Has TFS damaged the reputation of the franchise in the U.S.?

[KaiserNeko]

Nope. Only thing damaged was Yamcha. He's even more ridiculed now than ever before. Hope no one is a Yamcha fan.

Here's my issue with statements like this, this is all based on personal anecdotes and intuition, not hard statistics. I could just as easily say that I don't think there's any discernible difference in people's perceptions of Yamcha, especially not amongst DB fans at large. He's more or less seen as he always was.

Much like most of us here, which is why it's so interesting (read: questionable) to see such heated debate on the subject of our legality and how that relates to our positive or negative impact on the fandom..

I honestly wish I could speak openly about how much I know. But honestly? I've likely already said too much. Regardless, I know more about the specifics in dealing with us (not necessarily law, just how we relate to this whole mess) and I've already said my piece.

Is there a gag order? What stops you from saying "we've had X effect..." if it's an empirical objective fact?

To be frank: Only an idiot would talk publicly about all the sensitive details involved in this. Part of being professional is discretion.

That's the last of that. Again: Said my piece. Draw from this what you will.

[ImmaDeker]

Which is a fair point but I'm super into Dragonball Z and have a passing familiarity with copyright law as an abstract concept, so you're wrong.

[ABED]

To be frank: Only an idiot would talk publicly about all the sensitive details involved in this. Part of being professional is discretion.

This doesn't sound like someone being frank, it sounds like someone bragging and attempting to show tact. It comes off like saying, "I make quite a lot of money, but I can't tell you how much because it's tacky to talk about money."

[dbzfan7]

Nope. Only thing damaged was Yamcha. He's even more ridiculed now than ever before. Hope no one is a Yamcha fan.

Here's my issue with statements like this, this is all based on personal anecdotes and intuition, not hard statistics. I could just as easily say that I don't think there's any discernible difference in people's perceptions of Yamcha, especially not amongst DB fans at large. He's more or less seen as he always was.

I can't speak everywhere, but before TFS I didn't really see that much Yamcha ridicule online. Yes he was always treated as weak and worthless in Z, but so was pretty much every other human. Now a days he's ridiculed far worse and is the measuring stick of sucking. Can't count how many times on other sites or character comparisons that say "At least he's not Yamcha."

[KaiserNeko]

To be frank: Only an idiot would talk publicly about all the sensitive details involved in this. Part of being professional is discretion.

This doesn't sound like someone being frank, it sounds like someone bragging and attempting to show tact.

It's not bragging.

I'm trying to be as upfront and honest with you about this subject as I can possibly be, as someone who's directly involved in all of this.

Honestly, what is there to brag about? "I KNOW THINGS YOU DON'T, NYAH NYAH NYAH!" I don't really benefit from some silly superiority complex over being privy to information that I'd actually be happier to OPENLY TALK ABOUT.

[Eire]

TFS managed to damage reputation of DBZ the same way Pythons managed to damage Arthurian Legends and Bible.
I've seen Star Wars fans seriously arguing that watching Starballs was akin to blasphemy and I see that some people here really come close to this level.

[ImmaDeker]

To be frank: Only an idiot would talk publicly about all the sensitive details involved in this. Part of being professional is discretion.

This doesn't sound like someone being frank, it sounds like someone bragging and attempting to show tact. It comes off like saying, "I make quite a lot of money, but I can't tell you how much because it's tacky to talk about money."

Are you fucking retarded?

[KaiserNeko]

TFS managed to damage reputation of DBZ the same way Pythons managed to damage Arthurian Legends and Bible.
I've seen Star Wars fans seriously arguing that watching Spaceballs was akin to blasphemy and I see that some people here really come close to this level.

You've just compared us to Spaceballs.

Gather 'round, folks, and witness as ImmaDekker's head LITERALLY EXPLODES.

[ABED]

TFS managed to damage reputation of DBZ the same way Pythons managed to damage Arthurian Legends and Bible.
I've seen Star Wars fans seriously arguing that watching Starballs was akin to blasphemy and I see that some people here really come close to this level.

Do you mean Spaceballs?

[ImmaDeker]

Gather 'round, folks, and witness as ImmaDekker's head LITERALLY EXPLODES.

And not nearly enough time to sell tickets.

This didn't work out well for me at all!

[Gyt Kaliba]

ABED, there are certain things that one just isn't allowed to talk about, when one is involved in any kind of business. Hell, I'm only a lowly gas station attendant, but there are certain day-to-day matters of business that I'm privy to that are expected to stay within the company. That's just how business works. So a statement of 'that's all I can tell you' normally isn't bragging, it's just exactly that: that's all someone can tell you without possibly giving too much away.

[ABED]

TFS should never be compared to Spaceballs or Monty Python. The difference of quality between the latter two and the former is the grand friggin canyon. We're talking Mel Brooks and John Cleese and Eric Idle, etc. vs. a bunch of amateurs. No offense, just callin' it like I see it.

[KaiserNeko]

TFS should never be compared to Spaceballs or Monty Python. The difference of quality between the latter two and the former is the grand friggin canyon. We're talking Mel Brooks and John Cleese and Eric Idle, etc. vs. a bunch of amateurs. No offense, just callin' it like I see it.

Nobody here.

Nobody.

Is actually comparing our content to that of Monty Python or Mel Brooks.

Nobody.

[ABED]

ABED, there are certain things that one just isn't allowed to talk about, when one is involved in any kind of business. Hell, I'm only a lowly gas station attendant, but there are certain day-to-day matters of business that I'm privy to that are expected to stay within the company. That's just how business works. So a statement of 'that's all I can tell you' normally isn't bragging, it's just exactly that: that's all someone can tell you without possibly giving too much away.

I'm aware, but like I wrote, you don't tiptoe around that issue either. You just don't bring it up. I'm 29 and a college graduate, I'm not ignorant. I'm not asking him to spill the beans, just not to humblebrag. I'm not necessarily saying that's the case, just that it's coming dangerously close to that. He's written it several times, "I can't tell you" but he also keeps implying that they have made some big impact. Go back to my money analogy, if he keeps saying it, that's how it will come off.

KaiserNeko, if you want to be seen as professional, maybe you shouldn't be so touchy.

"You've just compared us to Spaceballs." So which is it?

[KaiserNeko]

ABED, there are certain things that one just isn't allowed to talk about, when one is involved in any kind of business. Hell, I'm only a lowly gas station attendant, but there are certain day-to-day matters of business that I'm privy to that are expected to stay within the company. That's just how business works. So a statement of 'that's all I can tell you' normally isn't bragging, it's just exactly that: that's all someone can tell you without possibly giving too much away.

I'm aware, but like I wrote, you don't tiptoe around that issue either. You just don't bring it up. I'm 29 and a college graduate, I'm not ignorant. I'm not asking him to spill the beans, just not to humblebrag. I'm not necessarily saying that's the case, just that it's coming dangerously close to that. He's written it several times, "I can't tell you" but he also keeps implying that they have made some big impact. Go back to my money analogy, if he keeps saying it, that's how it will come off.

KaiserNeko, if you want to be seen as professional, maybe you shouldn't be so touchy.

"You've just compared us to Spaceballs." So which is it?

That's called "Being facetious as to make a joke about ImmaDekker".

You apparently take everything literally.

Also: I involved myself in the conversation because I wanted to try and give my input, as limited as it ultimately has to be. Honestly, what is there to brag about? "I KNOW THINGS YOU DON'T, NYAH NYAH NYAH!" I don't really benefit from some silly superiority complex over being privy to information that I'd actually be happier to OPENLY TALK ABOUT.

[ABED]

That's called "Being facetious as to make a joke about ImmaDekker".

You apparently take everything literally.

It's the internet, I know you want to put the onus on me for not getting what you believed was an obvious joke, but it's not immediately obvious to me through context that it was a joke. There was no inflection for me to hear it as you wanted it to come across, and it's hard to convey tone on the internet. I have a sense of humor.

I involved myself in the conversation because I wanted to try and give my input, as limited as it ultimately has to be. Honestly, what is there to brag about? "I KNOW THINGS YOU DON'T, NYAH NYAH NYAH!" I don't really benefit from some silly superiority complex over being privy to information that I'd actually be happier to OPENLY TALK ABOUT.

As if putting something in big bold letters helps make your point any better. Look, I don't know you, aside from a few posts you've made on the forum, but I'm very observant, and you might be surprised, but many people have a silly superiority complex because they are privy to things that others aren't. I don't know if you are one of them, but they do exist.

[FlpShimizu]

" A bunch of amateurs". "No offense". Really? That's just being silly, you did mean to insult them like you want to in every single post here. It's absolutely fine to dislike TFS, to think other works are better or even see it as something dangerous to the franchise. What you don't seem to understand is the fact that all those are just parts of your point of view. Being passive agressive about people trying to show why they think otherwise doesn't make your arguments stonger, it only makes them sound like a kid crying for attention.

I don't live in the U.S, so I can't talk about how you guys over there react to Abridged. Here, in Brazil, just a few people watch it and we're all long time fans of Dragon Ball, so we obviously don't confuse what is the real deal and what is just made for fun. Fun, laughs, that's all Abridged means to produce to the fans. If they make money with it, I don't care. Is it against the law? I don't know and it's not my duty to judge them. They've been around for quite some time now, if it was really harming the series I'm pretty sure FUNimation or TOEI would simply take their videos down.

[KaiserNeko]

That's called "Being facetious as to make a joke about ImmaDekker".

You apparently take everything literally.

It's the internet, I know you want to put the onus on me for not getting what you believed was an obvious joke, but it's not immediately obvious to me through context that it was a joke. There was no inflection for me to hear it as you wanted it to come across, and it's hard to convey tone on the internet. I have a sense of humor.

Yet you had no inclination to infer that perhaps I was just making a joke about Imma, and instead fell back instantly and firmly on your perception that I was being completely serious about my comment.

This IS the internet. So perhaps instead of defaulting to a single context, perhaps you should be more inclined in the future to consider otherwise without calling out for being dishonest or "bragging", etc.

As if putting something in big bold letters helps make your point any better. Look, I don't know you, aside from a few posts you've made on the forum, but I'm very observant, and you might be surprised, but many people have a silly superiority complex because they are privy to things that others aren't. I don't know if you are one of them, but they do exist.

So stop making negative assumptions about me if you, in fact, are unfamiliar with me. You painted me in a negative light and tried to pick apart and criticize my motives, despite your open admittance to not knowing barely anything about me. I'm trying to be involved in this conversation, this community, and maybe even offer defense for myself and my work.

... I just realized I've spent over an hour discussing this topic and defending myself in this thread. You remember what I said about trying to be a part of this community? It's really difficult not to come off as "touchy" or "sensitive" whilst also not coming off as "haughty" or "impersonal".

[dbgtFO]

It's interesting to read KaiserNeko implying being contacted by the official license holders.
I would never think Funimation/Toei animation or Shueisha(or even Toriyama, lol) would be in touch with the likes of Kanzenshuu and TeamFourStar more than they would any other fans, but apparently they are to some extent.
I do recall TFS having their vids taken down once, leading to the website getting opened, but it would appear Toei/Funimation has allowed it to continue on youtube, because it has encouraged people to support the official release perhaps?

It's interesting, but also very annoying, that I don't know, what's going behind the scenes, because I want to know god dammit

[ABED]

Once again, the onus is on me to infer your tone. That makes perfect sense. No, I had no idea, I just took it as a statement of fact. Fine, I'll comp to the fact that I was being jokey as well. Obviously you can compare any two works regardless is one is much better than the other.

And Shimizu, it's not an insult nor meant as one, call a spade a spade, we're talking about a fan production vs. major motion pictures created by comedy icons worked on by hundreds of people. It's an apt description.

So stop making negative assumptions about me if you, in fact, are unfamiliar with me.

I was trying to be nice, we've had interactions in the past and typically devolve into this because you are so touchy. There's a big difference between defending and being defensive. Perhaps it's best that we don't discuss this any further because we obviously don't get along.