Re-DragonBall

[Mr.Piccolo]

My standing against the term "Android" is solely becaues of #17, #18, and Cell. They are cyborgs in every sense of the word and should never be referred to as "Androids".

Does anyone know what Cell is?

[off topic]This debate/ranting[/off topic]

[Godo]

Who cares if Androids isn't the correct term? That's what they use in the dub. Therefore, it's perfectly acceptable in my book. There's no point in chewing someone out over somethng as small as that.

Actually, it's important to use the right terms as it would otherwise cause misunderstandings. Especially if you tell someone:

"You have watched Dragonball? It's neat and Cell is cool!" -You say

"What is Cell and WTF are you talking about?" - You get as an answer.

"Cell is a creature made of the cells of the strongest fighter in the world! He is a cyborg!" You say.

"Well, technically, what that Cell is, is an Android more likely. We are in english class and you have made a fool out of youself. Go and weep in a corner by yourself". He says.

And everyone think you are an idiot.

[GI_Judd2287]

It doesn't matter if it's correct; Androids is what they are called in the dub, not cyborgs. Some fans prefer the dub so it's only natural they call them by their dubbed name. Why make fun of them for it? Just let them call it that and leave it alone.

[Eclipse]

Personally, I have no idea if I am a 2nd generation fan, or just an experienced 3rd generation fan. I'm more inclined towards 3rd, considering i've been quite into Dragon Ball for the past 2 and a half years.

Anyways, I hardly care much about people's personal using for names. While I agree about stuff like Gokou, Ceru, Pikkoro, everything else is somewhat tomato/tom-ato.

Dubbies are what bug me. Don't be confused, though "Fans of the Dub" and "Dubbies" are two very different things. Dubbies are the snot nosed 13 year olds who worship Broly (Broli*) as god, thinks that the original Japanese version is crap because Goku is played by a woman, and won't back down on any random ignorant opinion they made up in their mind, like that Broly (Broli*) could beat up Kid Buu (Chibi Boo*) because his Power Level is 600 Billion and Boo's is only 559 Billion because they said so. I'm sorry, but I just don't encounter this same level of immaturity amongst fans of the Japanese version. Probably because watching something in a different language requires, uh, taste and maturity.

*Thumbs up*

[Duo]

When I first typed up my post, I didn't include Cell, then I realized his posed a problem as well so I tossed his name in, failing to realize the significance it would have with the next sentence. I didn't intend to call him a Cyborg.

Cell is a completely biologically engineered spliced clone of several people. In the Manga it is Freeza, King Cold, Vegeta, Goku, and Piccolo. In the Anime, it's a great number of various creatures and martial artists.

"Bio-Android" is the closest acceptable abbreviation I can think of. "Artificial Human" however, is both accurate and used in the original Japanese. Artificial Human wins when it comes to describing all of them (#16-#20 & Cell).

Moving on...

Just because the Dub calls them "Androids" doesn't make it alright. They call Tenshinhan "Tien" as well. That is not an acceptable translation on any count. They also decided Goku doesn't have a family name. Does the dub make that right? No.

[Conan the SSJ]

They also decided Goku doesn't have a family name.

Yay for them not erasing the surname from the family mailboxes and 17 year old Goten's shirts.

[Super Sonic]

Technically what Cell is closest to is what Viz described him as. An artificial life-form. I haven't seen the Japanese Cell saga, but I assume they used Jinzoningin (spl) to describe him as well.

As for the dropping of the "Son" surname, I think it comes to two reasons:

1) Having his family name first would confuse Americans

2) Goku Son just doesn't sound right.

[tarsonis]

Having his family name first would confuse Americans

No, it would confuse dubbies. I don't think nationality has anything to do with it. Does anyone know if dubbing companies other than Funimation include 'Son'?

[Bejiita]

Well I haven't heard 'Son' in any dub.

A good way to have just made us know it was his name would have been by a character saying it in episode one. The narrator would have been better, then fans know from then his name is Son Goku.

Am I the only one who calls the cyborgs by their numbers? I used to say Android 18 but after I started saying 'number 18', or just the number alone.

I didn't come into DBZ as early as most, it was June 2000 or sometime in that year. Still, I was quick catch on and learned that the original version is the best by miles. Furthermore, even comparing the two is pointless because it's painfully clear to anyone who thinks straight that the dub is a cheap knock off in comparison. Most people that say the dub is better are usually people that are too lazy to read subtitiles, love rock/techno music as used in the dub, and aren't open minded enough to accept the voice of Goku is a woman's.

When Goku talks, I don't picture an elderly woman, I don't even try to picture an impersinator, I just see it as Goku talking, it spoils it when you try to picture someone else talking, when I'm seeing Bart pulling pranks and acting rowdy, then remember the voice actress is a dodgy looking woman with glasses and grey hair, that takes away some of what makes watching it fun, which is it's make believe, it's a cartoon/anime and most of all, original. Anyone would expect a Vegeta type voice for Goku, a loud mannered one, but no, it's high-pitched, and gives an inocent child's type of feeling, and Goku really is like that, happy n' shit.

Anyway, Goku in the original is Goku, in the dub, it's somebody else, Goku is a funny, slightly dopey, wild character, but in the dub he's some dumb sounding man, who has an annoying voice and an even more annoying shout/scream.

[Casual Matt]

Well I haven't heard 'Son' in any dub.

I think the french dub called him Sangoku, though.

A good way to have just made us know it was his name would have been by a character saying it in episode one. The narrator would have been better, then fans know from then his name is Son Goku.

The Blue Water dub actually did this. "Heya. I'm Goku. Well, Son Goku, really." Or something along those lines.

Am I the only one who calls the cyborgs by their numbers? I used to say Android 18 but after I started saying 'number 18', or just the number alone.

That's what I try to do. Since that's what their "names" actually are. (Juuhachigo = Number Eighteen). Either way, I spell it just as #18 so you can read it however you prefer.

[BrollysKin]

How is Cell a cyborg? I was under the impression he was all completely organic.

[Victator Supreme]

No, it would confuse dubbies.

By that you mean the vast majority of the American fanbase. Dubbies and the dub in general get a bad rap. The dubbies are the driving force behind the popularity of Dragonball in this country, and an argument could be made for the resurgence in Japan too. That popularity has lead to bunch of cool video games and other products being released. So yay dubbies, give em hell!!!

Why is saying Krillin so wrong? Thats how the Japanese pronounce it.

[VegettoEX]

No, it would confuse dubbies.

By that you mean the vast majority of the American fanbase. Dubbies and the dub in general get a bad rap. The dubbies are the driving force behind the popularity of Dragonball in this country, and an argument could be made for the resurgence in Japan too. That popularity has lead to bunch of cool video games and other products being released. So yay dubbies, give em hell!!!

I'd say it being the 20th(+) anniversary and that the fans from youth having jobs and money to spend on things, now, is the driving force over in Japan.

Why is saying Krillin so wrong? Thats how the Japanese pronounce it.

If you slur it really fast and don't listen carefully, sure.

[Victator Supreme]

I'd say it being the 20th(+) anniversary and that the fans from youth having jobs and money to spend on things, now, is the driving force over in Japan.

Having a highly successful game series has also helped things.

If you slur it really fast and don't listen carefully, sure.

I've heard it pronounced as Krillin in he actual series.

[VegettoEX]

I'd say it being the 20th(+) anniversary and that the fans from youth having jobs and money to spend on things, now, is the driving force over in Japan.

Having a highly successful game series has also helped things.

A game series that didn't come out until this same time period when the fans were old enough to actually be able to continue affording these things again, at least a decade after they last had their parents get the games for them .

If you slur it really fast and don't listen carefully, sure.

I've heard it pronounced as Krillin in he actual series.

I assure you that you have not, because that's not what they're saying. "Krillin" is nothing more than a FUNimation-approximation-name-change of a name that's incredibly difficult for English speakers to roll off their tongues. It's similar to why "Paikuhan" was changed to "Pikkon" (though that's an easier one to pronounce).

The Japanese language cannot get the hard "k" and "r" sounds together without our equivalent of a "vowel-sound".

[Anonymous Friend]

Me personally when I talk to people I'll use the Dub names and most of the time when I write. As long as we all know who we're refering to that should be all that matters. I've learned so much for coming to this site and it's all because you guys keep it really real. We need folks to correct us when we're wrong. I've been raised on the dub since it debuted on Cartoon Network and still catch it whenever it's on. I do play Budokai Tenkaichi with the Japanese voices sometimes.

In the end, it's the story, characters, and action that got us hooked. Not not a bunch of names. Goku could have been called Ralph I would have still watched. I understand that the Dragonball that I've seen may been slashed and cut with band-aids over the nipples, but I'm just appreciative that I've had Dragonball in my life.

Real fans need to make sure that truth is out there, and they need to be open to the fact that they may not know everything about their favorites characters. Heck, it took me over ten years to realize that the Joker did not kill Thomas and Martha Wayne.

[Super Sonic]

Real fans need to make sure that truth is out there, and they need to be open to the fact that they may not know everything about their favorites characters. Heck, it took me over ten years to realize that the Joker did not kill Thomas and Martha Wayne.

That is also an example of how adaptaions can do what they want. Also the killer's identity is different now than it was 30 years ago.

[tarsonis]

No, it would confuse dubbies.

By that you mean the vast majority of the American fanbase. Dubbies and the dub in general get a bad rap. The dubbies are the driving force behind the popularity of Dragonball in this country

But that's not what he said. I just don't want to be put into one big generalized group of people that would be "confused" by it. My point is that maybe the phrase should have been "the average American viewer".

[Casual Matt]

If you slur it really fast and don't listen carefully, sure.

I've heard it pronounced as Krillin in he actual series.

I assure you that you have not, because that's not what they're saying. "Krillin" is nothing more than a FUNimation-approximation-name-change of a name that's incredibly difficult for English speakers to roll off their tongues. It's similar to why "Paikuhan" was changed to "Pikkon" (though that's an easier one to pronounce).

The Japanese language cannot get the hard "k" and "r" sounds together without our equivalent of a "vowel-sound".

I'm just going to interject my opinion here and say that EX is definitely right. How the characters names are pronounced has a big effect on how I write them, to be honest, and when I hear Kuririn's name, it's definitely Kuririn. It's pretty much impossible to say without a Japanese 'accent' or else you end up with Krirn, Klylin, Krillin, etc.

On the flip side, that's also why I write Yamcha instead of Yamucha. You can kinda hear an extra 'u' in there, but it isn't extraneous or emphasized. I would compare it to "Sakura" from Naruto. An english speaker reading that would probably pronounce it "Sa-kuu-ra". In fact I've heard that in a game review video on IGN (You can't spell ignorant without IGN). When saying it in an english 'accent', it should sound much more like "Sack-ra". Anyway, writing Yamcha like "Yamucha" might give some people the impression that there's a noticable "u" sound in the middle of his name, when really it just sounds more like "Yam-cha".

The obvious big debate with things like this is "Kakarotto". Personally I spell it with the extra "to" even though one wouldn't have to. The reason I do this is because of Broli's exclamations (though Mike explained in another thread that this isn't an accurate source of name pronounciation and emphasis, which is true) and of course, Vegetto's name. But this one is just my preference of spelling it "Kakarotto".

[Kaboom]

Errmm.. whlie we're on the topic of japanese romanization, pronunciation, and translation of things... I have a quick question.

What about the "Tsufuru-jin" to "Tuffle" adaptation? I know "Tuffle" sounds a bit silly, but is it accurate or inaccurate, and how?

Just figured it wasn't worth starting a whole new thread, since we're on the topic here already.