What Makes Freeza So Special?

[Low Tone G]

Why is he so special?

- He is the direct reason why Goku was sent to Earth according to Dragon Ball Minus.
- He is the most powerful being without any power-up(Kid Buu became so powerful because he absorbed not only pleople but their evil too in the distant past).
- He is the one to know about the legend of Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan God, and the one who made Goku become one.
- He is considered the most powerul being by Beerus himself.
- His behaviour as an omnipontent ruler.
- His terrifying transformations(especialy the third one).
- His special abilities.
- He did everthing in order to eliminate his potential foes who could potentially threaten him.
- He is the frist villain who is able live in space.
- He is the one who can destroy a planet using only one finger (according to Bardock TV special).
- He has the most minions in the series.

But for me he is only third favorite villan after Beerus and Cell.

[Michsi]

While he is not the most powerful villain in the series , he always felt like the most symbolic as far as DB antagonist go. As dbgtFO mentioned, it might be because DB reached it's peak popularity wise during his saga , with the first SSJ transformation and all. It might also be due to his connection to the saiyan race and Vegeta's and Goku's past.

[rereboy]

Uub, #17, and #18.

Those are androids. Not even the saiyans in their base probably could stand up to Freeza.

[RandomGuy96]

Uub, #17, and #18.

Those are androids. Not even the saiyans in their base probably could stand up to Freeza.

Uub is 100% human. The androids are 99% human, and according to Toriyama and some of the guidebooks, their power doesn't even come from the mechanical parts that make up the last 1%. So it's a meaningless distinction. Also, if you want to get technical like this, then they actually aren't androids.

[rereboy]

That's faulty logic. They have that power because they are androids/cyborgs. Its pointless to argue that they are 99% human when their power comes from the 1% that isn't human. If Yamcha had the same modifications he would also be superior to Freeza, but he doesn't.

And Uub is the same. He may be technically 100% human, but his power is because of his spirit being the reincarnation of a very powerful alien/demon. Regardless, Uub doesn't seem to exist yet in this new movie which I believe is the source for this topic.

[RandomGuy96]

That's faulty logic. They have that power because they are androids/cyborgs. Its pointless to argue that they are 99% human when their power comes from the 1% that isn't human. If Yamcha had the same modifications he would also be superior to Freeza, but he doesn't.

And Uub is the same. He may be technically 100% human, but his power is because of his spirit being the reincarnation of a very powerful alien/demon. Regardless, Uub doesn't seem to exist yet in this new movie which I believe is the source for this topic.

Except no, that's wrong. There's no indication anywhere that their power is mechanical in nature. The guidebooks state that the only mechanical components in their bodies are the bombs, the generators, and the equipment necessary for a shutdown, Cell states that he can't absorb mechanical power, and Toriyama states that the androids can get stronger by just training. None of these are indicative of purely mechanical power. Their power is obviously still their own, rather than just being the result of built in weapons. Otherwise training wouldn't do anything.

[rereboy]

Except no, that's wrong. There's no indication anywhere that their power is mechanical in nature.

It doesn't matter if its mechanical or not... It could be entirely biological and only based on human DNA... They only have that power BECAUSE of those modifications. Without it they are hopeless.

They can fight Freeza BECAUSE they are androids/cyborgs/bio-manipulated beings and only because of that, not because of their human side.

Grouping them with the other humans like that doesn't matter at all is faulty logic.

If you follow that logic, you might as well include Gohan and the other halfbreeds in the human group. After all, there's as much human in there as there is Saiyan.

[RandomGuy96]

Except no, that's wrong. There's no indication anywhere that their power is mechanical in nature.

It doesn't matter if its mechanical or not... It could be entirely biological and only based on human DNA... They only have that power BECAUSE of those modifications. Without it they are hopeless.

They can fight Freeza BECAUSE they are androids/cyborgs/bio-manipulated beings and only because of that, not because of their human side.

Grouping them with the other humans is faulty logic.

If you follow that logic, you might as well include Gohan and the other halfbreeds in the human group. After all, there's as much human in there as there is Saiyan.

Freeza only had the power he did because he was a mutant of his race. I really don't see what the difference is between being born with a mutation and gaining all your power through a procedure early in your life. At the end of the day, it's still just giving us more Earthlings capable of one-shotting Freeza.

They're half and half, not 99 and 1. Still, maybe they actually should be counted. They're half human and were raised on Earth. Freeza's a hybrid too, after all.

[rereboy]

Freeza only had the power he did because he was a mutant of his race. I really don't see what the difference is between being born with a mutation and gaining all your power tgrough a procedure early in your life. At the end of the day, it's still just giving us more Earthlings capable of one-shotting Freeza.

They're half and half, not 99 and 1. Still, maybe they actually should be counted. They're half human and were raised on Earth. Freeza's a hybrid too, after all.

Because the procedure turns you into something more than human, hence being faulty logic to group you with the rest of the humans like that didn't matter when we are talking about fighting capability.

It would be like taking a group of people, replacing parts of their arms with biological weapon parts that make them able to shoot lasers from their arms, and still group them with all the other humans in terms of fighting capability, instead of addressing that particular group as meta-humans/cyborgs/mutants/whatever. They are, inherently, not the same.

And I never tried to group Freeza with anyone.

[RandomGuy96]

Freeza only had the power he did because he was a mutant of his race. I really don't see what the difference is between being born with a mutation and gaining all your power tgrough a procedure early in your life. At the end of the day, it's still just giving us more Earthlings capable of one-shotting Freeza.

They're half and half, not 99 and 1. Still, maybe they actually should be counted. They're half human and were raised on Earth. Freeza's a hybrid too, after all.

Because the procedure turns you into something more than human, hence being faulty logic to group you with the rest of the humans like that didn't matter when we are talking about fighting capability.

It would be like taking a group of people, replacing parts of their arms with biological weapon parts that make them able to shoot lasers from their arms, and still group them with all the other humans in terms of fighting capability, instead of addressing that particular group as meta-humans/cyborgs/mutants/whatever. They are, inherently, not the same.

And I never tried to group Freeza with anyone.

No, they're still human. They have bits added on, but those bits aren't related to their fighting ability. So it's still a human with human power being stronger than Freeza. The question is "are they human"? The answer is very obviously "yes". So multiple humans are considerably more powerful than Freeza.

The most powerful being of any particular race is a mutant (at least, that's what Freeza calls them) and waaaaaay more different from the average than "merely" a human that can shoot lasers. Again, this is not a good comparison.

[ABED]

Humans are also mutant. Mutation is how we evolved from single celled organisms into the dominant species on the planet. Or so Professor X tells us. In all seriousness, it was a mutation, but we're all mutants, and Freeza's power is inherent in his being. The cyborgs weren't born that way, the power comes from them being cyborgs. In addition, their power isn't ki based, which it would be if they were normal humans.

[Attitudefan]

Why Freeza is my favourite villain ever?!

Freeza used the saiyans as slaves and blow up their planet.
Got knowledge about the Dragon Balls thanks to Vegeta and tried to used them for his own good, killing almost all namekians to get them.
He's the boss of Ginyu Force.
He's the first villain to have more than one transformation.
He's evil to the core only because he feels like it.
Vegeta breakdown.
He's the reason why Goku became ssj and things changed forever.
SSJ Goku vs Freeza 100% Full Powa its one of the best fights.
His theme song is awesome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EM2fRG ... Rg&index=2

He also has the longest "on screen" fight in fiction.


But I love Freeza because DBZ really comes full circle with him (only to flush it down the drain in the next arc). But he is the bosses of all bosses, plus he's relatable; he's realistic as a boss or a Monarch or a dictator that has been seen in the real world. He's like a combined Hitler/Al Capone/King George III. Plus he runs something like our corrupt multinational corporations who exploit the weak and the poor in the third world (except he controls a multi planetary corporation hahaha). He represents the evil in our world turned up to 11. Many of the other villains, including cell, are too fantastical or not as large a scale. Freeza actually balances fantastical with reality very well where he becomes a believable bad guy, and one that people genuinely love to hate.

Freeza is awesome.

[rereboy]

No, they're still human.

You are not getting it. I'm not saying that they aren't basically or mostly human. I'm saying that it makes no sense to just group them with the other humans when talking about fighting capability without differentiating them in regards to what makes them more than human, aka their android/cyborg nature.

It makes no sense for someone to say "the humans on the Buu saga couldn't take on Freeza" and for you to respond to that statement by saying "yes, they could, because the androids are basically humans so, even though you are obviously not thinking about the androids when you want to talk about the capabilities of the humans in terms of fighting power, you are wrong in that statement since the androids are technically mostly human". As mentioned, its just faulty logic. Its logic that relies on technicality while forgetting that they are inherently different and in it lies their power.

[RandomGuy96]

No, they're still human.

You are not getting it. I'm not saying that they aren't basically or mostly human. I'm saying that it makes no sense to just group them with the other humans when talking about fighting capability without differentiating them in regards to what makes them more than human, aka their android/cyborg nature.

It makes no sense for someone to say "the humans on the Buu saga couldn't take on Freeza" and for you to respond to that statement by saying "yes, they could, because the androids are basically humans so, even though you are obviously not thinking about the androids when you want to talk about the capabilities of the humans, since the androids are technically mostly human you are wrong in that statement". As mentioned, its just faulty logic.

Their cyborg nature doesn't make them stronger. Their power is organic; it can be absorbed by Cell, it doesn't come from mechanical parts, and it can be improved by going through physical training. It is organic.

No, it's not. The question was "can any humans take Freeza?". The answer to that question is obviously "yes", as 17, 18, and Uub are all human (yes, someone who has been modified to a low extent like that still counts as human, unless you want to tell some guy with a prosthetic leg or a pacemaker that he's not human). Furthermore, 17 and 18 have purely organic power, their mechanical components don't relate to their power levels. So, there are humans that can take Freeza, and they can do it with human power rather than just built-in mechanical weapons.

Exbadguy: even the humans can kill Freeza now.

Lord Beerus: What human could possibly stand up to Freeza?

Me: 17, 18, and Uub are human and strong enough to beat Freeza.

Lord Beerus: Oh, I forgot about them, you're right. Though 17/18 are only half-human.

Me: Nah, they're like 95% human.*

*their only mechanical components are the bombs and the generators, as well as whatever allows them to be shut down by the remote. They're still almost entirely human; even their reproductive organs still work.

--issue done and dormant for two days--

You: those aren't humans, those are androids.

Me: No, they aren't (if you want to get technical, they're cyborgs). They're like 99% human with only a few small mechanical parts unrelated to their actual power.

You: they're only strong because they're cyborgs, so [somehow] they don't count as humans [why?].

Me: No, their power itself is organic, according to Toriyama, the guidebooks, and Cell.

You: they got their power through some (non-mechanical) augmentation that has nothing to do with their status as cyborgs, so they don't count.

And so on. The basic point was: "no humans can beat Freeza" ---> "actually, these ones can" ---> "oh right, I forgot about those ones". Done and resolved. It was a minor correction because a poster wasn't considering certain characters when s/he made a statement.

What exactly are you trying to prove by starting an argument several days after that? Are you trying to say that the cyborgs AREN'T humans? Because they very clearly are. Are you trying to say that, even if they are humans, we just don't 'count' them? Why? The issue was "can a human defeat Freeza?", and the answer is clearly "yes, several humans can defeat Freeza". Do you think that they don't count as humans that can beat Freeza because they got their power through being bio-augmented by Gero later in life, rather then being born with all that power, or training to get it? That's like saying that Gohan doesn't count as a saiyan because he got his dormant power unlocked by the Elder Kaioshin, or that Krillin doesn't count as a human because he got his hidden power unlocked by the Great Elder.

[rereboy]

No, it's not. The question was "can any humans take Freeza?". The answer to that question is obviously "yes", as 17, 18, and Uub are all human (yes, someone who has been modified to a low extent like that still counts as human, unless you want to tell some guy with a prosthetic leg or a pacemaker that he's not human).

You are just doing exactly what I stated. You are just relying on the technicality of them being mostly human to group them with the other humans. The obvious intent of the question is not to address the androids at all, but humans like Yamcha and Krillin. But who cares about that, right...? Its better to just insist on the technicality, pretend to not understand the intent of the question, even though following your logic everybody except Goku, Vegeta and Piccolo are humans.

Why do you insist in always denying everything whenever someone is debating with you? I fully get what you are saying about them being basically human, and I never denied it, but you, on the other hand, just deny whatever people argue in a debate with you. Whatever...

Their cyborg nature doesn't make them stronger. Their power is organic;

Don't make me repeat myself. It doesn't matter if their modifications are mechanical or biological, they are still modifications that make them more than human and inherently different when it comes to fighting ability.

[RandomGuy96]

You are just doing exactly what I stated. You are just relying on the technicality of them being mostly human to group them with the other humans. The obvious intent of the question is not to address the androids at all, but humans like Yamcha and Krillin. But who cares about that, right...? Its better to just insist on the technicality, pretend to not understand the intent of the question, even though following your logic everybody except Goku, Vegeta and Piccolo are humans.

They're not "mostly human", unless you don't consider people with artificial limbs to be human. They are human. They can produce offspring and everything. The only cybernetic parts they have are the bomb, the generators, and the thing that shuts them off. They are humans. With human power. Who are stronger than Freeza.

Why do you insist in always denying everything whenever someone is debating with you? I fully get what you are saying about them being basically human, and I never denied it, but you, on the other hand, just deny whatever people argue in a debate with you. Whatever...

The statement was "no human could beat Freeza". The correction was "Uub, 17, and 18 are humans". There's nothing more to it. It's factual and basic. What, exactly, are you trying to prove?

Don't make me repeat myself. It doesn't matter if their modifications are mechanical or biological, they are still modifications that make them more than human and inherently different when it comes to fighting ability.

Nope, they're still just humans. Unless you want to deny that Krillin is human.

[ABED]

Cyborgs don't have ki, which means there's something inherently different about them.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Humans that were modified with bio-organic components to have power they'd otherwise not have under any other circumstances. Once Gero modified them, they were no longer normal humans. Or are you suggesting Gero was simply bringing out power that was already there, Random?

Aside from that, we know Android #17 & &18 would easily pulverize Freeza. Not like it matters, though, since we know he'll most likely be above all of them in the upcoming movie

[hleV]

I like Freeza because he was the strongest non-artificial non-magical mortal being, and he made use of that power. Goku and co. went through a lot in order to become really strong, while Freeza simply existed. A mutant of his own race that is so much above anyone else in the universe, scared of a Saiyan legend which happens to be his doom. So much power that he creates suppressed forms for himself? Gotta give him credit for that.

[RandomGuy96]

Humans that were modified with bio-organic components to have power they'd otherwise not have under any other circumstances. Once Gero modified them, they were no longer normal humans. Or are you suggesting Gero was simply bringing out power that was already there, Random?

Aside from that, we know Android #17 & &18 would easily pulverize Freeza. Not like it matters, though, since we know he'll most likely be above all of them in the upcoming movie

I don't know what he did. I'm just saying that the line between whatever he did to give these two humans such a high ki level, and what Elder Kaioshin did to make Gohan like a thousand times stronger, is a very arbitrary one. The point is, the end result was two humans with organic power far exceeding Freeza. Krillin wouldn't have even exceeded Ginyu without Guru's power-up, but I don't see anyone saying that he doesn't count when talking about human strength.