Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:27 pm

Last edited by SSJ2FutureGohan on Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:57 pm

Why ignore official BP's?

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:10 pm

The zeroes. They burn.

Oddly enough, that's the first time I've seen someone go over the 120 million for Freeza. Weird.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:52 am

Zombie wrote:Why ignore official BP's?
'Official' to me means stated in the manga. and tbh, Goku and Freeza being only at 3 mil feels too low for me, the gap between Goku and Vegeta (post Zenkai) should be big (not huge), and Freeza's final form should dwarf his 2nd and 3rd form, I couldn't imagine his initial Final form only being 2x his second form

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Galan007 » Thu Dec 11, 2014 2:28 pm

Your personal opinion/list doesn't supersede canon fact, and certainly shouldn't be labeled as "accurate" when it massively contradicts the canon BPs listed in the Daizenshuu.

Canonically:
Base Goku(post zenkai)=3m.
4th Form Freeza(3%)=3.6m
Base Goku(KKx20)=60m
4th Form Freeza(50%)=60m
SSJ Goku=150m
4th Form Freeza(100%)=120m
If your BPs deviate from that, they're no good.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Thu Dec 11, 2014 2:47 pm

Galan007 wrote:Your personal opinion/list doesn't supersede canon fact, and certainly shouldn't be labeled as "accurate" when it massively contradicts the canon BPs listed in the Daizenshuu.
Let's not throw that word around in here. Canonicity means very little in Dragon Ball anyway; it's practically meaningless in this kind of discussion.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by dbgtFO » Thu Dec 11, 2014 2:55 pm

SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:I will bless you all w/ this accurate PL list

Saiyan arc

Arrival of Raditz
Farmer w/ shotgun - 0.0005
Already inaccurate with the first one :P
Piccolo - 322
---unweighted - 408
---Makankosappo (1st try) ~
---Makankosappo (2nd try) ~


Kuririn -
--Scatter blast -
Why aren't these listed?
Artificial Humans arc

Mysterious Youth of the Future

Future Trunks Super Saiyan - 275,000,000

3 years later

Piccolo - 600,000,000

Android 19 (initial) - 375,000,000

Vegeta Super Saiyan - 740,000,000

Android 20 - 375,000,000

Trunks Super Saiyan - 660,000,000
I really doubt Trunks got much stronger after coming back, if at all. It isn't stated at all he powered up and Tenshinhan thinks Trunks and Vegeta shouldn't be far apart, while Piccolo and Kami seem in agreeance about Piccolo not being close to Trunks.
Dr. Gero and #19 also can't be that much stronger than Trunks(1st appearance), if at all. Vegeta notes #19 isn't as strong as made out to be. If #19(initial) is at 375m compared to Trunks'(1st appearance) 275m, why wouldn't Vegeta think #19 could own Trunks?
Free the Future
Future Trunks - 1,540,000,000
---Super Saiyan - 77,000,000,000

Future Android 17 - 760,000,000

Future Android 18 - 727,000,000

Future Cell - 800,000,000
---Initial suppression - 550,000,000
Why does Trunks even bother go Super Saiyan, if he's that much stronger than them in base?

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:33 pm

Galan007 wrote:Your personal opinion/list doesn't supersede canon fact, and certainly shouldn't be labeled as "accurate" when it massively contradicts the canon BPs listed in the Daizenshuu.

Canonically:
Base Goku(post zenkai)=3m.
4th Form Freeza(3%)=3.6m
Base Goku(KKx20)=60m
4th Form Freeza(50%)=60m
SSJ Goku=150m
4th Form Freeza(100%)=120m
If your BPs deviate from that, they're no good.
I'm sorry, but I don't think the fact that my power levels don't come from a guide not even made by the author just automatically invalidates them. I base the PLs off of what I read in the manga. I don't think a guide that contradicts itself should hold more weight over the manga. My list is accurate to the original story.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Kaboom » Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:36 pm

There's no problem with crafting power level numbers different from those in the guidebooks, as long as one doesn't try to impose them upon anything or anyone else. It's when one starts to say, "my numbers are better than the ones made by those idiots at Shueisha, which nobody should use, and if they do I'll treat them like an uneducated filthy peasant for it," that bad things start to happen.

Ignoring numbers actually given in the manga itself, though, outside of a more "hypothetical" list... that's a little sketchy.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:38 pm

dbgtFO wrote:
SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:I will bless you all w/ this accurate PL list

Saiyan arc

Arrival of Raditz
Farmer w/ shotgun - 0.0005
Already inaccurate with the first one :P

Lol if you actually read Dragon Ball you would realize humans being 5 makes no sense, and the power gaps in Dragon Ball are too large for Goku to start ar 10 and only be 461, unless you think Goku only got ~40x stronger in all of Dragon Ball :lol:
Piccolo - 322
---unweighted - 408
---Makankosappo (1st try) ~
---Makankosappo (2nd try) ~


Kuririn -
--Scatter blast -
Why aren't these listed?

I forgot? Sorry? Piccolo's attack PL should be in the manga so why are you complaining?
Artificial Humans arc

Mysterious Youth of the Future

Future Trunks Super Saiyan - 275,000,000

3 years later

Piccolo - 600,000,000

Android 19 (initial) - 375,000,000

Vegeta Super Saiyan - 740,000,000

Android 20 - 375,000,000

Trunks Super Saiyan - 660,000,000
I really doubt Trunks got much stronger after coming back, if at all. It isn't stated at all he powered up and Tenshinhan thinks Trunks and Vegeta shouldn't be far apart, while Piccolo and Kami seem in agreeance about Piccolo not being close to Trunks.
Dr. Gero and #19 also can't be that much stronger than Trunks(1st appearance), if at all. Vegeta notes #19 isn't as strong as made out to be. If #19(initial) is at 375m compared to Trunks'(1st appearance) 275m, why wouldn't Vegeta think #19 could own Trunks?
Trunks had to have gotten stronger, as you said Trunks and Vegeta shouldn't be far apart, and Vegeta trained for 3 years after Trunks' first appearance, so if Vegeta powered up Trunks had to also.
Free the Future
Future Trunks - 1,540,000,000
---Super Saiyan - 77,000,000,000

Future Android 17 - 760,000,000

Future Android 18 - 727,000,000

Future Cell - 800,000,000
---Initial suppression - 550,000,000
Why does Trunks even bother go Super Saiyan, if he's that much stronger than them in base?
I'm not Trunks, I can't give you an in-universe explanation, maybe he just wanted to one-shot them and get it over with? If you're trying to say he's supposed to be weaker in base you're wrong.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:38 pm

My list is accurate to the original story.
Farmer w/ shotgun - 0.0005
Plus:
Cell
---post-Human absorbtion - 4,500,000,000

Android 17 - 1,150,000,000
Kamiccolo - 1,200,000,000
Also:
Gohan - 3,600,000,000
---Mastered Super Saiyan - 180,000,000,000
Perfect Cell - 436,000,000,000
And:
Base Future Trunks - 1,540,000,000
Future Android 17 - 760,000,000
Future Android 18 - 727,000,000
Last edited by RandomGuy96 on Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Kaboom » Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:41 pm

SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:Lol if you actually read Dragon Ball you would realize humans being 5 makes no sense, and the power gaps in Dragon Ball are too large for Goku to start ar 10 and only be 461, unless you think Goku only got ~40x stronger in all of Dragon Ball :lol:

...

I'm not Trunks, I can't give you an in-universe explanation, maybe he just wanted to one-shot them and get it over with? If you're trying to say he's supposed to be weaker in base you're wrong.
Let's also try not to pepper the conversation with derisive "lols" and "if you think <thing> then you're wrong" comments, too. This community is better than that.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by dbzfan7 » Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:54 pm

SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:I will bless you all w/ this accurate PL list
And this is where you come off as arrogant and just ask for people harshly criticize. First off there is no ACCURATE power level list. Outside the numbers they actually state in the manga like Freeza saying his first form is 530,000, there are no accurate levels for everything. No one here can make an accurate list as Dragon Ball is convoluted as hell when it comes to gaps, multipliers, fusions, etc. The best we can do is put numbers up and rationalize them for fun. We all know none of our numbers really count as being totally accurate aside from the stated ones. Looking closely you can find inconsistent gaps within the series that pretty much make having consistent gaps impossible. Especially Pre-Raditz leveling is difficult because of it's implications.

Also you are not blessing us with anything. You're sharing just another list in an entertaining conversation, not some undiscovered power levels by officials. A blessing is something of actual worth or kindness like donating to the Kanzenshuu website we all come to. This whether a joke or not is an arrogant presumption.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:59 pm

dbzfan7 wrote:
SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:I will bless you all w/ this accurate PL list
And this is where you come off as arrogant and just ask for people harshly criticize. First off there is no ACCURATE power level list. Outside the numbers they actually state in the manga like Freeza saying his first form is 530,000, there are no accurate levels for everything. No one here can make an accurate list as Dragon Ball is convoluted as hell when it comes to gaps, multipliers, fusions, etc. The best we can do is put numbers up and rationalize them for fun. We all know none of our numbers really count as being totally accurate aside from the stated ones. Looking closely you can find inconsistent gaps within the series that pretty much make having consistent gaps impossible. Especially Pre-Raditz leveling is difficult because of it's implications.

Also you are not blessing us with anything. You're sharing just another list in an entertaining conversation, not some undiscovered power levels by officials. A blessing is something of actual worth or kindness like donating to the Kanzenshuu website we all come to. This whether a joke or not is an arrogant presumption.
It was a joke, I'm not gonna post a list saying 'here are my horrible power levels, every comment on how wrong they are'
I'm not claiming that they hold any weight over the manga, I just made the list based off of observed gaps in the show, and wanted critique... Sorry?

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:01 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:
My list is accurate to the original story.
Farmer w/ shotgun - 0.0005
While it's true that farmers PL was stated @ 5, that pretty much contradicts the story (in a way). I like to use the decimal system to rationalize the early DB gaps.

Plus:
Cell
---post-Human absorbtion - 4,500,000,000

Android 17 - 1,150,000,000
Kamiccolo - 1,200,000,000
Cell tanked Piccolo's amplified Light Grenade, don't see a problem here.

Also:
Gohan - 3,600,000,000
---Mastered Super Saiyan - 180,000,000,000
Perfect Cell - 436,000,000,000
Don't see a problem here either.

And:
Base Future Trunks - 1,540,000,000
Future Android 17 - 760,000,000
Future Android 18 - 727,000,000
Again, no problem :D

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Kaboom » Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:04 pm

That was a bit overly harsh, dbzfan7.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:07 pm

While it's true that farmers PL was stated @ 5, that pretty much contradicts the story (in a way). I like to use the decimal system to rationalize the early DB gaps.
It contradicts the made-up system... that Toriyama invented on the spot... because apparently Toriyama knows less about something he made up than you do? I think that once you've outright stated that the author was wrong about the very first power level ever displayed in the manga, you've relinquished the right to brag about how your list is the most "accurate".

You do know that, even if we go by your numbers, battle powers are completely divorced from any logical or linear scaling in a realistic context, right?
Cell tanked Piccolo's amplified Light Grenade, don't see a problem here.
He couldn't even one-shot or blitz 17/Piccolo. As has been pointed out, the whole idea that the Light Grenade MUST be super powerful comes from cherry picking one or two blasts from the beginning of the series and applying your own rules to them. This contradicts both Cell's other feats in the battle, and every other time we see an amplified ki attack used.

Heck, Cell could be weaker than Piccolo, and still tank the Light Grenade. Piccolo himself knows that better than anyone.
Don't see a problem here either.
Perfect Cell's full speed was moderately above SS Gohan's full speed. Unless Cell is ridiculously slow for his power level, which nothing hints at, there's no reason he should be that much stronger than SS Gohan.
Again, no problem
Except, you know, Trunks needed Super Saiyan, even though by this number he could literally wave a hand in the general direction of the androids to kill them. Or just put holes in their chest before they even realize that a fight has started.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by dbzfan7 » Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:09 pm

SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:
SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:I will bless you all w/ this accurate PL list
And this is where you come off as arrogant and just ask for people harshly criticize. First off there is no ACCURATE power level list. Outside the numbers they actually state in the manga like Freeza saying his first form is 530,000, there are no accurate levels for everything. No one here can make an accurate list as Dragon Ball is convoluted as hell when it comes to gaps, multipliers, fusions, etc. The best we can do is put numbers up and rationalize them for fun. We all know none of our numbers really count as being totally accurate aside from the stated ones. Looking closely you can find inconsistent gaps within the series that pretty much make having consistent gaps impossible. Especially Pre-Raditz leveling is difficult because of it's implications.

Also you are not blessing us with anything. You're sharing just another list in an entertaining conversation, not some undiscovered power levels by officials. A blessing is something of actual worth or kindness like donating to the Kanzenshuu website we all come to. This whether a joke or not is an arrogant presumption.
It was a joke, I'm not gonna post a list saying 'here are my horrible power levels, every comment on how wrong they are'
I'm not claiming that they hold any weight over the manga, I just made the list based off of observed gaps in the show, and wanted critique... Sorry?
I'm not seeing how this even constitutes as a joke, unless your supposed to be parodying people who are full of themselves. We've had joke lists by some people or joke titles in our lists like Kaboom and I have done which would constitute as jokes.
Kaboom wrote:That was a bit overly harsh, dbzfan7.
Probably from this kind of attitude whether intentional or not I've had to deal with a lot personally.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:13 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:
Cell tanked Piccolo's amplified Light Grenade, don't see a problem here.
He couldn't even one-shot or blitz 17/Piccolo.
Don't see a problem here either.
Don't see why he would one-shot 17 if he's trying to absorb him, and it doesn't negate the fact that Cell tanked and amplified ki blast, which has to put him multifolds above Piccolo, there was even a line where Piccolo made fun of Cell's KHH for having poor amp not to long before that.

Perfect Cell's full speed was moderately above SS Gohan's full speed. Unless Cell is ridiculously slow for his power level, which nothing hints at, there's no reason he should be that much stronger than SS Gohan.
The massive power up he did suggested at least a 2x boost, based on reactions from z senshi, but that's my opinion, so I won't claim it's fact
Again, no problem
Except, you know, Trunks needed Super Saiyan, even though by this number he could literally wave a hand in the general direction of the androids to kill them. Or just put holes in their chest before they even realize that a fight has started.
Prove Trunks needed Super Saiyan, perhaps he was being conscious? I don't see why Future Trunks in base should be below the Future (stated to be weaker) Androids when Kid Trunks was on par with 18 in a restricting suit.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:18 pm

dbzfan7 wrote: I'm not seeing how this even constitutes as a joke, unless your supposed to be parodying people who are full of themselves. We've had joke lists by some people or joke titles in our lists like Kaboom and I have done which would constitute as jokes.
The list itself is not a joke, and you're correct, I am 'parodying' (I was just gonna say mimicking) a person full of them self. I can see I'm not welcome to share my PLs at all, I'll just never post here again if that's what you want :D

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