Is Tenshinhan considered human? Tenshinhan vs Kuririn

Godo · Post by **Godo** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:56 am

How do you define immortal? I define it as you can get beaten up, but the damage dissappears fast, leaving no scratch. So can there be a possibility of Zenkai's?
Or, if he gets "revived" after getting beaten into death, then he has died to get "revived", thus no zenkai?

I'm confused.

Casual Matt · Post by **Casual Matt** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:01 pm

Godo wrote:How do you define immortal? I define it as you can get beaten up, but the damage dissappears fast, leaving no scratch. So can there be a possibility of Zenkai's?
Or, if he gets "revived" after getting beaten into death, then he has died to get "revived", thus no zenkai?

I'm confused.

It's easier to just think that immortal = can't die.

Garlic Jr was immortal, but he could still get hurt. I mean Gohan went right through him. He just didn't stay hurt.

Godo · Post by **Godo** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:54 pm

The Lecherous Muten Roshi wrote:
Godo wrote:How do you define immortal? I define it as you can get beaten up, but the damage dissappears fast, leaving no scratch. So can there be a possibility of Zenkai's?
Or, if he gets "revived" after getting beaten into death, then he has died to get "revived", thus no zenkai?

I'm confused.
It's easier to just think that immortal = can't die.

Garlic Jr was immortal, but he could still get hurt. I mean Gohan went right through him. He just didn't stay hurt.

If you get get hurt, no zenkais, am I true? Because of that there is no near death experience.
Correct me if I am wrong.

Mr.Piccolo · Post by **Mr.Piccolo** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:19 pm

Now thinking about it Tenshinhan has to be an alien because people that have trained under the "Crane Master" don't use the techniques like he does. Sigh, I still like to believe that Tenshinhan is the strongest human because I don't want Yamcha to ever get that title, No.18 is a special case, and Krillin is too much of a goofy character to be the strongest anything imo.

Bardock the Mexican · Post by **Bardock the Mexican** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:22 pm

Mr.Piccolo wrote:Now thinking about it Tenshinhan has to be an alien because people that have trained under the "Crane Master" don't use the techniques like he does. Sigh, I still like to believe that Tenshinhan is the strongest human because I don't want Yamcha to ever get that title, No.18 is a special case, and Krillin is too much of a goofy character to be the strongest anything imo.

It's not the fact that he uses different powers than the other crane students. It could simply be an indicator that he had a history before his tutlage under Tsuru sen'nin. There is so much we don't know only because Toriyama hasn't revealed it completely. It's not to say that he isn't a alien. I just veiw him as someone who has acended the bonds of what we call normal.

kinoko · Post by **kinoko** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:43 pm

Mr.Piccolo wrote:Now thinking about it Tenshinhan has to be an alien because people that have trained under the "Crane Master" don't use the techniques like he does. Sigh, I still like to believe that Tenshinhan is the strongest human because I don't want Yamcha to ever get that title, No.18 is a special case, and Krillin is too much of a goofy character to be the strongest anything imo.

D'you mean techniques like the Kikoho and Dodonpa? The latter is a lot like the Tsuru-senryu version of the Kamehameha, and it's also utilized pretty heavily by both Tao Pai Pai and Chaozu. Then there's the Taiyoken, which is used by Goku and Kuririn.

But I kind of see where you're coming from, especially with the Kikoho. I wonder if that was developed by Tenshinhan himself. That would be interesting...

Oh, and regarding those attacks - the Shiyoken and Shishin no ken - I always thought Tenshinhan created them (I don't know why I didn't mention this earlier.) And that his third eye somehow allows him to tap into that -- Shiva is linked to creation (as well as, primarily with, destruction.)

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:49 pm

kinoko wrote:But I kind of see where you're coming from, especially with the Kikoho. I wonder if that was developed by Tenshinhan himself. That would be interesting...

No, Crane Master taught it to him.

kinoko · Post by **kinoko** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:10 pm

Rocketman wrote:
kinoko wrote:But I kind of see where you're coming from, especially with the Kikoho. I wonder if that was developed by Tenshinhan himself. That would be interesting...
No, Crane Master taught it to him.

Truly? XD That's even more interesting..
I need to reread...

Mr. Announcer · Post by **Mr. Announcer** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:28 pm

Well yeah, I would definitely assume that Crane Master taught it to him considering Master Roushi knew about the attack without ever having met Tenshinhan before.

Casual Matt · Post by **Casual Matt** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:34 pm

Mr. Announcer wrote:Well yeah, I would definitely assume that Crane Master taught it to him considering Master Roushi knew about the attack without ever having met Tenshinhan before.

I don't know if it's in the original, but in the Blue Water dub, Master Roshi exclaimed something along the lines of 'I can't believe that crane would teach such a dangerous move to someone.'

Victator Supreme · Post by **Victator Supreme** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:27 pm

Its in the comic too.

kinoko · Post by **kinoko** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:46 pm

Mr. Announcer wrote:Well yeah, I would definitely assume that Crane Master taught it to him considering Master Roushi knew about the attack without ever having met Tenshinhan before.

XD I remembered that like a minute after I replied to your ...reply (did that make sense?) +is dumb+

...I should have known that, too! ;-;

(Pssst, hey, Guy... Would it be okie if I feature some of your (Tenshinhan)art on my website? ^_____^ Will credit and link back and all that jazz. I've fallen in love with your stuff, man. Many thanks. [edit] The reason I called you "Guy" was because of your DA name... not realizing that you go by "Mr. Announcer" here. +laughs+ Sorry about that..)

Drunken Master · Post by **Drunken Master** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:33 pm

I don't think Tsuru-sen'nin knew how to use the kikoho. It was probably like the kaio-ken and genki-dama and North Kaio. Roshi says it's a forbidden technique, which makes me think it has nothing to do with the crane-style. Only Tenshinhan can use it, which adds to the fire.

Victator Supreme · Post by **Victator Supreme** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:51 am

How do you define immortal? I define it as you can get beaten up, but the damage dissappears fast, leaving no scratch. So can there be a possibility of Zenkai's?
Or, if he gets "revived" after getting beaten into death, then he has died to get "revived", thus no zenkai?

I think nobody really knows what would happen. As Old Kaioshin said in DBZ #26 (DB #42), the Dragonballs are like cosmic cheat codes. So who knows how immortality would effect a Saiyan. There would be two scenerios

1. The power up kicks in after a severe beating that would be near death for a none immortal (immortal doesn't = Invulnerble).

2. Vegeta hits a dead end in power.

About the Kikoho. The way Roshi spoke of it, its clear others had used it. I think Tenshinhan is the first one not to be killed by it.

Either one is possible. I think its like the dying while dead thing. Its never occured, so who knows what would happen?

Mr.Piccolo · Post by **Mr.Piccolo** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:32 am

Drunken Master wrote:I don't think Tsuru-sen'nin knew how to use the kikoho. It was probably like the kaio-ken and genki-dama and North Kaio. Roshi says it's a forbidden technique, which makes me think it has nothing to do with the crane-style. Only Tenshinhan can use it, which adds to the fire.

So it is safe to assume the dodompa is the Kamehameha of the crane-style. For Tenshinhan to use the kikoho and later to create the neo-kikoho means that it really is his technique if no one else uses it (besides the Cell Jrs. but you know what I mean..) As for Roshi mentioning "forbidden techniques" I believe that line is crossed especially in Dragonball Z when everyone's technique is used by everyone else. The two most dangerous moves imo are the Genki Dama and the Kaioken. And also the mafuba.. I'm too lazy to quote but whoever made that comment about Tenshinhan and Shiva or something made a good point. I like that whole nirvana theme with Ten and that seems like one of the few contributing posts on this expanding thread.

kinoko · Post by **kinoko** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:10 pm

I know I'm bringing it back to whether Tenshinhan learned the Kikoho from Tsuru-sennin (thus explaining why Kame-sennin realized what it was..) But could that technique be somehow connected to Mutaito, the Crane and Turtle Masters' teacher? ^^

Just wondering...

Mr.Piccolo · Post by **Mr.Piccolo** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:14 pm

Kinoko, your comment makes me think if Roshi created the kamehameha or just mastered it..? I'm leaning towards created but what techniques could've Mutaito taught them if his students only really use their custom techniques, besides the mafuba..? Wow, all this talk as of late has really boosted my respect for Tenshinhan. I mean if Piccolo cried as much as Vegeta did, Ten would so be my favorite character.

About the Kikoho. The way Roshi spoke of it, its clear others had used it. I think Tenshinhan is the first one not to be killed by it.

Try using that logic in Sparking!..

kinoko · Post by **kinoko** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:26 pm

Mr.Piccolo wrote:Kinoko, your comment makes me think if Roshi created the kamehameha or just mastered it..? I'm leaning towards created but what techniques could've Mutaito taught them if his students only really use their custom techniques, besides the mafuba..? Wow, all this talk as of late has really boosted my respect for Tenshinhan. I mean if Piccolo cried as much as Vegeta did, Ten would so be my favorite character.

Y'know... I've always believed (I dunno, it's from being Tenshinhan-obsessed for 8 years now..) that Tenshinhan created quite a few of his techniques - the Shiyoken and Shishin no Ken in particular, alien origin be damned. Just because he seems creative like that. XD Maybe I'll use the line where he says [paraphrased] that he'll "learn what he can from Kaio-sama and then add a few twists of his own." Makes me think he's been inclined to do that.

Who knows with the Kamehameha, and the like... I mean, I like the idea that Kame-sennin created the Kamehameha (afterall it bears part of his name,) or maybe like Tenshinhan, tweaked something he learned from Mutaito.

I'm really loving this thread, let me tell you. ^^

Mr.Piccolo · Post by **Mr.Piccolo** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:32 pm

I'm really loving this thread, let me tell you. ^^

It's no fair.. my favorite character isn't as mysterious as Tenshinhan. I'm considering a pointless thread that parodies this but its about Piccolo: Is he a namekian or saiyan

.. [/off-topic]

Are Mutaito's techniques ever fully disclosed..? I don't know as much about DragonBall as I do Z, but when I think of techniques and Mutaito the only thing that comes to mind is the mafuba. Well, like most threads, this will only lead to more speculation and no answers and that just drives me crazy. Toriyama owes it to the fans to write a daizenshuu himself to answer these questions that have been asked for years and Mr. Piccolo deserves a dedication page because he is so the first person who thought of that.. 'sup 200th post

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 3:52 pm

Mr.Piccolo wrote:Toriyama owes it to the fans to write a daizenshuu himself to answer these questions that have been asked for years

Mr. Toriyama is way too absent minded for that.