Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection 'F'"

[Ajay]

I wouldn't even call this a plothole.
Why do we need a scene where Vegeta says he's sorry before we know he's good?

Because apparently we're not smart enough as a fanbase to notice his personality change.

It's not a plothole. Surely we don't need something spelt out to notice his evolution. We're smarter than that, right?

[Kamiccolo9]

I wouldn't even call this a plothole.
Why do we need a scene where Vegeta says he's sorry before we know he's good?

Because apparently we're not smart enough as a fanbase to notice his personality change.

It's not a plothole. Surely we don't need something spelt out to notice his evolution. We're smarter than that, right?

Because some people seem to feel it necessary to argue with what's directly stated in the manga.

They wished all the good people back. Vegeta came back. Ergo, as far as the Dragon Ball universe is concerned, Vegeta is good. It's that simple.

[RandomGuy96]

Why try to make a plot hole where there doesn't need to be one? BOG and the associated material has enough as it is. The simplest explanation is that you don't actually have to be a good guy.

Toriyama has filled the series with plotholes and poor writing. DB is an awesome manga but we all know it's true. The simplest explanation is that it's another of those poorly written details. It makes more sense as an explanation than saying that the ritual to summon a good god-like figure can just involve evil summoners. It also makes more sense as an explanation than saying that Shenron's explicit description of the SSG ritual was wrong even though no one in the film states after the successful ritual that it was wrong.

Again, that's possible, but I just don't see the point in inserting a plot hole where there doesn't have to be one.

They wished all the good people back. Vegeta came back. Ergo, as far as the Dragon Ball universe is concerned, Vegeta is good. It's that simple.

The only ones who were excluded from coming back were the really evil ones. They didn't only wish back the good ones, otherwise Pilaf wouldn't be alive. Also, that just comes down to the dragon's opinion of morality. As Vegeta has consistently been an evil prick his entire life, has racked up a bigger body count than Hitler, Stalin, and Mao combined, never showed any remorse for his atrocities, and never made up for them (by contrast, he continues to endanger the universe at the very end of the manga), I fail to see how anyone could call him good. Just because he has a basic sense of self-preservation (sometimes) doesn't mean he's not evil.

[Low Tone G]

Who else does think, the one from the left is (God)Vegeta?

Spoiler:

I do but i doubt they'll show it or any other big thing any time soon.

Didn't we get Ssjg Goku a month or less before the movie opened ?

I'm basing my assumption as that guy is Vegeta, because if you are checking it out carefully, the left one doesn't have any of Goku's colours, he seems to have white close, which colour goes fine with Vegeta's new outfit. Maybe the two auras are intentionally coloured wrongly as the fight seem to be too fierce for a normal non-godly clash, and both Freeza and the other guy(be it either Goku or Vegeta) are coloured wtih some lower auras. Or another explanation might be that Vegeta did manage to absorb the God power just like Goku did. Or Vegeta was already upgraded into a God by Whis(and he doesn't even need a ritual to do it) as he is now worthy to be trained by him. Maybe Whis taught him how to maintain the God power.

I'm worried about something....

Maybe the movie will be about that Freeza's power is a non-godly one, so it can be sensed by anyone, still will be able to compete a god power. That would make be heavily angry. I'm still hoping that there many wrongly made material in the trailers, and they will turn out to be altered for promotional purposes, just like how Goku's second God transformation's scene was changed. The whitish-blue aura was transformed into a fire-like one in the final version of the movie. I really hope Gohan's SSJ case is just like this one.

[Kamiccolo9]

They wished all the good people back. Vegeta came back. Ergo, as far as the Dragon Ball universe is concerned, Vegeta is good. It's that simple.

The only ones who were excluded from coming back were the really evil ones. They didn't only wish back the good ones, otherwise Pilaf wouldn't be alive. Also, that just comes down to the dragon's opinion of morality. As Vegeta has consistently been an evil prick his entire life, has racked up a bigger body count than Hitler, Stalin, and Mao combined, never showed any remorse for his atrocities, and never made up for them (by contrast, he continues to endanger the universe at the very end of the manga), I fail to see how anyone could call him good. Just because he has a basic sense of self-preservation (sometimes) doesn't mean he's not evil.

He's not endangering anyone, except maybe Goku, who's fine with it. If things don't turn out working, Kaioshin could go and get and restore Gohan at any time. He's obviously not considered evil, in BoG he is written as having a righteous heart, and Goku even says as much when he see's that he was brought back to life.

You don't like it. Fine. It doesn't matter.

[Hugo Boss]

Well, Dragon Ball's logic seems to suggest people who fight for someone beyond themselves can be considered good, despite bad actions in the past. Vegeta did a bunch of things to redeem himself, c'mon. He even plays a stupid dance just for the sake of Earth. It's not like he is an example of good person, but he is definetely not the same mass murderer we saw earlier. I think he just came with the best plan there was to save the universe, bringing Gohan and Gotenks to fight Kid Boo could be a problem.

[RandomGuy96]

They wished all the good people back. Vegeta came back. Ergo, as far as the Dragon Ball universe is concerned, Vegeta is good. It's that simple.

The only ones who were excluded from coming back were the really evil ones. They didn't only wish back the good ones, otherwise Pilaf wouldn't be alive. Also, that just comes down to the dragon's opinion of morality. As Vegeta has consistently been an evil prick his entire life, has racked up a bigger body count than Hitler, Stalin, and Mao combined, never showed any remorse for his atrocities, and never made up for them (by contrast, he continues to endanger the universe at the very end of the manga), I fail to see how anyone could call him good. Just because he has a basic sense of self-preservation (sometimes) doesn't mean he's not evil.

He's not endangering anyone, except maybe Goku, who's fine with it. If things don't turn out working, Kaioshin could go and get and restore Gohan at any time. He's obviously not considered evil, in BoG he is written as having a righteous heart, and Goku even says as much when he see's that he was brought back to life.

You don't like it. Fine. It doesn't matter.

That wasn't a possibility. Kaioshin gave too much ki to the Genki Dama. He couldn't teleport anymore. There was really nothing stopping Pure Buu from just going from planet to planet and blowing them up until there was nothing left. Goku basically said as such when he said that if they didn't stop Pure Buu, the universe would go "poof".

Again, that's just proof that the ritual was bullshit or had really low standards. Same with the revival (if Vegeta doesn't qualify as really, really evil, who does, exactly?).

Vegeta did a bunch of things to redeem himself, c'mon. He even plays a stupid dance just for the sake of Earth.

He did nothing to redeem himself. Even his actions in BOG are simple self-preservation. He lives on Earth now, remember. The only times he ever did anything heroic were in movie 13 and GT.

[Kamiccolo9]

That wasn't a possibility. Kaioshin gave too much ki to the Genki Dama. He couldn't teleport anymore. There was really nothing stopping Pure Buu from just going from planet to planet and blowing them up until there was nothing left. Goku basically said as such when he said that if they didn't stop Pure Buu, the universe would go "poof".

Again, that's just proof that the ritual was bullshit or had really low standards. Same with the revival (if Vegeta doesn't qualify as really, really evil, who does, exactly?).

He teleports after the fight, so that doesn't seem to be a problem. And Dende was still capable of healing, since he healed Buu. So, if nothing else, he could just teleport Dende to Gohan, or have Dende restore his own energy.

And no, it shows that your standards are different than Toriyama's/the Dragon Ball universe's. Again, you don't like it, but that's what the story says, so you're out of luck.

[fadeddreams5]

Who else does think, the one from the left is (God)Vegeta?

Spoiler:

The transition in the trailer implies that that's a battle between Base Goku and Frieza in his "final" form. Frieza doesn't get his fire aura until after his "further evolution," but before that, he fights Goku in his normal state.

And as for the people saying that Vegeta is evil, from a logical standpoint as an outside reader, yes, he is a scumbag, despite how he's changed as a character. However, bad writing dictates that whoever the author believes is good... is good. Plain and simple. I doubt Toriyama really thought much about Vegeta's past or cared about delving into philosophical interpretations of good and evil when he wrote the script for BoG; Vegeta is now good to Toriyama because he now helps the other good guys fight the bad people, and he cares for his family too. Case closed.

[sintzu]

What would Vegeta have to do for you to say he's good ?

[VegettoEX]

This part of the conversation is starting to trail off a bit. By all means, please feel free to create a separate discussion debating the "goodness" of Vegeta at certain points in the story. Overall, let's try to keep this conversation as strictly movie-focused and concise as possible. Thank you!

[Low Tone G]

Who else does think, the one from the left is (God)Vegeta?

Spoiler:

The transition in the trailer implies that that's a battle between Base Goku and Freeza in his "final" form. Freeza doesn't get his fire aura until after his "further evolution," but before that, he fights Goku in his normal state.

That would be the best bet, but still, Goku and Vegeta are shown to be on equal regarding their importance in this movie. And Vegeta wasn't shown at all to engage Freeza for a match. I still think, one of the fights shown in the trailer is Vegeta's.

[JamesOwnz]

Who else does think, the one from the left is (God)Vegeta?

Spoiler:

The transition in the trailer implies that that's a battle between Base Goku and Freeza in his "final" form. Freeza doesn't get his fire aura until after his "further evolution," but before that, he fights Goku in his normal state.

That would be the best bet, but still, Goku and Vegeta are shown to be on equal regarding their importance in this movie. And Vegeta wasn't shown at all to engage Freeza for a match. I still think, one of the fights shown in the trailer is Vegeta's.

How are they shown to be on equal ground? Not so.. at least in the first trailer anyway

[dario03]

Might of been talked about already but hey 240+ pages is a lot to go through. But I wonder if we will get any stated power levels from scouters. Like base Vegeta 100,000,000 or something like that. Could help out with the whole base Goku can't beat Freeza at the start of BoG thing.

[Low Tone G]

The transition in the trailer implies that that's a battle between Base Goku and Freeza in his "final" form. Freeza doesn't get his fire aura until after his "further evolution," but before that, he fights Goku in his normal state.

That would be the best bet, but still, Goku and Vegeta are shown to be on equal regarding their importance in this movie. And Vegeta wasn't shown at all to engage Freeza for a match. I still think, one of the fights shown in the trailer is Vegeta's.

How are they shown to be on equal ground? Not so.. at least in the first trailer anyway

Of course not, but that is what the poster implies. The major characters are Goku, Vegeta and Freeza.

[Marco Polo]

The transition in the trailer implies

what the poster implies

Come on now... You're literally projecting your wishes.

[sintzu]

That is what the poster implies. The major characters are Goku, Vegeta and Freeza.

And the scan that was released a few days ago said Goku&Vegeta are the 2 who will fight Frieza.

[Marco Polo]

That is what the poster implies. The major characters are Goku, Vegeta and Freeza.

And the scan that was released a few days ago said Goku&Vegeta are the 2 who will fight Freeza.

But only 1-vs-1 battles involving Freeza are shown in the trailer, and no third character is in sight in this capture:

Spoiler:

It's likely that Goku and Vegeta take turns fighting Freeza, that either Goku (unlikely) or Vegeta gets whacked and that the remaining one fights Freeza's ultimate evolution all alone.

[Low Tone G]

That is what the poster implies. The major characters are Goku, Vegeta and Freeza.

And the scan that was released a few days ago said Goku&Vegeta are the 2 who will fight Freeza.

Really, is there a scan of this content?

[Kamiccolo9]

That is what the poster implies. The major characters are Goku, Vegeta and Freeza.

And the scan that was released a few days ago said Goku&Vegeta are the 2 who will fight Freeza.

Goku and Vegeta were also the ones who fought Buu. Saying that they will both fight doesn't imply that they are equal. That's just wishful thinking.