Do "gags" count? Did they "happen"?

[RandomGuy96]

Is it magic? If it is, the amount of ki Vegetto has shouldn't matter.

Says who?

Magic and ki are not the same thing. Why would the latter have any effect on the former's effectiveness when that's never implied anywhere? Furthermore, since when does being really strong give you the ability to counter magic and speak and think clearly after being transformed into candy? If he just no-sold Buu's beam, that'd be one thing. But the attack clearly worked on him. He transformed into candy, his defenses failed at stopping Buu's magic. Yet he, unlike everybody else who was ever hit with it, still maintained the ability to fight, think, and speak after getting hit. There's no reason that being strong would result in that.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Piccolo could overpower Babidi's magical shield with pure strength, Vegeta could resist Babidi's control, and Babidi's magic was apparently not strong enough to control Boo.

[RandomGuy96]

Piccolo could overpower Babidi's magical shield with pure strength, Vegeta could resist Babidi's control, and Babidi's magic was apparently not strong enough to control Boo.

That's not really the same thing as what's going here (it's a simple barrier vs having a weird, arbitrary effect on a transmutation beam), Vegeta did it due to willpower, Babidi never tried to control Buu and even if he could, Buu's unique physiology and psychology are equally valid reasons for why it wouldn't have worked. Again, if Vegetto just wasn't affected at all, then maybe we could write it off as related to his strength. But the beam clearly overpowered his defenses and turned him into candy against his will. He just randomly maintained the ability to speak and fight after it, which no one ever did and despite lacking, you know, a mouth, which there is absolutely no explanation for besides pure magic.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

The thing is, Vegetto showed no magical abilities. The only relation he has with magic is the way he was created, which doesn't mean that he was granted magical abilities.

But maybe you are right, or maybe I'm right, or maybe we are putting too much thought into it since it was partially a gag.

[RandomGuy96]

The thing is, Vegetto showed no magical abilities. The only relation he has with magic is the way he was created, which doesn't mean that he was granted magical abilities.

But maybe you are right, or maybe I'm right, or maybe we are putting too much thought into it since it was partially a gag.

He did show a magical ability: speaking without a mouth or vocal chords or anything else that'd let him speak. That, and being formed by a pair of magic earrings. Just because he never used magic in any other way doesn't mean he doesn't have properties that'd make him have weird interactions with magic, which seems to be the case here. While it was a gag, it's not as easy to dismiss as the others, because what happened in it wasn't technically impossible going by the rules they were working off of.

[Zephyr]

He did show a magical ability: speaking without a mouth or vocal chords or anything else that'd let him speak. That, and being formed by a pair of magic earrings. Just because he never used magic in any other way doesn't mean he doesn't have properties that'd make him have weird interactions with magic, which seems to be the case here. While it was a gag, it's not as easy to dismiss as the others, because what happened in it wasn't technically impossible going by the rules they were working off of.

Couldn't we use magic to explain other gags then? Sure, you could say "but it's never implied that X character should have magical abilities", to which I'd reply that neither is it for Vegetto here. And yet, that's the only explanation, and it's one that is willingly being taken despite no indication that anything should work like that.

[RandomGuy96]

He did show a magical ability: speaking without a mouth or vocal chords or anything else that'd let him speak. That, and being formed by a pair of magic earrings. Just because he never used magic in any other way doesn't mean he doesn't have properties that'd make him have weird interactions with magic, which seems to be the case here. While it was a gag, it's not as easy to dismiss as the others, because what happened in it wasn't technically impossible going by the rules they were working off of.

Couldn't we use magic to explain other gags then? Sure, you could say "but it's never implied that X character should have magical abilities", to which I'd reply that neither is it for Vegetto here. And yet, that's the only explanation, and it's one that is willingly being taken despite no indication that anything should work like that.

He's a being made from magic who is wearing magic earrings, so unlike those cases, magic being the explanation wouldn't be coming out of nowhere. The guidebooks also support the "it was magic" interpretation, by noting that his power doesn't change even when his form does (i.e. transmutation in general just won't work on Vegetto, no matter how strong it is).

[Zephyr]

That's a fair point. Though you'd think if it was the Potara fusion itself, the guidebooks would note that Potara fusions in general aren't subject to transmutation, rather than simply Vegetto. It makes it sound like Vegetto is simply an anomaly.

[Kamiccolo9]

That's a fair point. Though you'd think if it was the Potara fusion itself, the guidebooks would note that Potara fusions in general aren't subject to transmutation, rather than simply Vegetto. It makes it sound like Vegetto is simply an anomaly.

The others were never in a situation where it would have mattered, so there was no point in bringing them up.

[RandomGuy96]

That's a fair point. Though you'd think if it was the Potara fusion itself, the guidebooks would note that Potara fusions in general aren't subject to transmutation, rather than simply Vegetto. It makes it sound like Vegetto is simply an anomaly.

I don't think there'd really be a reason to mention the others, as they never got hit by a transmutation beam. Still, the comment is pretty clear that Vegetto's strength didn't really factor in to the equation. It just says that transmutation absolutely doesn't work on him, no ifs, ands, or buts, because of his "special properties". If he shrugged off the Candy Beam because of his strength, then logically a Candy Beam fired by a strong enough Buu would be able to kill him, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

[Zephyr]

I get that. It's just that their lack of actually specifying if it was a "Potara fusions in general" thing, and simply pointing out Vegetto, makes it seem like it's not at all a rule that Potara fusions in general would react that way.

I'm not trying to say that it's hard to accept or anything, there's tons of precedence for Buu-Kaioshin magic being weird when mixed.

And I'm aware that Vegetto's strength isn't much of a reliable reason for why he would suddenly react differently to Buu's magic. He just seems weird in every regard, even compared to everyone else like him. I mean, he's able to make a barrier that shields him from the magical air inside of Buu that, as far as we can tell, simply doesn't mesh well with Kaioshin magic. Which means he's able to protect himself from Buu's magic. Is he using ki to do that? Can ki do that? Is he using another ability that runs on Kaioshin magic? I'm not sure that would suffice as an explanation, as the air inside of Buu was shown to disrupt that very magic, so I don't see how it could suddenly defend against Buu's magic. Maybe an "active" Kaioshin magic ability can overcome Buu's magic, but a "passive" one cannot? Maybe it's his ridiculously immense ki power and his access to Kaioshin magic working in tandem?