was till battle of gods so I went in with fresh ears and boy was I not disappointed. His music captured to me what modern dbz sounds like and in my opinion (you guys may think differently) dbz is they only anime I know that is palatable with any music. His work for kai is kinda meh but that's mostly due to his budget
Hiroshi Takaki: His score showed just how amazing a cinematic score could be for dragon ball. In a way he was a successor to yamamoto and I wouldn't have minded him coming back for kai. But sadly all we have from him dbz wise is two ova's and a videogame
Shunsuke Kikuchi: I wasn't exposed to his music until I watched the original dragon ball on toonami a long time ago. At the time I didn't think much of it but a few years later I started branching out with different dubs and I found out how much I love kikuchi. I hate how his score was handled in kai 1.0
Shuki Levy: Not much to say other than hearing it on toonami as a kid. It was in a way the first English score we got for z in terms of orchestra.
Akihito Tokunaga: Absolutely adore his work and I was annoyed to find out that his work was never released outside of path to power
Bruce Faulconer: Back in the day I really loved his score I still do now but at times I cringe at the wall to wall music
Nathan Johnson: Like levy I don't have much to say I like a few of his tracks though
Mark Menza: Truly enjoyed his work in the movies in gt however the music sounded mostly the same
BT2 Team: One of my favorite OST's since yamamoto's compositions truly a fantastic score
Toshiyuki Kishi: I wasn't crazy about his work in BT3 which is sad. I did like his TTT and RB 1 OST
Gerald Berring: Once again not much to say still the score was pretty decent

[Thanos]

Speaking as someone who was initially exposed to the Dragon Hardcore Ball Z X-TREME version of things, I happen to take Kikuchi's work as my score of choice. I gave the series a run-through when it aired on Toonami, and then once the Orange Bricks dropped (quite a gap of time, I realize this ) I watched it subtitled, and that really won me over with the Kikuchi score. To me, the authenticity bled through; and, having already watched the original Dragon Ball series on Toonami as well, it just made a lot more sense to me as the next thing over from that than jumping from bouncy, 80's martial arts parody soundtrack that FUNi kept for DB to the cheap, mid-90's hard techno business that Faulconer had going on with DBZ. It kind of just hit me in the face like, "Well shit, this is how it's supposed to segue into that portion of the series."

Certainly DBZ represented a shift to focusing more on action and aliens, but the shift wasn't at all very apparent until later on into the Namek arc or so. The art style too, was by and large unchanged from the tail-end of Dragon Ball, and its sense of humor remained largely intact throughout DBZ's run. Prefer Faulconer's music? Great. But it simply does not represent DBZ in any legitimate capacity.

[dbboxkaifan]

Dragon Ball:
- Shunsuke Kikuchi

Dragon Ball Z:
- Shunsuke Kikuchi > Shuki Levy > Faulconer

Dragon Ball GT:
- Akihito Tokunaga > Menza

Dragon Ball Kai:
- Kenji Yamamoto > Norihito Sumitomo > Shunsuke Kikuchi

Games:
- Kenji Yamamoto > Shunsuke Kikuchi > Tenkaichi 2 Music Team > Hiroshi Takaki > Battle of Z Team > Toshiyuki Kishi

The only reason why Kikuchi's music is awful in Kai is because it's overly repetitive by using the same BGMs constantly and as such there's just no variety at all but aside that I love Kikuchi's tunes (I wish he'd have composed for GT too).

Kenji Yamamoto gave Kai a fresh modern cinematic feeling with his music but then once it got replaced by the unfortunate Kikuchi batch they ruined it and the games are that great too thanks to Yamamoto.

Yamamoto's one of the best composers Dragon Ball has ever gotten and he won't be forgotten for the marvellous music he gave us.

[EXBadguy]

Speaking as someone who was initially exposed to the Dragon Hardcore Ball Z X-TREME version of things, I happen to take Kikuchi's work as my score of choice. I gave the series a run-through when it aired on Toonami, and then once the Orange Bricks dropped (quite a gap of time, I realize this ) I watched it subtitled, and that really won me over with the Kikuchi score. To me, the authenticity bled through; and, having already watched the original Dragon Ball series on Toonami as well, it just made a lot more sense to me as the next thing over from that than jumping from bouncy, 80's martial arts parody soundtrack that FUNi kept for DB to the cheap, mid-90's hard techno business that Faulconer had going on with DBZ. It kind of just hit me in the face like, "Well shit, this is how it's supposed to segue into that portion of the series."

Certainly DBZ represented a shift to focusing more on action and aliens, but the shift wasn't at all very apparent until later on into the Namek arc or so. The art style too, was by and large unchanged from the tail-end of Dragon Ball, and its sense of humor remained largely intact throughout DBZ's run. Prefer Faulconer's music? Great. But it simply does not represent DBZ in any legitimate capacity.

Ya see Kei17, another one who was exposed to their own version first before they liked the original more!

[Lord Beerus]

Hmm... this is tougher than I thought...

When I was young, I loved Faulconer's soundtrack. But looking at back it, it's very momentous. Although there are still a few good track that have aged well.

Kikuchi's score is epic in every sense. It just fits the tone of Dragon Ball flawlessly.

Yammamoto. Oh God. I'm so conflicted. His score for the Budokai series are just timeless classics. And his score for Kai was bloody terrific. Then my image of him crumbled in the light of the plagiarism scandal. And it's made even worse considering just how much he plagiarized. And who he plagiarized from. Seriously, when I found out he plagiarized from freakin Metallica, that crossed the line.

Suitomo proved with Battle Of Gods he can do an epic score and has great range. But he certainly does need more time. But so far he's been very good with Kai... when Toei actually give him a good budget.

Nathan Johnson and Mark Menza are pretty the same... average. I feel as though the two of them tried to add flavor and and a new twist to Z, the movies and GT, but failed to capture the spirit of Dragon Ball at the same time. But like Faulconer, a few of their tracks are redeemable have great replay value.

Akihito Tokunaga's score almost made GT bearable... almost.

Hiroshi Takaki is brief but really damn good.

The Budokai Tenkaichi/Raging Blast composers are pretty much like Faulconer, Menza and Johnson, it's very momentous.

My over rank:
1. Shunsuke Kikuchi
2. Norihito Suitomo
3. Hiroshi Takaki
4. Akihito Tokunaga
5. Bruce Faulconer
6. Nathan Johnson
7. Mark Menza
8. Budokai Tenkaichi/Raging Blast composers
9. Kenji Yammamoto (Plagiarism is unforgivable)

[dbboxkaifan]

My over rank:
1. Shunsuke Kikuchi
2. Norihito Suitomo
3. Hiroshi Takaki
4. Akihito Tokunaga
5. Bruce Faulconer
6. Nathan Johnson
7. Mark Menza
8. Budokai Tenkaichi/Raging Blast composers
9. Kenji Yammamoto (Plagiarism is unforgivable)

This list is very flawed because some of these Dragon Ball composers have committed plagiarism and that's not only Yamamoto but Kikuchi, Sumitomo and the Faulconer Team. Heh, I love how people like to shit on Yamamoto forgetting that he wasn't the only one doing so.

Faulconer's Super Boo Theme is pretty much a rip-off from System of a Down's Marmalade but people still love it and disregard that they plagiarised due to being a great track as well as Kikuchi's Bond-fied tracks.

Musicians are bound to copy from each other because it ends up having similarities just like Nintendo X Sega X Sony X Microsoft copying each others' ideas to improve on something the other company had before.

By the way, Tenkaichi 2's Team is far better than Kishi so there's no reason for them to be on the 9th they should actually be between the 4th or 5th place.