Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
DBZ_Lee wrote:I'm feeling somewhat conflicted about the potential of Vegeta playing the main role here. The thing is, he is one of my favorite characters, but I will always see him as the reluctant helper so to speak - which is what I like about him.
In Battle of Gods, his character received a lot of development/changes, and perhaps Toriyama did this on purpose, to prepare him for his ultimate redemption - Freezer. There would be nothing better than for him to finally defeat the tyrant who killed his father, and destroyed his home planet.
But, would I actually want this to happen?.
Vegeta's inability to defeat Freezer, was one of his best moments, and by the end of the manga, he acknowledges what was obvious anyway - that Goku was better than him.
I agree. Toriyama already started this fanwank of Vegeta with the revised Kanzenban ending and now it culminates with this. As cool as Vegeta is, I don't think he deserves getting another shot at Freeza and potentially beating him.
Goku's mercy he gave Freezer nearly got everyone on earth killed, and if it weren't for Trunks intervention, could have proven very costly a decision.
Could this be Toriyamas way of showing where pure evil is concerned, Goku will no longer show mercy? and this time - in front of an audience - mainly Beerus, who was shocked to discover Goku had been able to defeat Freezer, will now see it with his own two eyes?.
Could be. I didn't think of that angle, but I don't think that will happen.
I don't know if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but in this week's Shonen Jump, another author mentioned meeting Toriyama while visiting the Jump offices. It's not too surprising that he'd be there to work out some promo stuff for the movie, but it was kinda exciting to read all the same
medama_oyaji wrote:I don't know if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but in this week's Shonen Jump, another author mentioned meeting Toriyama while visiting the Jump offices. It's not too surprising that he'd be there to work out some promo stuff for the movie, but it was kinda exciting to read all the same
Nice! Maybe his character designs for the movie will be showing up somewhere soon. =u= I really want to see those.
I think the ones he did for BOG appeared this time that year.
Does anyone think Toriyama will keep things consistent, and prevent Goku to meet Bulma in this movie, if it takes place before EOZ? I think Toriyama will do because Bulma said that she didn't see Goku for 5 years as Goku didn't visit her just because he has been training whole time. That works fine with the possibility that Goku should train under Whis in this movie.
English is not my first language!
I'm still waiting for Dragon Ball in Super...
You can never know for sure with Toriyama.
With any luck, she won't appear in future leaks/teasers, or else we'll be discussing the possible contradiction ad nauseum.
FatNagger69 wrote:You can never know for sure with Toriyama.
With any luck, she won't appear in future leaks/teasers, or else we'll be discussing the possible contradiction ad nauseum.
She is already confirmed that she will appear, being that her voice actress is added to the list of voice cast.
Masako Nozawa (Son Goku, et al.), Ryūsei Nakao (Freeza), Kōichi Yamadera (Beerus), Masakazu Morita (Whis), Ryō Horikawa (Vegeta), Masaharu Satō (Kame-sen’nin), Hiromi Tsuru (Bulma), Mayumi Tanaka (Kuririn), Takeshi Kusao (Trunks), Hikaru Midorikawa (Tenshinhan), and Yūko Minaguchi (Videl) are all confirmed to return, and hopefully to all of their respective roles noted here
English is not my first language!
I'm still waiting for Dragon Ball in Super...
At this point it's obvious that Toriyama doesn't remember half the little details from the original manga. I have a feeling a lot of things like the Bulma thing or the SSJ Gohan thing will keep happening as long as they keep making these new films. So far, the contradictions have been minimal. But I feel like eventually it's going to get to a point where it's going to screw up the end of Z (and the manga) and completely obliterate DBGT. Even though GT is not part of the original manga, it does exist. And unless they decide to announce that it "doesn't count" then it will still be pretty confusing for the average fan to understand what's going on. I mean, being a Dragon Ball fan is already pretty confusing. Thankfully a website like Kanzenshuu exists to help set people on the right path! But I meet "dragon ball fans" all the time who have no idea about many of the more confusing aspects of the series.
FatNagger69 wrote:You can never know for sure with Toriyama.
With any luck, she won't appear in future leaks/teasers, or else we'll be discussing the possible contradiction ad nauseum.
She is already confirmed that she will appear, being that her voice actress is added to the list of voice cast.
Masako Nozawa (Son Goku, et al.), Ryūsei Nakao (Freeza), Kōichi Yamadera (Beerus), Masakazu Morita (Whis), Ryō Horikawa (Vegeta), Masaharu Satō (Kame-sen’nin), Hiromi Tsuru (Bulma), Mayumi Tanaka (Kuririn), Takeshi Kusao (Trunks), Hikaru Midorikawa (Tenshinhan), and Yūko Minaguchi (Videl) are all confirmed to return, and hopefully to all of their respective roles noted here
Damn it where is there fact checker....hire a consultant dammit.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
bleed0range wrote:At this point it's obvious that Toriyama doesn't remember half the little details from the original manga. I have a feeling a lot of things like the Bulma thing or the SSJ Gohan thing will keep happening as long as they keep making these new films.
We know that Toriyama has read through the manga in preparation for Battle of Gods.
I'd like to believe that he'd at least keep the ending in mind as he works inside of the timeskip.
Though again, he's a wildcard. I'll reserve any judgement until contradictions are confirmed.
dbzfan7 wrote:Damn it where is there fact checker....hire a consultant dammit.
Her appearance in the movie alone doesn't necessarily mean a contradiction.
bleed0range wrote:At this point it's obvious that Toriyama doesn't remember half the little details from the original manga. I have a feeling a lot of things like the Bulma thing or the SSJ Gohan thing will keep happening as long as they keep making these new films.
We know that Toriyama has read through the manga in preparation for Battle of Gods.
I'd like to believe that he'd at least keep the ending in mind as he works inside of the timeskip.
Though again, he's a wildcard. I'll reserve any judgement until contradictions are confirmed.
dbzfan7 wrote:Damn it where is there fact checker....hire a consultant dammit.
Her appearance in the movie alone doesn't necessarily mean a contradiction.
Yeah. Even if Bulma makes an appearance she doesn't need to meet Goku. Especially if her husband and Goku train with Whis somewhere else, not on the Earth. Still, I wonder if Vegeta truely becomes a God or not. Because it needs a ritual... Or it doesn't, can Whis or Beerus grant him Godhood without it?
English is not my first language!
I'm still waiting for Dragon Ball in Super...
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Yeah, probably it needs a ritual, but that's the only way to acheive the form? Couldn't be other ways to do it? I wonder how did Beerus become one? Because it's heavily implied that Beerus wasn't born a God, but took the Hakaishin job in the distant past. Who else could grant him the God power other than Whis?
Or maybe who enters in Beerus' home becomes a God? That would explan why is Vegeta also present together with Goku and the Destroyer God's Residence. Vegeta shouldn't be able to bear a traning with Whis if he didn't have a potent power, should he?
English is not my first language!
I'm still waiting for Dragon Ball in Super...
Low Tone G wrote:Does anyone think Toriyama will keep things consistent, and prevent Goku to meet Bulma in this movie, if it takes place before EOZ? I think Toriyama will do because Bulma said that she didn't see Goku for 5 years as Goku didn't visit her just because he has been training whole time. That works fine with the possibility that Goku should train under Whis in this movie.
The end of the manga is in AGE 784, and according to Bluma's line, she shouldn't have seen Goku after AGE 779 if it had been five years.
Battle of Gods took place in AGE 778, and Revival of F is like two years later in AGE 780. We don't currently know exactly when ROF takes place within said year though. It could be before May, when the Tenkaichi Budokai events are held, technically making it more than four years and having Bluma round up. She may have even been estimating in the first place too. It wouldn't be the first time time gaps weren't exactly as long as stated in the series, so I'd be willing to let it slide in this film if Goku and Bluma end up seeing each other. If there is another film after ROF where they interact though, that would be pushing it.
Direct translations of the Korean DB Online timeline and guidebook.
My personal "canon" and BP list. (Coming Soon)
Low Tone G wrote:Does anyone think Toriyama will keep things consistent, and prevent Goku to meet Bulma in this movie, if it takes place before EOZ? I think Toriyama will do because Bulma said that she didn't see Goku for 5 years as Goku didn't visit her just because he has been training whole time. That works fine with the possibility that Goku should train under Whis in this movie.
The end of the manga is in AGE 784, and according to Bluma's line, she shouldn't have seen Goku after AGE 779 if it had been five years.
Battle of Gods took place in AGE 778, and Revival of F is like two years later in AGE 780. We don't currently know exactly when ROF takes place within said year though. It could be before May, when the Tenkaichi Budokai events are held, technically making it more than four years and having Bluma round up. She may have even been estimating in the first place too. It wouldn't be the first time time gaps weren't exactly as long as stated in the series, so I'd be willing to let it slide in this film if Goku and Bluma end up seeing each other. If there is another film after ROF where they interact though, that would be pushing it.
How do you know it's two years after BOG? Beerus asked Whis to wake him up after 3 years. It's been mentioned somewhere Whis will wake him up earlier or something?
English is not my first language!
I'm still waiting for Dragon Ball in Super...
