Am I the only one who hates all these new movies?

[Dbzk1999]

They just rehash old ideas (Lord Slug, Metal Coola and Super 13) or making something that is boring and generic.

You know, people always say that, but Cooler, at least, isn't really a rehash of anything besides being Freeza's brother. His goals and motivations are both different, especially in M6. I'm not really sure what people claim that Metal Cooler is ripping off of anyway, since he's nothing like Freeza by that point, and the only thing he has in common with the Androids is that he's a machine.

It's not cooler himself
It's the movie's plot

[Kamiccolo9]

They just rehash old ideas (Lord Slug, Metal Coola and Super 13) or making something that is boring and generic.

You know, people always say that, but Cooler, at least, isn't really a rehash of anything besides being Freeza's brother. His goals and motivations are both different, especially in M6. I'm not really sure what people claim that Metal Cooler is ripping off of anyway, since he's nothing like Freeza by that point, and the only thing he has in common with the Androids is that he's a machine.

It's not cooler himself
It's the movie's plot

How so?

[Hellspawn28]

Metal Coola felt like a rehash of Cyber Freeza to me. Both Coola and Freeza got nearly killed from SSj Goku and got their bodies rip into pieces then they both got synthetic modications after they were nearly killed. The only difference is that Metal Coola didn't get his ass kick super fast like his brother did.

[Kamiccolo9]

Metal Coola felt like a rehash of Cyber Freeza to me. Both Coola and Freeza got nearly killed from SSj Goku and got their bodies rip into pieces then they both got synthetic modications after they were nearly killed. The only difference is that Metal Coola didn't get his ass kick super fast like his brother did.

That, and that the characters are absolutely nothing alike. Mecha Freeza was essentially the same character he was before he got blown up. Cooler totally changed his methods, his goals, his power set, actually won his fight with the Super Saiyans, and wasn't used to promote Toriyama's pet character of the month.

But I guess if you don't look any deeper than "cyborg version of a previous villain," then yeah, I suppose their similar.

[i'mfuckingevil]

the original Star Wars films will always be the only true canon in the Star Wars world.

it has been established by someone on an earlier page that the star wars films new and upcoming are all still a part of the same canon. it isn't the same as the discussion we are having here about BOG and the rest of the new DBZmovies.

[hleV]

Yeah, contradictory material in Dragon Ball can really only be judged by its degree of lameness. Much of the contradictions in the manga at least build towards cool new scenarios, like the aforementioned Red Ribbon Army arc. Most of the contradictions in GT on the other hand introduce nothing but stupidity to the story, and this is coming from someone who actually likes the series (as a non-canonical what-if scenario, but still).

Finally someone who gets it. Contradictions in the original DB mostly have an excuse for their existence (they could've been avoided, but Toriyama). Contradictions in other DB media... mostly don't, and simply are mistakes that shouldn't have been there.

[Zephyr]

The editors could have caught them in the manga, too.

[rereboy]

Contradictions in the manga are also mistakes that shouldn't be there. Neither has an excuse. The only difference is that in one of them the mistakes are made by the author and in the other the mistakes are done by other people.

[hleV]

Contradictions in the manga are also mistakes that shouldn't be there. Neither has an excuse. The only difference is that in one of them the mistakes are made by the author and in the other the mistakes are done by other people.

In order for the plot to advance the way one wants and not being able to go back in time and alter what's already done, making a contradiction, even if not consciously, is still, to an extent, an excuse. We're talking about a series that ran for 10 years here, with the plot being thought up on the go. A few contradictions here and there don't justify a whole bunch of them in ~1 hour movies.

The movies are ~1 hour stories whose scripts were written before the actual production. Surely the scripts could've been altered to avoid contradictions? This only concerns the movies that supposedly try to tie into the manga continuity, of course.

[rereboy]

That's just about how understandable those mistakes are, nothing else. In short, you are saying that mistakes done by the author in the conditions he had to make the manga are more understandable than the mistakes done by the anime staff. Sure, but they are still mistakes with no real excuse or purpose for being there.

In terms of validity and what is canon and such, I don't think that them being more understandable is a relevant factor.

[hleV]

In terms of validity and what is canon and such, I don't think that them being more understandable is a relevant factor.

I think that, in addition to how often those contradictions happened in DB, is a very important factor when comparing DB to the "tie-in" movies.
"DB has a few contradictions, so it's okay for a 1 hour movie to have just as much! It's the same kind of DB guys". Yeah not very convincing.

[rereboy]

Seems perfectly convincing to me. I wouldn't judge whether a movie has validity or is canon or not based on the fact that it has a few little mistakes.

[hleV]

How about the fact that the movies produce mistakes within a way shorter periods of time? If you consider 1 or 2 chapters an episode, then DB's contradictions are what, 1% of movies' contradictions? That's a whole lotta difference to me.

[rereboy]

Not relevant, imo. The only factors relevant, in my opinion, are:

- who is making the movie, aka who are the authors;
- if there are significant irreconcilably contradictions that can not be considered to be little mistakes due to lack of attention and whatnot.

[hleV]

What factors decide the canonicity is up to the individual to decide, but contradiction probability does make DB and the movies different in that regard, and by a huge margin. So... DB and movies are not a similar experience.

[rereboy]

You will notice that I included contradictions in the factors that I considered relevant... but not ALL contradictions.

[ParkerAL]

I want to make it clear that I am fine with mistakes in both Toriyama and Toei's Dragon Ball work as long as they help support cool new scenarios and story concepts. I don't think Toriyama has a bigger excuse for introducing mistakes, like hleV seems to think I did when he quoted me. If Toriyama introduces plot contradiction that I don't like, I'll call him out on them. Its all a matter of whether or not the contradictions impact my enjoyment of the series. Usually they don't.

[i'mfuckingevil]

What factors decide the canonicity is up to the individual to decide, but contradiction probability does make DB and the movies different in that regard, and by a huge margin. So... DB and movies are not a similar experience.

There's no contradictions I can think of except for the inconsistencies with Buu.

[JamesOwnz]

Who cares abou the old movies? they were trash and Battle of Gods was great.. I'm assuming the new one will be as well.

[i'mfuckingevil]

Who cares abou the old movies? they were trash and Battle of Gods was great.. I'm assuming the new one will be as well.

I beg to differ. But obviously that is your opinion and you're just expressing it as fact. Dead Zone, Lord Slug, Broly series, Cooler series, Bojack, Wrath of the Dragon >>>>> BOG.