Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[DBZGTKOSDH]

According to who? Certainly not anyone in any official capacity, given that Freeza and Goku were listed with the exact same gap proportional gap.

According to the manga. Yamcha was slightly lower than 1500, and he defeated the Saibaman in a few seconds, without getting a single hit, and to the point that the Saibaman got so desperate that he played dead & blew himself up.

As for Goku vs Freeza, we don't know if SS Goku was at 100% against Freeza.

Certainly not Toriyama himself, as he thinks power levels of 85 and 100 can have a really good fight.

What exactly are you talking about there?

BTW, Raditz's 1,500 number was printed in the same Weekly Jump issue that had the Goku-Vegeta beam struggle. Since Toriyama was handing out memos containing power statements to the anime staff at this time, I highly doubt he'd just let that page be put there if the numbers were wrong. It's very likely that he's the one who put them there.

If these were Toriyama's numbers, don't you think that Toriyama's name would be written all over the place? And don't you think that every BP on the list would be included in the Daizenshuu if these really came from Toriyama?

He landed tons of hits, in the form of those ki blasts. Equals or even inferiors can totally critically damage their opponents at a good opportunity. Remember Piccolo vs Goku? Or Cell vs Gohan?

We have no idea how strong Vegeta's multiple ki blasts are individually.

(BTW, I won't continue our old debate in the VS thread (I didn't have Internet this past month because I moved, which is why I was absent from the forums), since a) it was many pages back, and b) we will probably start talking about that in this thread when I get to Boo arc.)

I'm surprised you would assign levels for the guys on Kaio's planet, that fits with what see in the anime, rather than something which could be taken from the manga.

The manga says absolutely nothing about them in the manga. However, it does say a few things about Piccolo, and he sounds like he got a really huge boost, so I don't see why the Earthlings wouldn't have gotten a similar boost.

[RandomGuy96]

According to the manga. Yamcha was slightly lower than 1500, and he defeated the Saibaman in a few seconds, without getting a single hit, and to the point that the Saibaman got so desperate that he played dead & blew himself up.

He landed a Kamehameha on the Saibaman while it was off guard using an afterimage trick. That's not really a feat of great strength.

As for Goku vs Freeza, we don't know if SS Goku was at 100% against Freeza.

Not this again. There is literally no reason to think that he wasn't. He obviously received an extra jolt because he could, you know, stand, and the images clearly depicted SS Goku during the fight with Freeza. It was not a hypothetical; it literally just put the number 150,000,000 under a picture of Goku during the Freeza fight, which we know because he has the exact same ripped clothing and wounds. These books didn't give a non-existent level that had no relevance just to confuse us, and then not tell us for no reason.

What exactly are you talking about there?

Toriyama stating that SSG Goku is a 6 and Beerus is a 10, and that Beerus used 70% of his power to fight SSG Goku.

If these were Toriyama's numbers, don't you think that Toriyama's name would be written all over the place? And don't you think that every BP on the list would be included in the Daizenshuu if these really came from Toriyama?

Toriyama makes mistakes, and he's not shy about admitting it. Even Vegeta's 20,000, which came from the actual manga itself, was retconned to 30,000 in the guidebooks, and appropriately changed in subsequent issues. Levels like Kami's 220 were contradictory, so they were dropped. Do you seriously think that Toriyama would just let those levels be put in the back of the same issue that included in the climax of the Saiyan arc without looking them over once when, at the same time, he cared enough about the power scaling to inform the anime makers of the small difference between a Saibaman and Raditz?

We have no idea how strong Vegeta's multiple ki blasts are individually.

I'm not sure how that matters? You just claimed that Vegeta didn't land many hits, when clearly he did, in the forms of dozens of ki blasts. Moving the goal posts much?

The fight was small, and Vegeta didn't land many hits on Zarbon, so I don't see a weaker Vegeta having the strength to do that much to him.

Not to mention that there's really no reason for multiple full force blasts like that to not do significant damage to someone equal to Vegeta when they're off guard, when even just one of Cell's generic ki blasts heavily damaged someone stronger than him in a similar position.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

He landed a Kamehameha on the Saibaman while it was off guard using an afterimage trick. That's not really a feat of great strength.

The Saibaiman literally couldn't do shit, and the fact that Yamcha could take the Saibaiman off-guard in the middle of their fight is a feat of great strength, or rather, great speed. Goku used a Super Kamehameha on Piccolo, not a quick normal Kamehameha, and Piccolo wasn't forced to kill himself in order to kill Goku.

There is literally no reason to think that he wasn't.

Except that Goku could barely stand before the transformation. The transformation obviously restored most of his power, but nothing in the manga says that he is at full power.

It was not a hypothetical; it literally just put the number 150,000,000 under a picture of Goku during the Freeza fight, which we know because he has the exact same ripped clothing and wounds. These books didn't give a non-existent level that had no relevance just to confuse us, and then not tell us for no reason.

These books also don't give numbers for damaged fighters. The image means nothing, because we don't have any other picture of that Goku.

Toriyama stating that SSG Goku is a 6 and Beerus is a 10, and that Beerus used 70% of his power to fight SSG Goku.

Which means that this was actually a 6 vs 7, not a 6 vs 10.

Do you seriously think that Toriyama would just let those levels be put in the back of the same issue that included in the climax of the Saiyan arc without looking them over once when, at the same time, he cared enough about the power scaling to inform the anime makers of the small difference between a Saibaman and Raditz?

Yes, because Toriyama isn't supervising the whole Shounen Jump issue that has his manga, he justs sends his manga (which by itself is a lot of work), and Shueisha does the rest. If these are really Toriyama's numbers, we would most likely know it.

I'm not sure how that matters? You just claimed that Vegeta didn't land many hits, when clearly he did, in the forms of dozens of ki blasts. Moving the goal posts much?

I was having hand-in-hand combat in my mind when I said that Vegeta didn't land many hits, and I don't count the ki blasts because each of them could be weaker than a punch.

Not to mention that there's really no reason for multiple full force blasts like that to not do significant damage to someone equal to Vegeta when they're off guard, when even just one of Cell's generic ki blasts heavily damaged someone stronger than him in a similar position.

It's not similar at all. I doubt that the fighters put the same strength in the rapid-fire ki blasts like they do in one ki blast.

[RandomGuy96]

The Saibaiman literally couldn't do shit, and the fact that Yamcha could take the Saibaiman off-guard in the middle of their fight is a feat of great strength, or rather, great speed. Goku used a Super Kamehameha on Piccolo, not a quick normal Kamehameha, and Piccolo wasn't forced to kill himself in order to kill Goku.

No, he was just used an afterimage. You can even take someone stronger than you off guard if you use one. Piccolo was apparently ridiculously durable, because we never see an equal just tank an attack like that again. Yamcha was strong enough that his Kamehameha (an amplified attack, mind you), when delivered to an off guard Saibaman, could almost do significant damage, but not really. That doesn't say "Yamcha is dimensions above the Saibaman".

Except that Goku could barely stand before the transformation. The transformation obviously restored most of his power, but nothing in the manga says that he is at full power.

Why wouldn't he be? If it just restored some of his power, that would be noted somewhere, especially if the amount of power restored was so ludicrously arbitrary and specific. We just see him go from too weak to stand to strong enough to smash Freeza.

These books also don't give numbers for damaged fighters. The image means nothing, because we don't have any other picture of that Goku.

No, it actually matters a lot. The book literally just put the number under a picture of Goku during the Freeza fight. It's never noted anywhere that this is a hypothetical number that didn't show up and thus has no meaning. That would be mentioned somewhere if it really was true, unless you think the guidebook writers are just trying to confuse us for no reason. Also, Freeza would have to not suffer from this while Goku would for no reason, as both the manga and the guidebooks flat-out say that Freeza was at full power. Additionally, Daizenshuu 7 says that Goku during the battle with Freeza was 50 times stronger than he was in his normal state, not that he was fifty times stronger than his wounded state, so actually only like 40 times stronger.

They could have just displayed a picture of a fresh SS Goku in his Namek outfit. Or they could have put some text below explaining that this wasn't his real power. Or they could have given him two numbers. They did none of these things.

Which means that this was actually a 6 vs 7, not a 6 vs 10.

Yes. And? Toriyama considers 85 vs 100 to be a good fight (6 is 85.7% of 7). This comes from the mouth of the author himself. Yet 80 vs 100 can't even be a one-sided fight?

Yes, because Toriyama isn't supervising the whole Shounen Jump issue that has his manga, he justs sends his manga (which by itself is a lot of work), and Shueisha does the rest. If these are really Toriyama's numbers, we would most likely know it.

Yet, he does bother supervising the anime staff on a more minor issue relating to power scaling. But he doesn't care at all about Shueisha getting every single number wrong (except one) in his actual manga.

I was having hand-in-hand combat in my mind when I said that Vegeta didn't land many hits, and I don't count the ki blasts because each of them could be weaker than a punch.

A ki blast is a hit. It would be up to you to prove that ki blasts are weaker than punches, when they've never been portrayed as such (by contrast, that technique Vegeta used is said to be very powerful when Goku uses it at the Cell Games).

It's not similar at all. I doubt that the fighters put the same strength in the rapid-fire ki blasts like they do in one ki blast.

It was one generic ki blast meant to kill a shrimp. Why would Cell put so much more effort into it than Vegeta put in effort to defeat someone close to him in a serious battle?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

No, he was just used an afterimage.

He didn't use an afterimage, he just dodged the Saibaiman.

Why wouldn't he be? If it just restored some of his power, that would be noted somewhere, especially if the amount of power restored was so ludicrously arbitrary and specific. We just see him go from too weak to stand to strong enough to smash Freeza.

No, it actually matters a lot. The book literally just put the number under a picture of Goku during the Freeza fight. It's never noted anywhere that this is a hypothetical number that didn't show up and thus has no meaning. That would be mentioned somewhere if it really was true, unless you think the guidebook writers are just trying to confuse us for no reason. Also, Freeza would have to not suffer from this while Goku would for no reason, as both the manga and the guidebooks flat-out say that Freeza was at full power. Additionally, Daizenshuu 7 says that Goku during the battle with Freeza was 50 times stronger than he was in his normal state, not that he was fifty times stronger than his wounded state, so actually only like 40 times stronger.

They could have just displayed a picture of a fresh SS Goku in his Namek outfit. Or they could have put some text below explaining that this wasn't his real power. Or they could have given him two numbers. They did none of these things.

Perhaps Goku's ki was fully restored, but his damaged body held him back a little. His damage wasn't healed after all.

Or, Freeza could fight better than his BP because his big body gave him greater physical strength & speed.

Or, the numbers are wrong. But I don't feel like changing them.

Yes. And? Toriyama considers 85 vs 100 to be a good fight (6 is 85.7% of 7). This comes from the mouth of the author himself. Yet 80 vs 100 can't even be a one-sided fight?

Yes, because there is a 5% difference, and the Goku vs Beerus fight was a good, yet one-sided fight. In the end of the battle Goku was out of energy & out of breath, with damaged body & clothes, and could barely stand, while Beerus was perfectly fine. That wasn't a fight between rivaling strength, and even Goku said that there was a huge gap in their powers, and he never gave any indication that he knew that Beerus was holding back.

Yet, he does bother supervising the anime staff on a more minor issue relating to power scaling.

What's that?

But he doesn't care at all about Shueisha getting every single number wrong (except one) in his actual manga.

We don't even know if they asked him about these. For all we know, he may had left all the job to Shueisha because he was too busy with the manga, so he didn't bother going back to the manga and checking if the numbers they have are correct.

And again, you have no proof that Toriyama had anything to do with these numbers. The fact that these were released in the same magazine with his manga means absolutely nothing.

A ki blast is a hit. It would be up to you to prove that ki blasts are weaker than punches, when they've never been portrayed as such (by contrast, that technique Vegeta used is said to be very powerful when Goku uses it at the Cell Games).

I can't prove anything here, you can't prove anything here. The way I see it, the fighter uses many weak ki blasts at once to deal a lot of damage, which is better than a single basic ki blast with more concentrated power. With the speed they are all fired, I don't thing the fighter has any time, or even stamina to concentrate that much power in every ki blast.

It was one generic ki blast meant to kill a shrimp. Why would Cell put so much more effort into it than Vegeta put in effort to defeat someone close to him in a serious battle?

He didn't. The rapid-fire ki blasts is a more powerful technique than a normal ki blast.

[Mattias_]

Well, this is the Ultimate Power Levels Guide by me. I don't speak english very well but I give you the Power Levels right now. Let's begin with the First Arc on the Manga.

01 - EMPEROR PILAF ARC:

The beggining of Dragon Ball. The Emperor Freezer kills the Saiyan survivor.

Kakarotto カカロット: 2
Bardock バーダック: 10,000
Freezer フリーザ: 530,000

Kakarot, named as Son Goku by his "father" Son Gohan, is crashed by Bulma. The first Arc begins now.

Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 30
Bulma ブルマ: 4
Kame'Sen'Nin 亀仙人: 40

Yamcha appears. The first Kamehameha in the entire series is ejecuted by Kame'Sen'nin.

Yamcha ヤムチャ: 15

Gyumao 牛魔王: 60
Chi Chi チチ: 4
Kame'Sen'Nin: 110 (100% Power)
Original Kamehameha:足からかめはめ波: 120

The Emperor Pilaf wants to kill Son Goku and his friends.

Toninjinka 兎人参化: 6

Shu シュウ: 3
Mai マイ: 3
Emperor Pilaf ピラフ: 2
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 15 (Tired)
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 150 (Ozharu)

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02 - RED RIBBON ARC:

A rival appears on Kame House.

Kuririn クリリン: less than 20 (Before 21°Tenkaichi Budokai)

The 21°Tenkaichi Budokai. Kame'Sen'Nin wins Son Goku.

Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 60
Kuririn クリリン: 40
Kame'Sen'Nin 亀仙人: 60
Yamcha ヤムチャ: 35
Bakuterian バクテリアン: 10
Ranfan ランファン: 6
Giran ギラン: 40
Namu ナム: 50

Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 13 (Tired)
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 130 (Ozharu)

Kame'Sen'Nin 亀仙人: 115 (100% Power)

Son Goku in the Muscle Tower versus the Red Ribbon Army.

Coronel Silver シルバー大佐: 8

Mettalic Commander: メタリック軍曹: 95
Murasaki Ninja ムラサキ曹長: 50
Hatchan ハッチャン: 110
Buyon ブヨン: 60
General White ホワイト将軍: 7

Dr.Slump makes a cameo in Dragon Ball series.

Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 100
General Blue ブルー将軍: 85
Aralé Norimaki 則巻アラレ: 115

Battle versus Tao Pai Pai. Training in the Korin Tower.

Bora ボラ: 80
Tao Pai Pai 桃白白: 120

KarinSama カリン: 140

Final battle versus the Red Ribbon Army.

Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 130

Coronel Violet バイオレット大佐: 6
Red Commander レッド総帥: 5
Black ブラック補佐: 18

Fortunate Teller Baba mini-Arc.

Dracula Man ドラキュラマン: 75
Suke San スケさん: 90
Mira Kun ミイラくん: 100
Akkuman アックマン: 90
Son Gohan 孫 悟飯: 130

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03 - EARTH DEMON ARC:

The 22° Tenkaichi Budokai begins.

Yamcha ヤムチャ: 100
Chaozu 餃子: 90
Kuririn クリリン: 110
Kame'Sen'Nin 亀仙人: 120

Tenshinhan 天津飯: 180
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 180

Kuririn dies. The Demon is here.

Tambourine タンバリン: 175
Yajirobe ヤジロベー: 160
Cymbal シンバル: 150

Piccolo Daimao ピッコロ大魔王: 210

Final battle againts Piccolo Daimao.

Piccolo Daimao ピッコロ大魔王: 250 (Young)
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 250 (Sacred Water)

Mr. Popo - 280
God 神: 310

The 23° Tenkaichi Budokai begins. Final battle againts Piccolo.

Yamcha ヤムチャ: 160
Kuririn クリリン: 195
Tenshinhan 天津飯: 230
Chi Chi チチ: 8
Tao Pai Pai 桃白白: 200 (Cyborg)

Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 320
Piccolo ピッコロ: 308

Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 390 (without weights)
Piccolo ピッコロ: 375 (without weights)

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04 - THE SAIYAN SAGA ARC:

The Saiyan Raditz is on the Planet Earth searchin for Kakarot, his brother.

Farmer 農家: 5
Piccolo ピッコロ: 332
Raditz ラディッツ: 1,200

Son Goku and Piccolo vs. Raditz.

Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 334
Son Gohan 孫 悟飯: 710

Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 416 (Without weights)
Piccolo ピッコロ: 408 (Without weights)

Kamehameha 足からかめはめ波: over 924
Makankosappo 魔貫光殺砲: 1,330

Son Gohan 孫 悟飯: 1,307 (Enraged)
Makankosappo 魔貫光殺砲: over 1,200

Death of Son Goku. Training of the Z Warriors.

Enma Daio 閻魔大王: 1,300
Piccolo ピッコロ: 329
Kame'Sen'Nin 亀仙人: 139
Kuririn クリリン: 206
Yamcha ヤムチャ: 177
Tenshinhan 天津飯: 250


Saiyan arrival.

Son Gohan 孫 悟飯: 981
Piccolo ピッコロ: 1,220
Kuririn クリリン: 1,083
Cultiwars 栽培マン: 1,200

Tenshinhan 天津飯: 1,830
Yamcha ヤムチャ: 1,480
Piccolo ピッコロ: 3,500
Kuririn クリリン: 1,770
Nappa ナッパ: 4,000

Masenko 龍拳: over 2,800

Yamcha, Chaozu, Tenshinhan, Piccolo and KamiSama dies on the battle againts Nappa. Son Goku is furious.

Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 5,000
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: over 8,000

Final battle for the Planet Earth.

Vegeta ベジータ: 18,000
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 16,000 (Kaioken x2)
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 24,000 (Kaioken)
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 32,400 (Kaioken x4)

Vegeta ベジータ: 7,100 (after using the Artificial Moon)
Vegeta ベジータ: 71,000 (Ozharu)
GenkiDama 元気玉: 90,000
Yajirobe ヤジロベー: 310

Vegeta ベジータ: 6,800
Genkidama 元気玉: 5,000
Vegeta ベジータ: 1,080 (After GenkiDama)
Son Gohan 孫 悟飯: 240 (Weak)
Son Gohan 孫 悟飯: 2,400 (Ozharu)

Planet Namek.

Freezer's Soldier 兵士冷凍庫: less than 1,500
Son Gohan 孫 悟飯: around 1,500
Kuririn クリリン: around 1,500

Kiwi キュイ: 18,000
Vegeta ベジータ: 24,000

Namekian warriors 戦士タイプ: 1,000
Namekian warriors 戦士タイプ: 3,000 (Max. Power)
Dodoria ドドリア: 20,000
Zarbón ザーボン: 22,000
Zarbón ザーボン: 28,000 (Transformed)


Gurd グルド: 2,000
Kuririn クリリン: around 10,000
Son Gohan 孫 悟飯: around 10,000

Vegeta ベジータ: 32,000
Reakum リクーム: 45,000

Son Goku on Planet Namek.

Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 5,000
Butta バター: 45,000
Jisu ジース: 45,000
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 90,000

Final of the Universal Empire.

Captain Ginyu ギニュー: 120,000
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 180,000 (Kaioken x2)

Nail ネイル: 42,000
Freezer フリーザ: 530,000

Capitán Ginyu ギニュー: 23,000 (Body change)

The Emperor Freezer versus Vegeta, Son Gohan, Kuririn and Piccolo.

Kuririn クリリン: over 10,000
Son Gohan 孫 悟飯: around 30,000
Vegeta ベジータ: 140,000
Freezer フリーザ: 1,060,000 (Second form)

Son Gohan 孫 悟飯: 200,000 (Zenkai + Enraged)
Piccolo ピッコロ: 1,200,000 (Fusion with Nail)
Freezer フリーザ: 1,100,000
Piccolo ピッコロ: 1,260,000 (Weak clothes)
Freezer フリーザ: 1,590,000 (Third form)
Freezer フリーザ: 2,120,000 (Final form)
Vegeta ベジータ: 1,300,000

Son Goku versus Emperor Freezer.

Freezer フリーザ: 2,300,000
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 2,200,000

Freezer フリーザ: 4,000,000 (50% Power)
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 195,000 (Weak)
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 3,900,000 (Kaiokenx20)
Spirit Bomb 元気玉: 4,300,000
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 200,000 (Weak, after using GenkiDama)

Son Goku is the legendary Super Saiyan. The Final Battle begins right now.

Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 10,000,000 (Super Saiyan)
Freezer フリーザ: 8,000,000 (100% Power)

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

THIS IS THE END. SON GOKU DIES ON NAMEK. KURIRIN, YAMCHA, CHAOZU, TENSHINHAN AND VEGETA COULDN'T REVIVE, BUT SON GOHAN AND PICCOLO ARE THE NEWEST HEROES ON THE EARTH. BUT, PRESSING BY THE EDITORS, TORIYAMA HAD TO WRITE MORE SAGAS. LET'S CONTINUE.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



05 - RED RIBBON ARMY II ARC:


A boy from the future arrives.

Freezer フリーザ: over 2,120,000
Korudo Daio コルド大王: around 2,100,000
Trunks トランクス: 180,000
Trunks トランクス: 9,000,000 (Super Saiyan)
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 208,000
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 10,400,000 (Super Saiyan)

Two androids attack the South City.

Kuririn クリリン: 14,000
Piccolo ピッコロ: 4,000,000
Yamcha ヤムチャ: 8,000
Dr. Gero Dr. ゲロ: 1,900,000
Tenshinhan 天津飯: 32,000
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 230,000

Son Gokū 孫 悟空: less than 11,500,000 (Sick)
Jinzoningen #19 人造人間19号: 1,600,000
Jinzoningen #19 人造人間19号: 1,910.000 (Absorbed ki)
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: less than 1,000,000 (Sick)
Vegeta ベジータ: 234,000
Vegeta ベジータ: 11,700,000 (Super Saiyan)

Piccolo ピッコロ: 6,000,000 (Without weights)

Android Battle.

Jinzoningen #18 人造人間18号: 12,000,000
Trunks トランクス: 225,000
Trunks トランクス: 11,250,000 (Super Saiyan)

Cell セル: less than 9,500,000
Piccolo ピッコロ: 9,500,000 (Fusion with God)

Cell absorbs Jinzoningen #17.

Jinzoningen #17 人造人間17号: 12,000,000
Piccolo ピッコロ: around 12,000,000 (Weak clothes)
Cell セル: 12,900,000
Jinzoningen #16 人造人間16号: 12,850,000

Cell セル: 25,000,000 (Semi-perfect)

Vegeta ベジータ: 520,000 (ROSAT)
Trunks トランクス: 490,000 (ROSAT)

Cell absorbs Jinzoningen #18.

Vegeta ベジータ: 26,000,000 (Super Saiyan)
Vegeta ベジータ: over 26,000,000 (Super Saiyan Max.)
Trunks トランクス: 24,500,000 (Super Saiyan)
Cell セル: 37,000,000 (Perfect form)


Final Flash ファイナルフラッシュ: around 40,000,000
Trunks トランクス: 32,000,000 (Super Saiyan Max.)
Trunks トランクス: over 32,000,000 (Super Saiyan Max. 100% Power)
Cell セル: 42,000,000

Cell Games.

Mr. Satan ミスター・サタン: 10
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 17,500,000 (Super Saiyan / Normal)
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 35,000,000 (Super Saiyan)
Cell セル: 44,000,000

Son Gohan 孫 悟飯: 39,000,000 (Super Saiyan)
Vegeta ベジータ: 640,000
Piccolo ピッコロ: 11,500,000
Trunks トランクス: 600,000

Cell Jr. セルジュニア: 34,000,000
Piccolo ピッコロ: 16,000,000 (without weights)
Vegeta ベジータ: 32,000,000 (Super Saiyan)
Trunks トランクス: 30,000,000 (Super Saiyan)

Son Goku and Jinzoningen#16 dies. Final battle againts Cell.

Son Gohan 孫 悟飯: 78,000,000 (Super Saiyan 2)
Cell セル: 45,000,000
Cell セル: around 49,000,000 (100% Power)

Cell セル: 75,000,000 (Perfect)
Oyako Kamehameha 親子かめかめ波: 110,000,000

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



06 - THE FINAL SAGA:

Seven years after the death of Son Goku.

Son Gohan 孫 悟飯: 690,000
Son Gohan 孫 悟飯: 34,500,000 (Super Saiyan)
Videl ビーデル: 11

New Tenkaichi Budokai.

Hercule ミスター・サタン: 8
Trunks トランクス: 120,000
Son Goten 孫 悟天: 116,000
Son Goten 孫 悟天: 5,800,000(Super Saiyan)
Trunks トランクス: 6,000,000 (Super Saiyan)
Son Gohan 孫 悟飯: 695,000
Kuririn クリリン: 12,000
Punta プンター: 7
Piccolo ピッコロ: 19,000,000
KaioShin 界王神: 32,000,000

Videl ビーデル: 14
Son Gohan 孫 悟飯: 34,750,000 (Super Saiyan)
Spopovich スポポビッチ: 26
Kibito キビト: 12,600,000
Son Gohan 孫 悟飯: 69,500,000 (Super Saiyan 2)

Supreme God follows the Majin humans to their base on the desert.

Bobbidi バビディ: 6
Pui Pui プイプイ: 26,000
Vegeta ベジータ: 755,000
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 780,000
Yakon ヤコン: 11,000,000
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 39,000,000 (Super Saiyan)
Dabura ダーブラ: 35,000,000

Vegeta ベジータ: 75,500,000 (Super Saiyan 2 Majin)
Vegeta ベジータ: around 78,500,000 (Super Saiyan 2 Majin / Active)
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 78,000,000 (Super Saiyan 2)
Majin Bu 魔人ブウ: 38,000,000

Majin Bu reborn. The Final War is here.

Majin Bu 魔人ブウ: 80,000,000
Majin Bu 魔人ブウ: 300,000,000 (Active)
Final Explosion 最後の爆発: 280,000,000

Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 312,000,000 (Super Saiyan 3)

Majin Bu 魔人ブウ: 300,000,000 (Max.Power)
Aku Bu 魔人ブウ純粋悪: 160,000,000
Majin Bu 魔人ブウ: 140,000,000

The fusion and the Mystic powers are the last hope on Earth.

Shin Bu魔人ブウ:悪: 320,000,000

Gotenks ゴテンクス: 810,000 (Normal / Without ki charge)
Gotenks ゴテンクス: 40,500,000 (Super Saiyan)
Gotenks ゴテンクス: 324,000,000 (Super Saiyan 3)

Son Gohan 孫 悟飯: 330,000,000
Shin Bu魔人ブウ:悪: 645,000,000 (Gotenks and Piccolo absorbed)
Tenshinhan 天津飯: 46,000

KibitoShin 東の界王神: 52,000,000

The ultimate warrior versus the ultimate evil monster.

Shin Bu魔人ブウ:悪: 975,000,000 (Son Gohan absorbed)
Vegetto ベジット: 24,000,000
Vegetto ベジット: 1,200,000,000 (Super Saiyan)

Final battle of Dragon Ball.

Minami No Kaio 南の界王: over 53,000,000
Dai KaioShin 大界王神: less than 53,000,000

Chibi Bu 魔人ブウ純粋: 310,000,000
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 312,100,000 (Super Saiyan 3)
Vegeta ベジータ: 80,000,000 (Super Saiyan 2)
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 315,000,000 (Super Saiyan 3 Max. Poder)
GenkiDama 元気玉: 325,000,000



07 - THE GOD SAGA:

HakaiShin Beerus on Earth.


Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 785,000
Son Goten 孫 悟天: 116,200
Mr. Satán ミスター・サタン: 7

KibitoShin 東の界王神: 52,000,000

Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 314,000,000 (Super Saiyan 3)

Son Gohan 孫 悟飯: less than 330,000,000
Majin Bu 魔人ブウ: 300,000,000
Gotenks ゴテンクス: over 324,000,000 (Super Saiyan 3)
Vegeta ベジータ: 756,000
Vegeta ベジータ: much much much over than 75,600,000. (MSSJ 2 Max. Power)

Beerus ビルス: around 1,200,000,000
Whis ウイス: over 1,200,000,000


Epilogue. End of Dragon Ball.

Pan パン: 10,000

Oob ウーブ: 20
Oob ウーブ: 980,000 (Full Power)
Vegeta ベジータ: 965,000,000
Son Gokū 孫 悟空: 1,000,000

[KentalSSJ6]

Any particular reason you arent using the Daizenshuu power levels? They cover up to Namek.

[dbgtFO]

Okay, so I wanted to make a joke list, based on the logical reasoning(though most likely far from truth), that Freeza's 100% against Goku was actually far below his actual 100% due to the damage he sustained. Also Super Saiyan Goku is 10x as good he had been up till that point in line with Toriyama's original thoughts.

Multipliers

Spoiler:

Super Saiyan Power-ups

Super Saiyan: 10x base.
Super Saiyan 2: 2x Super Saiyan.
Super Saiyan 3: 4x times Super Saiyan 2.

Super Saiyan forms give a variable boost, dependent on the Saiyan's training.
Super Saiyan God: 10,000x Super Saiyan.

Merging Power-ups

Fusion: when a < b:
ab = a*100.

Via Potara
Vegetto = Vegeta*1,000

Freeza Arc

Spoiler:

The Legendary Super Saiyan.
Krillin: 15,000.

Piccolo(Merged with Nail): 1,300,000.
-Without heavy clothing: 1,500,000.

Son Gohan: 200,000.
-Full Power: 700,000.
--Recovery boost: 900,000.
---Blast: 1,800,000.

Vegeta: 250,000.
-Full Power: 450,000.
--Recovery boost: 2,500,000.

Freeza: 530,000.
-Second Form: 1,060,000.
--Powered up: 1,200,000.
--Full Power: 1,400,000.
-Third Form: 2,000,000.
-Final Form: 3,400,000.
--50%: 60,000,000.
---post Genkidama: 20,000,000.
----100%: 40,000,000.
-Unseen 100%: 120,000,000.

Son Goku: 3,000,000.
-Kaio-ken x10: 30,000,000.
-weakened: 2,000,000.
--Kaio-ken x20: 40,000,000.
-post Genkidama: 50,000.
--rage-boosted, when transforming: 5,000,000.
---Super Saiyan: 50,000,000.

Cell Arc

Spoiler:

Trunks the Story –A Lone Warrior–

Trunks: 350,000.
-Super Saiyan: 3,500,000.

Son Gohan: 2,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 20,000,000.
-In his last fight: 4,500,000.
--Super Saiyan: 45,000,000.

#17: 30,000,000.
-In his last fight with Gohan: 75,000,000.
#18: 50,000,000.

3 years later...

Super Saiyan Trunks: 50,000,000.

The Boy from the Future

King Cold Troops: 1,000-2,000.
Chaozu: 1,500.
Yamcha: 3,000.
Tenshinhan: 5,000.
Krillin: 20,000.
Son Gohan: 1,000,000.
Vegeta: 2,800,000.
Piccolo: 3,000,000.

Mecha Freeza(10%): 15,000,000.
-100%(unseen): 150,000,000.
King Cold: 10,000,000.

Trunks: 5.
-Full Power: 5,000,000.
--Super Saiyan: 50,000,000.
Yup, Freeza totally could have kicked Trunks' ass, if he wasn't such an arrogant fool

Son Goku: 7,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 70,000,000.

The Android Arc.

Yamcha: 10,000.
Tenshinhan: 20,000.
Krillin: 50,000.

Son Gohan: 3,500,000.

Android #20/Dr. Gero: 20,000,000.
Android #19: 10,000,000.
--Goku absorbed: 30,000,000.

Piccolo: 30,000,000.

Super Saiyan Trunks: 60,000,000.
Super Saiyan Son Goku: 80,000,000.
-Affected by the Heart virus: 15,000,000.
Super Saiyan Vegeta: 80,000,000.

Android #18: 100,000,000.
Android #17: 150,000,000.

The Cell Arc

Piccolo(merged with Kami): 120,000,000.
-Without heavy clothing: 150,000,000.

Android #16: 250,000,000.

Vegeta: 10,000,000.
-Super Saiyan Stage I: 250,000,000.
-Super Saiyan Stage II: 750,000,000.

Trunks: 10,000,000.
-Super Saiyan Stage I: 250,000,000.
-Super Saiyan Stage II: 700,000,000.
-Super Saiyan Stage III: 1,500,000,000.

Cell: 80,000,000.
-Powered up: 250,000,000.
-Second Form: 400,000,000.
--Full Power: 550,000,000.
-Perfect Form: 650,000,000.
--Powered up: 1,000,000,000.

The Cell Games

Mister Satan: 6.66.

Piccolo: 600,000,000.

Trunks: 10,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 1,250,000,000.
Vegeta: 10,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 1,350,000,000.

Cell Juniors: 1,400,000,000.

Super Saiyan Son Goku: 900,000,000.
-Full Power: 1,800,000,000.

Cell: 1,000,000,000.
-Powered up: 2,000,000,000.
-Full Power: 3,000,000,000.
--Power Weighted: 6,000,000,000.
-Super Powered: 4,000,000,000.

Super Saiyan Full Power Son Gohan: 2,500,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 2: 5,000,000,000.

Peace for the Future...

Android #17: 75,000,000.
Android #18: 50,000,000.

Trunks: 10,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 1,200,000,000.

Over 3 years later...

Cell: 15,000,000.
-Full Power: 150,000,000.

Trunks: 12,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 1,200,000,000.

Majin Buu Arc

Spoiler:

The 25th Strongest under the Heavens Tournament

Mr. Satan: 6.66.
Videl: 7.

Kibito: 2,000,000.

#18: 100,000,000.
Piccolo: 600,000,000.

Son Gohan: 8,750,000.
-Super Saiyan 2: 3,500,000,000.

The Battle against Babidi's Men and Majin Buu

Kaioshin: 2,000,000,000.

Babidi: 5.
Pui Pui: 10,000.
Yakon: 800,000,000.
Dabra: 4,000,000,000.

Son Gohan: 840,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 4,200,000,000.
Obviously Gohan got a massive recovery boost after Kibito healed him, which explains why he was confident fighting Yakon in base and why his Super Saiyan state matched that of a guy with strength like Cell's.
Obviously.

Vegeta: 11,250,000.
-Super Saiyan: 2,250,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 2: 4,500,000,000.
--Powered up by Babidi: 6,000,000,000.

Son Goku: 15,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 3,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 2: 6,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 3: 12,000,000,000.
Goku deemed himself incapable of handling 40 tons in base form, which is the equivalent of 645 times Earth's gravity, given that Goku's official weight is 62kg. Since he could handle 100G at a BP of 3,000,000, his BP in the Buu Arc is going to be less than 6.45*3,000,000. So his base BP is less than 19 million in the Buu Arc.
QED.

Son Goten: 8,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 400,000,000.
Trunks: 8,500,000.
-Super Saiyan: 425,000,000.

Gotenks: 800,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 40,000,000,000.

Majin Buu (Fat): 5,000,000,000.
-Power-up 1: 7,500,000,000.
--Power-up 2: 10,000,000,000.
-Point of splitting: 40,000,000,000.

Mr. Buu: 15,000,000,000.
Pure Evil Buu: 25,000,000,000.

The Terrible Super Majin Buu

Kibito: 2,000,000.
Kaioshin: 2,000,000,000.

Kaioshin(merged with Kibito): 4,004,000,000.

Son Goten: 10,000,000.
Trunks: 10,000,000.

Gotenks: 1,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 50,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 2: 100,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 3: 400,000,000,000.

Son Gohan(Ultimate Power): 500,000,000,000.

Super Majin Buu: 300,000,000,000.
-With Super Gotenks: 700,000,000,000.
-With Super Son Gohan: 800,000,000,000.

Gogeta(hypothetical): 1,500,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 300,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 2: 600,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 3: 2,400,000,000,000.

Vegetto: 15,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 3,000,000,000,000.

Pure Majin Buu(South Kaioshin absorbed): 400,000,000,000.

A Match with the Whole Universe at Stake

The Kaioshins, who faced Buu
East Kaioshin: 500,000,000.
West Kaioshin: 5,000,000,000.
North Kaioshin: 10,000,000,000.
Great Kaioshin: 15,000,000,000.
South Kaioshin: 380,000,000,000.

The Final Battle against Buu
Mr. Satan: 6.66.
Vegeta: 15,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 2: 6,000,000,000.
Mr. Buu: 15,000,000,000.

Pure Majin Buu : 20,000,000,000.

Super Saiyan Son Goku: 3,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 3: 20,000,000,000.
-Unseen Full Power: 24,000,000,000.
-Final Genkidama: 50,000,000,000.

Special: Yo! Son Goku and friends return!!

Spoiler:

Tarble: 1,800.

Yamcha: 5,000.
Tenshinhan: 30,000.
Krillin: 45,000.
#18: 100,000,000.
Piccolo: 600,000,000.

Avo: 500,000.
Kado: 500,000.

Aka: 50,000,000.

Son Goten: 8,000,000.
Trunks: 8,000,000.

Gotenks: 800,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 40,000,000,000.

Vegeta: 20,000,000.
Son Goku: 20,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 4,000,000,000.

Movie 14: Battle of Gods

Spoiler:

Super Saiyan Gotenks: 40,000,000,000.
Drunk&Wrongly colored Son Gohan: 10,000,000,000.

Vegeta: 30,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 6,000,000,000.
--Bullshit power-up: 600,000,000,000.

Vegetto(hypothetical): 30,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 3: 48,000,000,000,000.

Son Goku: 30,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 6,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 2: 12,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 3: 48,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan God: 60,000,000,000,000.

Beerus: 100,000,000,000,000.

Whis: 150,000,000,000,000.

Movie 15: Revival of [F]

Spoiler:

Tagoma: 35,000.
Sorbet: 15,000.

(AlternateReality?)Krillin: 100,000.
(AR?)Gohan: 1,000,000.

Beerus: 100,000,000,000,000.
Whis: 150,000,000,000,000.

Son Goku: 4,000,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan/God: 200,000,000,000,000.

Freeza: 120,000,000.
-Bullshit God mode/5th form: 240,000,000,000,000.

Vegeta: 50,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 10,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan God: 100,000,000,000,000.
-Enraged about Goku obviously getting to finish Freeza, despite Toriyama's promises to the contrary: 1,000,000,000,000,000.

The 28th Strongest under the Heavens Tournament

Spoiler:

Pan: 2,000,000.
Son Goten: 15,000,000.
Trunks: 16,000,000.
Son Gohan: 1,000,000,000.

Son Goku: 15,000,000,000.
Uub: 40.
-Angry: 20,000,000,000.

[ZombieVito]

How strong do you guys have SSJ Trunks and Yardrat SSJ Goku?

I've been wondering for some time their BP's. Many have them somewhat high (200 million for Goku!!) but do they really need to be that high? Gohan even mistook Trunks for Goku at one point. He's he really that far from Namek Goku?

[Kaboom]

How strong do you guys have SSJ Trunks and Yardrat SSJ Goku?

My exact numbers for them tend to bounce back and forth, but typically I have Trunks a bit stronger than Namek SS Goku, while I think Goku would have to be a decent chunk ahead of to be able to take on Freeza and Cold simultaneously. I also usually consider the 200 million mark to be a special little threshold that wasn't quite crossed until the serious pre-Android training.

So Trunks and Goku usually end up at like 160 and 180 million, or 175 and 190... Something like that.

[Low Tone G]

Tagoma: 35,000.
Sorbet: 15,000.

(AlternateReality?)Krillin: 100,000.
(AR?)Gohan: 1,000,000.

Beerus: 100,000,000,000,000.
Whis: 150,000,000,000,000.

Son Goku: 4,000,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan/God: 200,000,000,000,000.

Freeza: 120,000,000.
-Bullshit God mode/5th form: 240,000,000,000,000.

Vegeta: 50,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 10,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan God: 100,000,000,000,000.
-Enraged about Goku obviously getting to finish Freeza, despite Toriyama's promises to the contrary: 1,000,000,000,000,000.

I love pepole speaking about Alternate Reality. But your list ist some kind of good. But don't think Goku could surpass Beerus and Whis.

My list is something like:

Spoiler:

Tagoma: 100.000
Sorbet: 10.000

Krillin: 50.000
Gohan: 100.000.000.000 (Ultimate power)
Piccolo: 1.200.000.000

Beerus: 10.000.000.000.000
Whis: 15.000.000.000.000

Vegeta: 100.000.000
-Super Saiyan: 5.000.000.000
-Super Saiyan God: 10.000.000.000.000(he will loose it after it runs out)

Goku:
-Base - Super Saiyan - Super Saiyan God: 8.000.000.000.000 - 10.000.000.000.000

Frieza: 120.000.000
-God mode: 24.000.000.000.000

[Darkron2151]

How strong do you guys have SSJ Trunks and Yardrat SSJ Goku?

I've been wondering for some time their BP's. Many have them somewhat high (200 million for Goku!!) but do they really need to be that high? Gohan even mistook Trunks for Goku at one point. He's he really that far from Namek Goku?

I don't think Trunks is worlds above Namek Goku just for easily killing a suppressed Freeza, but I do have him stronger just because I feel like it . Plus, the only thing Goku seemed to have accomplished during his ~2 year absence was to learn to transform at will, get a bit stronger, and Instant Transmission. Other than his little duel with Trunks, in which Goku implies that Trunks may have actually been holding back due to not being in the fighting "mood", he's not worlds above his Namek-self either, but I still have him quite a bit stronger than Trunks, because of how easily he handled the duel and how Trunks comments on saying that the "legends were true" about Goku's power or something like that.

I have them all around:

• SSJ Goku (Namek): 150,000,000
  SSJ Future Trunks (Trunks Saga): 160,000,000
  SSJ Goku (Trunks Saga): 180,000,000

[Mattias_]

Any particular reason you arent using the Daizenshuu power levels? They cover up to Namek.

'Cause they are so wrong!!

150 millions for Goku SSJ in Namek?? Reakum can destroy a big piece of planet with only 45,000... then Freezer in his 3rd form can destroy the whole planet with only his arms... But well...

[Darkprince410]

Any particular reason you arent using the Daizenshuu power levels? They cover up to Namek.

'Cause they are so wrong!!

150 millions for Goku SSJ in Namek?? Reakum can destroy a big piece of planet with only 45,000... then Freezer in his 3rd form can destroy the whole planet with only his arms... But well...

Why is that wrong? The majority of the time, any blasts were intentionally held back or redirected to avoid direct planetary impact and explosion.

You have Goku at around 2.2 million and you have Freeza at just a bit higher. While I disagree with those exact numbers, they're at least in the spirit of having Goku's base in the low millions. However, you have Freeza at only 4,000,000 when he went to half strength, which doesn't fit what we see in the manga, because Goku immediately countered Freeza's jump in strength by using the 10x Kaiou-ken, which by your numbers would put him at over 20 million, but he wasn't able to hurt Freeza in the slightest. That would, at the very least, suggest Freeza's 50% power to be over 20 million. Furthermore, the only time that any sort of power loss from Goku is ever stated or suggested is AFTER he used the 20x Kaiou-ken, meaning that although he had taken all that damage, his power hadn't decreased to such significant levels like you're suggesting. This would, in turn, mean that Freeza's strength was sitting at least around 40-50 million while at 50% if he were able to hold off the Kamehameha like he did.

THIS IS THE END. SON GOKU DIES ON NAMEK. KURIRIN, YAMCHA, CHAOZU, TENSHINHAN AND VEGETA COULDN'T REVIVE, BUT SON GOHAN AND PICCOLO ARE THE NEWEST HEROES ON THE EARTH. BUT, PRESSING BY THE EDITORS, TORIYAMA HAD TO WRITE MORE SAGAS. LET'S CONTINUE.

Allow me to redirect you here to correct that particular bolded statement.

[ZombieVito]

Any particular reason you arent using the Daizenshuu power levels? They cover up to Namek.

'Cause they are so wrong!!

150 millions for Goku SSJ in Namek?? Reakum can destroy a big piece of planet with only 45,000... then Freezer in his 3rd form can destroy the whole planet with only his arms... But well...

But they are official...

[Mattias_]

Any particular reason you arent using the Daizenshuu power levels? They cover up to Namek.

'Cause they are so wrong!!

150 millions for Goku SSJ in Namek?? Reakum can destroy a big piece of planet with only 45,000... then Freezer in his 3rd form can destroy the whole planet with only his arms... But well...

But they are official...

But they are wrong...

[TheDevilsCorpse]

But they are wrong...

..to you. You aren't providing any explanation for why you feel like they don't work though. So just because you don't like them and they don't mesh with your interpretations, that doesn't make "they are wrong" a valid argument to discredit them.

You are of course free to disregard them in favor of your own numbers (which have some inconsistencies of their own), but just remember that doesn't mean your numbers are relevant to every topic across the forum and not everyone is going to agree with them when you post them in said topics just because you think you've done them right.

[RandomGuy96]

He didn't use an afterimage, he just dodged the Saibaiman.

Regardless, landing one hit that does next to no damage =/= being way stronger. I'm not sure where you could possibly get that idea.

Perhaps Goku's ki was fully restored, but his damaged body held him back a little. His damage wasn't healed after all.

Or, Freeza could fight better than his BP because his big body gave him greater physical strength & speed.

Or, the numbers are wrong. But I don't feel like changing them.

Or it was, since that number is clearly for Goku in the Freeza fight.

Or, Freeza got the shit beaten out of him anyway, so it doesn't really matter.

Or, the numbers are right, and you're just overcomplicating things.

Yes, because there is a 5% difference, and the Goku vs Beerus fight was a good, yet one-sided fight. In the end of the battle Goku was out of energy & out of breath, with damaged body & clothes, and could barely stand, while Beerus was perfectly fine. That wasn't a fight between rivaling strength, and even Goku said that there was a huge gap in their powers, and he never gave any indication that he knew that Beerus was holding back.

Beerus and Goku fought for a long time, like 10 minutes, while Goku vs Freeza lasted about two minutes. Goku was able to go toe to toe with him for a while and land several hits, while Freeza was only able to land 2-3 and was in critical condition by the end of the fight, while Goku was worn out but not heavily injured. And yet, a 5% difference apparently can't account for that huge difference in performance. Because as we all know, Toriyama was very specific and deliberate about his power level formulas, and had them written down somewhere.

What's that?

He gave the anime staff a memo which said Raditz was stronger than a Saibaman.

We don't even know if they asked him about these. For all we know, he may had left all the job to Shueisha because he was too busy with the manga, so he didn't bother going back to the manga and checking if the numbers they have are correct.

And again, you have no proof that Toriyama had anything to do with these numbers. The fact that these were released in the same magazine with his manga means absolutely nothing.

No one could possibly be too busy for this. It takes literally two minutes to look them over.

It does, actually. You're assuming that he wouldn't take two minutes to look at the page printed about his manga in the same magazine, while he would bother to write memos for the anime staff.

I can't prove anything here, you can't prove anything here. The way I see it, the fighter uses many weak ki blasts at once to deal a lot of damage, which is better than a single basic ki blast with more concentrated power. With the speed they are all fired, I don't thing the fighter has any time, or even stamina to concentrate that much power in every ki blast.

I can, actually. You said that it wouldn't make sense for Vegeta to do so much damage to someone equal or slightly stronger than him, even though we saw hitting an opponent in a vulnerable position like that with one, generic, uncharged finger beam can do tons of damage, and we also see that the technique Vegeta used can be quite potent. There's no reason to assume it couldn't do what it did.

He didn't. The rapid-fire ki blasts is a more powerful technique than a normal ki blast.

Then how is it implausible to you for Vegeta to damage an equal or slightly stronger Zarbon, while it is not implausible for Cell to critically damage Gohan, who was noticeably stronger than him?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Regardless, landing one hit that does next to no damage =/= being way stronger. I'm not sure where you could possibly get that idea.

Next to no damage? Yamcha proved to be so superior, that the Saibaiman was forced to self-destruct. In a brief fight.

He gave the anime staff a memo which said Raditz was stronger than a Saibaman.

It said that Raditz was slightly stronger.

No one could possibly be too busy for this. It takes literally two minutes to look them over.

It does, actually. You're assuming that he wouldn't take two minutes to look at the page printed about his manga in the same magazine, while he would bother to write memos for the anime staff.

It doesn't take 2 minutes to spot the errors.

Then how is it implausible to you for Vegeta to damage an equal or slightly stronger Zarbon, while it is not implausible for Cell to critically damage Gohan, who was noticeably stronger than him?

Gohan was caught off-guard. He wasn't ready to take the hit, he was ready to grab Vegeta & leave. Zarbon was in the middle of a fight.

[Mattias_]

But they are wrong...

..to you. You aren't providing any explanation for why you feel like they don't work though. So just because you don't like them and they don't mesh with your interpretations, that doesn't make "they are wrong" a valid argument to discredit them.

You are of course free to disregard them in favor of your own numbers (which have some inconsistencies of their own), but just remember that doesn't mean your numbers are relevant to every topic across the forum and not everyone is going to agree with them when you post them in said topics just because you think you've done them right.

Sorry... My english is bad! I have explanations and arguments for my Power Levels (besides the Daizenshuu's list), you know.

But I don't know how to tell that to you.