Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection 'F'"

[RandomGuy96]

Better plot twist: vegeta becomes a bad guy

For that to even qualify as a twist, he would have to be good at some point. He's not and never has been. He's evil, he's always been evil, and he has never felt bad about being evil. Outside of some of the anime, I guess.

[EmmaWinters]

Better plot twist: vegeta becomes a bad guy

For that to even qualify as a twist, he would have to be good at some point. He's not and never has been. He's evil, he's always been evil, and he has never felt bad about being evil. Outside of some of the anime, I guess.

I thought the manga made it pretty clear that he turned himself around near the end. Why do you think he's still evil?

[sintzu]

For that to even qualify as a twist, he would have to be good at some point.

Didn't you see the end of the Buu arc and BOG ?

[RandomGuy96]

Better plot twist: vegeta becomes a bad guy

For that to even qualify as a twist, he would have to be good at some point. He's not and never has been. He's evil, he's always been evil, and he has never felt bad about being evil. Outside of some of the anime, I guess.

I thought the manga made it pretty clear that he turned himself around near the end. Why do you think he's still evil?

Because he's still incredibly evil in the Buu arc? Because he doesn't actually do anything good to make up for how previous actions, and rather decides to keep fucking things up even into the battle with Pure Buu? Because he never expresses regret for the millions if not billions of innocents he slaughtered?

[godku23]

Because he's still incredibly evil in the Buu arc? Because he doesn't actually do anything good to make up for how previous actions, and rather decides to keep fucking things up even into the battle with Pure Buu? Because he never expresses regret for the millions if not billions of innocents he slaughtered?[/quote]
I see Vegeta as a chaotic neutral.

[Marco Polo]

Vegeta is a good guy. He was revived with the good guys in the Buu arc. He was able to contribute to the Super Saiyan God ritual in Battle of Gods. And now with this film there are even hints that he is being trained by a God in a godly realm.

[RandomGuy96]

Vegeta is a good guy. He was able to contribute to the Super Saiyan God ritual. And now with this film there are even hints that he is being trained by a God in a godly realm.

That's just proof that the ritual is either bullshit or has extremely low standards.

[Marco Polo]

Vegeta is a good guy. He was able to contribute to the Super Saiyan God ritual. And now with this film there are even hints that he is being trained by a God in a godly realm.

That's just proof that the ritual is either bullshit or has extremely low standards.

No, it means that Vegeta qualifies as a good guy. Maybe your definition of evil is simply not the same as the one used in DB. Remember it's a fictional work; it's using its own definitions of things. They don't have to be the same definitions as yours.

[omegalucas]

I think it's Vegeta (probably regular Vegeta) because of the blue aura. He's usually portrayed with a purple or blue outline in his aura, as opposed to Goku's white.

Spoiler:

That looks blue to me.

That's the Kamehameha's effect and happened in Battle of Gods as well. If you look closely and compare it to the other image you'll note that this one has a lighter color.
The one in the trailer looks more like this:

[EmmaWinters]

Because he's still incredibly evil in the Buu arc?

Sure, for awhile. His "sacrifice" was strongly rooted in selfishness, but he still gave his life for the safety of everyone/the planet.

Because he never expresses regret for the millions if not billions of innocents he slaughtered?

So he's still evil because he didn't apologize individually to those he killed at the tournament?

Because he doesn't actually do anything good to make up for how previous actions

Yes he does.
He goes back to fight, knowing that if he dies again, he ceases to exist.
He gives up his individuality forever (so he thinks) when he fuses with Goku.
He agrees to buy Goku the time he needs, knowing that he could die very easily.
Additionally, he came up with the idea of using the Genki-Dama himself.

and rather decides to keep fucking things up even into the battle with Pure Buu?

The only thing he did to fuck up the fight was get himself beaten trying to help. Is that evil?

I don't really understand how anyone could come to the conclusion that Vegeta is evil at the end of Dragon Ball. He was selfish early on, sure, but afterwards he went above and beyond for everyone, and finally put his jealousy of Goku behind him.

[RandomGuy96]

Vegeta is a good guy. He was able to contribute to the Super Saiyan God ritual. And now with this film there are even hints that he is being trained by a God in a godly realm.

That's just proof that the ritual is either bullshit or has extremely low standards.

No, it means that Vegeta qualifies as a good guy. Maybe your definition of evil is simply not the same as the one used in DB. Remember it's a fictional work; it's using its own definitions of things. They don't have to be the same definitions as yours.

No, it means that the ritual doesn't actually require you to be a good guy. If an unrepentant mass murderer who killed billions can perform the ritual, then there really shouldn't be anyone that can't.

Sure, for awhile. His "sacrifice" was strongly rooted in selfishness, but he still gave his life for the safety of everyone/the planet.

Wanting to preserve your child isn't selflessness per se. And he only had to blow himself up because he released Buu.

he's still evil because he didn't apologize individually to those he killed at the tournament?

Not just that. He never expressed any regret for any of the people he killed. His morals didn't change, only his alignment and position.

Yes he does.

No he doesn't.

He goes back to fight, knowing that if he dies again, he ceases to exist.
He gives up his individuality forever (so he thinks) when he fuses with Goku.
He agrees to buy Goku the time he needs, knowing that he could die very easily.
Additionally, he came up with the idea of using the Genki-Dama himself.

Because he has no other options.

Because Buu was going to kill them anyway. And even then, he had to be talked into it because he's such a selfish and whiny bitch; he was essentially willing to doom the universe out of spite before Goku talked sense into him.

For extremely dumb reasons that only he cares about.

Yes, let's all praise Vegeta for going with the over complicated and shitty plan that could doom the universe, rather than just bringing Vegetto, Gogeta, Gotenks, or Gohan.

The only thing he did to fuck up the fight was get himself beaten trying to help. Is that evil?

He crushed the Potara. He refused to just do the damn fusion dance. He refused to bring Gohan to one-shot Buu because he thought the Earthlings should take responsibility for his mess.

[godku23]

Because he's still incredibly evil in the Buu arc?

Sure, for awhile. His "sacrifice" was strongly rooted in selfishness, but he still gave his life for the safety of everyone/the planet.

Because he never expresses regret for the millions if not billions of innocents he slaughtered?

So he's still evil because he didn't apologize individually to those he killed at the tournament?

Because he doesn't actually do anything good to make up for how previous actions

Yes he does.
He goes back to fight, knowing that if he dies again, he ceases to exist.
He gives up his individuality forever (so he thinks) when he fuses with Goku.
He agrees to buy Goku the time he needs, knowing that he could die very easily.
Additionally, he came up with the idea of using the Genki-Dama himself.

and rather decides to keep fucking things up even into the battle with Pure Buu?

The only thing he did to fuck up the fight was get himself beaten trying to help. Is that evil?

I don't really understand how anyone could come to the conclusion that Vegeta is evil at the end of Dragon Ball. He was selfish early on, sure, but afterwards he went above and beyond for everyone, and finally put his jealousy of Goku behind him.

Sorry was trying to quote but something happened I was saying Vegeta is more neutral

[EmmaWinters]

Sorry was trying to quote but something happened I was saying Vegeta is more neutral

Haha, my fault. I didn't check closely enough; I'll fix my post.

[Marco Polo]

No, it means that Vegeta qualifies as a good guy. Maybe your definition of evil is simply not the same as the one used in DB. Remember it's a fictional work; it's using its own definitions of things. They don't have to be the same definitions as yours.

No, it means that the ritual doesn't actually require you to be a good guy. If an unrepentant mass murderer who killed billions can perform the ritual, then there really shouldn't be anyone that can't.

So yeah you're just confirming that you're annoyed because your definition of evil is not the same as the one that Toriyama and Toei used for Vegeta. I'm sorry that you are wrong.

Feel free to keep that opinion while the rest of the world enjoy Vegeta grow as a character and have a big role in this new film defending the good guys and, perhaps, defeating Freeza to save his love, his family, his friends and the world.

[EmmaWinters]

unrepentant mass murderer who killed billions

How do you know he's unrepentant at the end? Will you only be convinced if Toriyama himself draws a chapter where Vegeta goes to confession?

[RandomGuy96]

unrepentant mass murderer who killed billions

How do you know he's unrepentant at the end? Will you only be convinced if Toriyama himself draws a chapter where Vegeta goes to confession?

Because he never repents or shows any remorse for murdering a whole planet at the beginning of the Saiyan arc, having all of Goku's friends killed, trying to blow up the Earth, slaughtering an entire village out of pure sadism after rebelling against Freeza, bragging about it on Earth, helping Semi-Cell absorb 18 by beating up Trunks (leading to the deaths of millions more), slaughtering hundreds of people at the tournament and nearly killing his 'wife' just to fight Goku, releasing Majin Buu (leading to the deaths of billions), trying to doom the universe just to spite Goku, risking the universe to have fun fighting Pure Buu, and tons of other stuff.

[Marco Polo]

unrepentant mass murderer who killed billions

How do you know he's unrepentant at the end? Will you only be convinced if Toriyama himself draws a chapter where Vegeta goes to confession?

Because he never repents or shows any remorse for murdering a whole planet at the beginning of the Saiyan arc, having all of Goku's friends killed, trying to blow up the Earth, slaughtering an entire village out of pure sadism after rebelling against Freeza, bragging about it on Earth, helping Semi-Cell absorb 18 by beating up Trunks (leading to the deaths of millions more), slaughtering hundreds of people at the tournament and nearly killing his 'wife' just to fight Goku, releasing Majin Buu (leading to the deaths of billions), trying to doom the universe just to spite Goku, risking the universe to have fun fighting Pure Buu, and tons of other stuff.

That's called a plothole or poor writing. It doesn't change the fact that Vegeta is officially a good guy.

[RandomGuy96]

Why try to make a plot hole where there doesn't need to be one? BOG and the associated material has enough as it is. The simplest explanation is that you don't actually have to be a good guy.

[Marco Polo]

Why try to make a plot hole where there doesn't need to be one? BOG and the associated material has enough as it is. The simplest explanation is that you don't actually have to be a good guy.

Toriyama has filled the series with plotholes and poor writing. DB is an awesome manga but we all know it's true. The simplest explanation is that it's another of those poorly written details. It makes more sense as an explanation than saying that the ritual to summon a good god-like figure can just involve evil summoners. It also makes more sense as an explanation than saying that Shenron's explicit description of the SSG ritual was wrong even though no one in the film states after the successful ritual that it was wrong.

[EmmaWinters]

I wouldn't even call this a plothole.
Why do we need a scene where Vegeta says he's sorry before we know he's good?