Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

[FoolsGil]

Oh yeah. That totally happened. Why didn't the Vargas DQ Eliem again?

[Tzigi]

Yeah most of the specials were pretty bad but their only purpose seems to be filler most of the time. There's no point in showing Cell killing the Z fighters one-by-one or Raditz fighting Tenshinhan and Yamcha for half the special. It's there to give the main artist more time. I do think it hurts the overall quality of the comic and it might have been better to slowdown the pace to 2 pages a week with shorter specials. I'm sure if Salagir had more artists for the main story he would have shorter, more informative specials like for U1/U10. I can't really complain though since the only worthwhile thing to do would be to go to Deviantart or something, look for more artists, and recommend them. It would be pretty hard to find someone as good as Asura or Gogeta Jr. The only artists I could think of who are comparable have their own stories they're working on.

When I met Salagir, I asked him about the specials and the truth is a bit different from what we assumed:
- sure, the specials buy time for the main artist to draw the tournament but they actually take much more time from the rest of the crew so:
- the specials are done because the DBM crew thinks that certain stories need to be told and because certain artist want to draw certain stories and
- that's the problem with stories in the specials - they aren't created 100% by Salagir. Sure, he approves them but the artists have quite a bit of freedom themselves. I'll give you an example: there was a cartoonist who adored Broly, another one who didn't care about DB but loved Tapion, another one who had started a special chapter without contacting Salagir and only later agreed to change the story to fir DBM, but still wanted to keep an already-drawn longish fight between the Saiyan that's terrorrising the Earth and its defenders in his chapter, yet another one who wanted to show in all detail and in full colour how Cell conquered the Earth*. And I'm only talking about the specials that have been published.
- Another problem (actually the main one) is that the artists disappear. There are many specials that have been only partially done and never finished - just because the artist has stopped responding to any emails. There are even such pages waiting to be done by some people from this very forum (who are still active and still post significant amounts of art). Many of those "more informative specials" are waiting for the artist to finish them.
- About 2 pages per week: Salagir is a stark believer in keeping the readers coming back to a site. That's why he keeps uploading at least 3 pages per week. And, after having heard his presentation on how he makes webcomics I've got to say I agree with this policy.

____
* Guess which artist is which

[ChahikoDBZ]

Ugh still no Vegeta reaction to being back alive.

[rereboy]

Oh yeah. That totally happened. Why didn't the Vargas DQ Eliem again?

Because Eliem wasn't trying to hit the audience. Its the Vargas' fault that their barrier didn't protect the audience. There have been other instances where attacks would have hit the audience but were stopped by the barrier, should those fighters also be disqualified? After all, its the same situation, the only difference was the efficiency of the barrier.

A competant artist makes sure that heights are consistent, that's why height charts exist during the development stage.

Toriyama is not a competent artist?

I'm saying he is. Albeit, he does love to change his style a lot once he finished the Saiyan arc (till this day); like drastically. But he's pretty consistent with things like this. Even the animators at Toei were fascinated by Toriyama's simple yet detailed art. It's the little things that count too!

His heights weren't that consistent, that's why I commented.

[Attitudefan]

Another problem (actually the main one) is that the artists disappear. There are many specials that have been only partially done and never finished - just because the artist has stopped responding to any emails. There are even such pages waiting to be done by some people from this very forum (who are still active and still post significant amounts of art). Many of those "more informative specials" are waiting for the artist to finish them.

Huh... I wonder why they stop responding especially if they still have time to do art. I get that doing other people's work can not be as rewarding as making your own art in your own vision, but sometimes one should stick to a promise...

[FoolsGil]

When I met Salagir, I asked him about the specials and the truth is a bit different from what we assumed:
- sure, the specials buy time for the main artist to draw the tournament but they actually take much more time from the rest of the crew so:
- the specials are done because the DBM crew thinks that certain stories need to be told and because certain artist want to draw certain stories and
- that's the problem with stories in the specials - they aren't created 100% by Salagir. Sure, he approves them but the artists have quite a bit of freedom themselves. I'll give you an example: there was a cartoonist who adored Broly, another one who didn't care about DB but loved Tapion, another one who had started a special chapter without contacting Salagir and only later agreed to change the story to fir DBM, but still wanted to keep an already-drawn longish fight between the Saiyan that's terrorrising the Earth and its defenders in his chapter, yet another one who wanted to show in all detail and in full colour how Cell conquered the Earth. And I'm only talking about the specials that have been published.

That's actually a shame. Chances are the artists are working for free or close to free, so Saligir can't turn around and say "Your idea is stupid, draw what I deem necessary or I'll pay someone else to." leaving them to post their dream. And that means the artist of the next special finds generic villain Bojack's origin story more interesting than anything else in the world. sonuva-

I will say this. I actually liked the way the Broly special chapters were drawn and written. They were also short and not back to back, so that helped.

- About 2 pages per week: Salagir is a stark believer in keeping the readers coming back to a site. That's why he keeps uploading at least 3 pages per week. And, after having heard his presentation on how he makes webcomics I've got to say I agree with this policy.

DBM has been going on for years, perhaps when starting out, maybe it was something to fear (though comics with one week updates still have large fanbases) but by this time I find it hard to believe anyone would drop the comic because one update is dropped. Seems more like people would drop the comic because of uninteresting specials*coughbojackcoughcough*and return when the main story is back up.

[Scarz]

I can't (or won't?) say much about my DBM special, but I want to give my two cents on the subject. When I contacted Salagir about wanting to draw a special, I only offered a few suggestions before he wrote final script. I'm also guilty of being that "slow" kind of artist and took longer than expected to complete my special. At the time I was given the script to draw, I wasn't expecting the crazy roadblock that was life to put a huge dent in my schedule. So, I only had enough time to sketch it the comic and ink only about the first four or five pages. Salagir has given the rest of the sketches off to another good inker. I offered to sketch the special for free, because I'm a huge fan of the comic and was more than happy to contribute to it any way I can.

From my own experience working with folks on large projects (outside of DB), I can tell you there's a lot of fickle artists out there. Some even completely disappear in a middle of the project without warning. I can't even tell you how many times I got an email or phone call from folks I work with asking if I can replace another artist because they' were either too slow or have just fallen off the map.

I understand the many reasons for having a break between chapters for specials. Hell, if I was updating that frequently and consistently for many years, I do would have breaks for guest artists to come in and maybe even write some stories themselves.

Hopefully, once I submit one last thing for Salagir, my special will be the one after Juliensk's Bojack story.

[RandomGuy96]

(BTW: I'm not quite sure whether I agree with you about women reaching their full height by 16 - I was an early bloomer yet I stopped growing only at 19 and most of my female friends grew well into their twenties stopping around 22-23).

You and your friends are extremely abnormal. The average age for a man's growth to be slowed to a mere few millimeters to a centimeter (on average) is 18, and men stop growing at a later date than women do. It's not impossible to have noticeable growth past that, but it is very rare.

She's half-human, half-Saiyan (and this Saiyan is a special Saiyan - a fusion)

Gohan reached his full adult height (or close to it) by 16-17, and he was a half-human/half-saiyan.

Vegeta is short (BTW: his height in the original manga is horribly inconsistent - he's almost a dwarf when he first appears and he grows to almost Goku's height by the end of the manga

He's not almost a dwarf, he is a dwarf, in both actual height and in proportions. But like I said, the height inconsistency always bugged me in the original manga too. Plus, King Vegeta was actually really tall. About 6'5 going by the anime and movies (specifically the Broly one).

. So it makes all the sense in the world for Bra in DBM not to have reached her full height by this point.

Tell that to Gohan. And Trunks, for that matter. He was only 17 when he came to the past IIRC.

[Kamiccolo9]

Omygodascarzspecial

Consider my interest piqued.

[Regarder]

the specials are done because the DBM crew thinks that certain stories need to be told

This is so strange to me, because it seems like the vast majority of the specials didn't reveal any new information that wasn't already implicit in the concept of the particular universe, or didn't need to be elucidated on because it was obvious.

The Raichi one gave some character development, at least.

[TonyTheTiger]

- that's the problem with stories in the specials - they aren't created 100% by Salagir. Sure, he approves them but the artists have quite a bit of freedom themselves. I'll give you an example: there was a cartoonist who adored Broly, another one who didn't care about DB but loved Tapion, another one who had started a special chapter without contacting Salagir and only later agreed to change the story to fir DBM, but still wanted to keep an already-drawn longish fight between the Saiyan that's terrorrising the Earth and its defenders in his chapter, yet another one who wanted to show in all detail and in full colour how Cell conquered the Earth*. And I'm only talking about the specials that have been published.

That's a management problem right there. I think the question is whether Salagir wants to be a writer or an editor/project manager. Those are two very different jobs. Writers are notoriously egocentric, at least to the extent their work is at issue. They want to tell the stories they want to tell and write them the way they think works the best. But when a lot of different people are working on a single project, it can help to have a single centralized "voice" present to maintain consistency and quality control. It requires a careful touch, sure. Overzealous editors can strangle good writers and hurt the product. But in any team effort, it helps to have someone who is the "boss" and is entrusted with the authority to say no without inciting a mutiny.

I will say this. While DBM has not been perfect by any stretch, I greatly respect Salagir's ability to actually keep it going for so long with a consistent release schedule and maintain enough quality to at least be worth a read even to people who openly criticize it. That's no small accomplishment considering how much abysmal fan fiction there is out there and how many projects as ambitious as DBM inevitably vanish into the ether. I will say that, taking DBM as a whole, Salagir has done a good job. Definitely room for improvement but DBM is not a failure by any reasonable measuring stick. And, shit, considering some of the official material we've gotten out of Dragon Ball recently like Episode of Bardock, DBM might actually be a step up.

[ParkerAL]

Thank you for sharing your fascinating insight on the specials, Tzigi. Your account of the writing process behind them goes a long way towards explaining their inherent oddness. From now on, I'll try to refrain from grumbling too loudly about them, especially since I'm an aspiring amateur comic artist myself.

And, shit, considering some of the official material we've gotten out of Dragon Ball recently like Episode of Bardock, DBM might actually be a step up.

Episode of Bardock's only real flaw is that it starred Bardock. Substitute an actual ancient Saiyan in his place, and it would have provided welcome insight into the the Super Saiyan legend and Freeza's ancestry. Unfortunately, fans will always mock it for subjugating Bardock to Boba Fett Syndrome.

[rereboy]

This is so strange to me, because it seems like the vast majority of the specials didn't reveal any new information that wasn't already implicit in the concept of the particular universe, or didn't need to be elucidated on because it was obvious.

The Raichi one gave some character development, at least.

I honestly think that's just Salagir attempting to interest people in the specials. The truth is, if there were no problems in releasing the main chapters in a fast schedule, there would be no specials.

[Skar]

When I met Salagir, I asked him about the specials and the truth is a bit different from what we assumed:
- sure, the specials buy time for the main artist to draw the tournament but they actually take much more time from the rest of the crew so:
- the specials are done because the DBM crew thinks that certain stories need to be told and because certain artist want to draw certain stories and
- that's the problem with stories in the specials - they aren't created 100% by Salagir. Sure, he approves them but the artists have quite a bit of freedom themselves. I'll give you an example: there was a cartoonist who adored Broly, another one who didn't care about DB but loved Tapion, another one who had started a special chapter without contacting Salagir and only later agreed to change the story to fir DBM, but still wanted to keep an already-drawn longish fight between the Saiyan that's terrorrising the Earth and its defenders in his chapter, yet another one who wanted to show in all detail and in full colour how Cell conquered the Earth*. And I'm only talking about the specials that have been published.
- Another problem (actually the main one) is that the artists disappear. There are many specials that have been only partially done and never finished - just because the artist has stopped responding to any emails. There are even such pages waiting to be done by some people from this very forum (who are still active and still post significant amounts of art). Many of those "more informative specials" are waiting for the artist to finish them.
- About 2 pages per week: Salagir is a stark believer in keeping the readers coming back to a site. That's why he keeps uploading at least 3 pages per week. And, after having heard his presentation on how he makes webcomics I've got to say I agree with this policy.

____
* Guess which artist is which

I see thanks for clarification. I didn't realize how much work went in to organizing and working with all these artists. I can understand how many specials were never completed since unfortunately that happened to some really good fan comics. I know off the top of my head that Who Wants To be A Superhero, Universe F, and Dragonball RN were some great comics that are either going through a really hiatus or cancelled.

You also answered my other concern about specials. I felt that many of them were out of place or bad timing when they were presented. The Future Majin special was released when all the contestants of U12, 14, and 15 were already out of the tournament besides #18. There's another Broly special planned when Broly himself hasn't been a part of the tournament for years. Now a special for Bojack even though everyone in his universe has already lost. There's U9 and U19 who no longer have any contestants competing yet never had a special for their universes. I understand now that it would be difficult to plan out the specials since so many of them are incomplete. I just hope the future specials at least pertain to the tournament or characters who have participated. I didn't really enjoy the Future Majin chapter since it didn't have anything to do with the tournament and featured a character who was already dead. It could've easily been explained that Babidi came to Earth, didn't sense any worthwhile energy, and left instead of Gohan somehow defeating Dabura and never telling Trunks about this incredibly powerful guy he defeated. The strongest villain Gohan encountered that could be sensed was Frieza so I think he'd remember someone like 10-20x stronger than him.

[King Bardock]

[SSJ God Gogeta]

.......Ha

[FoolsGil]

ahhhhh, I see what you did there Trunks.

[KentalSSJ6]

Obvious GT reference is obvious.

[TrunksTrevelyan0064]

That was funny Trunks, but your Alternate Future version is still cooler. And that was my lame attempt at trying to reference AF.

[Marco Polo]

Why would they scatter around the universe? Are these Black Star Dragon Balls?