FUNi/Toei Comparisons

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:02 pm

Great Saiyaman wrote:Did you ever think there might be a reason FUNi is the only company to do this? It's because they're smart. They know it's too bland looking, it's the same reason they changed the music....it's dated.

-Corey

Great Saiyaman · Post by **Great Saiyaman** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:07 pm

Don't laugh, you know I'm right. Most new age Anime has a more colorful look, take One Piece for example. Look, I relize FUNi has done some crappy things in the past, but that was back in 1996, before Anime really hit America, they did what they had to do to make Z work in America. If they hadn't, we might not even have this Anime Revolution here in America like we do now. Stop thinking of FUNi as the "Humans regrowing arms" company. They've done a lot of great stuff, including DBZ Season 3+ & hell they redid those first 2 seasons & things are great.

Mr. Announcer · Post by **Mr. Announcer** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:15 pm

Do you really think things would have gone that wrong if they had kept the original music and kept the regular colors? I don't know about you, but when I was a kid I watched almost anything on TV and DBZ happens to be a show about aliens shooting giant fireballs out of their hands. You honestly think it would have made that much of a difference?

Great Saiyaman · Post by **Great Saiyaman** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:16 pm

Perhaps not the colors, but the music yes. Music is a big part of Anime, most of the JP BGM is goofy & just not exciting. Take the scene at the end of King Piccolo when Yajirobe saves Goku from falling....that music should be intense, instead it's silly. That dramatic scene makes me laugh because of the BGM. I do however find most of the Vocal music to be extremely good.

Also, over on MFG, they have some Movie DragonBox Screencaps....so I made some comparison shots of my own.....the images weren't EXACTLY the same size, so bear with me.

Take a look at how bland the aura & hair look they look dull. Japaneese Trunks should do a Shampoo commercial showing how his hair looks before he used New Suave Saiyan Shampoo...then switch to Dub Trunks, beautiful, bright & sweet. The skin tone isn't so bad, but still too pink for my taste.

Sebastian (SB) · Post by **Sebastian (SB)** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:54 pm

Great Saiyaman wrote:Perhaps not the colors, but the music yes. Music is a big part of Anime, most of the JP BGM is goofy & just not exciting. Take the scene at the end of King Piccolo when Yajirobe saves Goku from falling....that music should be intense, instead it's silly. That dramatic scene makes me laugh because of the BGM. I do however find most of the Vocal music to be extremely good.

I do admit, some JPN tracks do sound a bit awkward, but not in a bad way. We are talking about a show that was released in the mid 80's intented towards young children. Aside for all that, I have to agree with MajinVegetaXV's reaction......

Personally, it was the change of music alongside dialogue changes that really ruined the experience for me. It was like watching a different type of DBZ.

DBW · Post by **DBW** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:01 pm

Great Saiyaman wrote:True colors? They're the same colors except brighter. The JP looks bleak too many of the times, FUNi spices it up.

Don't laugh, you know I'm right. Most new age Anime has a more colorful look, take One Piece for example.

Cel animated, or digitally animated?

Cel:

Digital:

You're absolutely right, the digitally animated scene looks much brighter, but that doesn't mean that the cel animation should be "spiced up". The One Piece movies are all done in traditional cel animation and are beautiful as they are. You may prefer the brighter image, but most of us just want the show as it was meant to be seen. In other words, we don't want beautiful cel animation morphed to resemble digital animation.

Of course, you're entitled to like whatever you want, and that's great, but try to understand why some of us fight for the "true colors" and are opposed to FUNimation "spicing it up". It's not a life-or-death battle here, we just don't agree with what's been done.

To me, these are true colors - the paint on the back of the cel.

Great Saiyaman · Post by **Great Saiyaman** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:49 pm

Perhaps in the eye of a purist....but I guarentee if we polled un-bias minds, the Dub/Digital look would be prefered.

Blitzen · Post by **Blitzen** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:27 pm

oh dear

Don't laugh, you know I'm right. Most new age Anime has a more colorful look, take One Piece for example. Look, I relize FUNi has done some crappy things in the past, but that was back in 1996, before Anime really hit America, they did what they had to do to make Z work in America. If they hadn't, we might not even have this Anime Revolution here in America like we do now. Stop thinking of FUNi as the "Humans regrowing arms" company. They've done a lot of great stuff, including DBZ Season 3+ & hell they redid those first 2 seasons & things are great.

We're not stuck in 1997, but if FUNimation was only doing those things to get it working then, why are they still doing it to DBZ ten years later.

Yes, newer animation does retain a lot more colour, however that's because it's newer. That's obvious, but what I find utterly ridiculous among certian people here is how this is somehow a good thing? Different colours make it look more modern? Tell me, how many of you people don't know Dragonball/Z is basically from the early 90's/80's? This kind of "it looks newer" rhetoric is used for marketting and for kids who don't know any different. The Dragonboxes were made with those in mind who watched the show on Japanese TV as a kid, hence why the colours are original. I'm sorry if this comes out as rude, but trying to justify FUNimation's version as 'looking better' because it 'looks new', while knowing it's a god damn 1980's show isn't simply an opinion, it's activley acknowledged IGNORANCE, and for a DB forum that claims that it's basically the last bastion of intelligent DB conversation, this is both amazing and awful. When facts are staring you in the face, things such as-

-bleeding colours
-altered colours
-low bitrates
-zoomed in footage (we can get to the movies later if you want)
-whatever else

and yet you're still toting FUNimation's release as being better because it's 'newer', you're being pretty fucking ignorant because it IS and will ALWAYS BE an old show. This isn't like Lucas's Star Wars, where the changes were an actual creative desicion (being good or bad, ymmv), and where there was actual creative input/direction from the original director/writer/rights owned, this was basically a 'tricking up' like in Initial D or something, basically, SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T HAVE TO KEEP HAPPENING.

If FUNimation really HAS come that far, then why are they still doing it?

Subsequently, I can understand why you're so hesitant to let go of FUNimations release. You've invested a lot of time and money into it, so you're simply grabbing for strings. If you prefer something, it doesn't nessecerally mean it is better.

Tsukento · Post by **Tsukento** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:37 pm

BrollysKin wrote:The USA versions look better.

If by better, you mean ZOOMED IN and blindly bright, sure. But it still looks like total hell.

Olivier Hague wrote:
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a20/Ts ... pare-4.png
Er... Are the clouds moving really fast in that scene, or what?

Sorry about that. I couldn't exactly grab the exact frame, but it didn't really matter, seeing as how the fighting animations were simply looped over a moving background.

Great Saiyaman wrote:Did you ever think there might be a reason FUNi is the only company to do this? It's because they're smart. They know it's too bland looking, it's the same reason they changed the music....it's dated.

Funniest thing I've heard. The entire show, by the point it was dubbed, was dated to begin with. By your logic, it should have been reanimated cause it's dated footage. 8D FUNi changed the music to appeal to a different group of people, not because it was dated. :\

Great Saiyaman wrote:They've done a lot of great stuff, including DBZ Season 3+ & hell they redid those first 2 seasons & things are great.

I take it back. THAT is the funniest thing I've heard. Season 3 was the absolute worst point in the dub. Between Sean firing the Kamehame-Dump, Freeza shouting even more lines of homosexual innuendo, and Sonny shouting "Mondo Cool!" in just about every line, I can't begin to fathom what was worse at the time; the acting or the dialogue?

Great Saiyaman wrote:Perhaps not the colors, but the music yes. Music is a big part of Anime, most of the JP BGM is goofy & just not exciting.

Gee. I didn't realize Piccolo sacrificing himself for Gohan, the Ginyu Special Corps' entry, Goku turning Super Saiyan for the first time, Trunks killing Freeza, Vegeta turning Super Saiyan in front of Dr. Gero and #19, Gohan exploding into Super Saiyan 2, or Goku throwing the Genki Dama all had goofy music. I've been fooled all these years...

Great Saiyaman wrote:Take the scene at the end of King Piccolo when Yajirobe saves Goku from falling....that music should be intense, instead it's silly. That dramatic scene makes me laugh because of the BGM. I do however find most of the Vocal music to be extremely good.

Cause it's got Yajirobe in the scene and Goku's content with having won. Nothing to really be dramatic in except when finishing off Piccolo. Similar to when Luffy has his final fight with Crocodile in One Piece and the music changes to a lighter tune when focusing on Vivi directly after.

Great Saiyaman wrote:Take a look at how bland the aura & hair look they look dull. Japaneese Trunks should do a Shampoo commercial showing how his hair looks before he used New Suave Saiyan Shampoo...then switch to Dub Trunks, beautiful, bright & sweet. The skin tone isn't so bad, but still too pink for my taste.

http://www.daizex.com/guides/transforma ... full_power *ahem* And his skin isn't pink. o_O Compared to the FUNi screen, he's normal toned. His skin in the FUNi DVDs is crossing into a yellowish orange tone.

And furthermore..

http://ec3.images-amazon.com/images/P/B ... 95332_.jpg
http://images.myfavoritegames.com/galle ... nshu68.jpg
http://images.myfavoritegames.com/galle ... nshu43.jpg
http://images.myfavoritegames.com/galle ... nshu48.jpg
http://images.myfavoritegames.com/galle ... nshu33.jpg
http://images.myfavoritegames.com/galle ... rivals.jpg
http://images.myfavoritegames.com/galle ... um-072.jpg

All of those are from several sources. The first is directly from FUNIMATION as they used a screencap there. The Daizenshuu scans are from Toriyama himself. He's had a habit of mostly making the Super Saiyan hair a light, gold color that isn't intensely bright yellow as the FUNi DVDs make them out. The last one come from a card that uses direct animation. As you can see there, Goku's hair is just as dull as Dragon Box Trunks' hair. And that was BEFORE the remastering. Sorta tells you something about the FUNi hair. Doesn't help that the characters have been said to either have blond or gold hair. Not yellow.

Olivier Hague · Post by **Olivier Hague** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:43 pm

Tsukento wrote:Sorry about that. I couldn't exactly grab the exact frame, but it didn't really matter, seeing as how the fighting animations were simply looped over a moving background.

Oh, right. Looping animations.
I haven't seen any "Dragon Ball Z" episode/movie/whatever in a long time, obviously... ^^;

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:45 pm

Hm, and this is just my opinion, the greater color saturation makes the show look...kiddier? Is that even a word? I mean, even Love Hina doesn't have colors forced like that.

I honestly can't see why someone would want the oversaturated image. When reds or oranges are present, you get color bleed. Oh well, maybe I'm crazy. It's amusing that the only anime discs I've seen this kind of forced color saturation on in my library are FUNi's DB-related discs (for the record, I own Trigun, Cowboy Bebop, Serial Experiments Lain, Neon Genesis EVA, Gungrave, Samurai Champloo, Fruits Basket, Excel Saga, Azumanga Daioh and Akira), and yet every other series seems to get acclaim for its visual quality

When you say unbiased people, btw, what age group would they be? Would they be Japanese fans or English or Spanish or Italian or Russian or German? Would they have knowledge of the fact that FUNi pushes the colors themselves, not the original animation team? Lots of X-factors there.

Sure, ask an American fan (I can't help but notice you've gone from saying the 'FUNi' version is better to the 'dub' version is better, Freudian slip or am I reading too much into it? You do seem to like the dub better, with your critcizing of the original score and so forth...), and they may say they like the FUNi print better. Ask them what the show is about and they'll probably say it's about guys kicking the shit out of eachother and weird aliens and so on. They'll probably also say the original music is gay or some variant thereof. They'll also say Goku sounds like a girl and needs to be manly, and so on.

Ask an anime fan in general, or a person with an A/V background, and they'll probably pick the print with less damage and a clearer picture. Which side is not biased? Both? Neither?

It's an opinion, but it's kinda goofy IMHO. I wish everyone could see the DragonBoxes and FUNi discs in motion side-by-side on reference calibrated displays as I have. Sad thing is, I love what FUNi did with Fruits Basket...

-Corey

Tsukento · Post by **Tsukento** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:08 pm

MajinVejitaXV wrote:Sad thing is, I love what FUNi did with Fruits Basket...

Nothing sad about that. FUNi has done an excellent job on everything that doesn't begin with the words "Dragon" and "Ball."

Great Saiyaman · Post by **Great Saiyaman** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 11:26 pm

Blitzen wrote:If FUNimation really HAS come that far, then why are they still doing it?

Why are they still doing it? Because it looks nice, it doesn't look like a dead body before the makeup is put on.

I take it back. THAT is the funniest thing I've heard. Season 3 was the absolute worst point in the dub. Between Sean firing the Kamehame-Dump, Freeza shouting even more lines of homosexual innuendo, and Sonny shouting "Mondo Cool!" in just about every line, I can't begin to fathom what was worse at the time; the acting or the dialogue?

I found the voice acting to be pretty good.....I mean give them a break, they weren't used to their character yet. If you watch Season 1 of pretty much any sitcom compared to later seasons everything is weird. Also...Mondo Cool is the best Dub Krillin line ever...except for "It's times like this I wonder...why didn't I become a shoe salesman".

Anyway, as for the Music, Faulconer's music is much more exciting & well suited for DBZ in this day & age.

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 12:52 am

Great Saiyaman wrote:Why are they still doing it? Because it looks nice, it doesn't look like a dead body before the makeup is put on.

I assure you, cadavers don't look that good

Anyway, as for the Music, Faulconer's music is much more exciting & well suited for DBZ in this day & age.

And here's where I finally realize that you're joking. You had me for awhile there, but when you said Krillin's shoesalesman line was the best I realized you were pulling our chains. I should have picked up on it sooner. Nicely done

-Corey

Great Saiyaman · Post by **Great Saiyaman** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 1:09 am

Krillin's line was hilarious.

BrollysKin · Post by **BrollysKin** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 1:09 am

Well we will see what FUNI chooses to do soon enough. Personally I like the brighter fullscreen version.

Great Saiyaman · Post by **Great Saiyaman** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 1:10 am

BrollysKin wrote:Well we will see what FUNI chooses to do soon enough. Personally I like the brighter fullscreen version.

Indeed...if they have obtained the DragonBox footage, I wonder if they'll still saturate it. Hope so...but good thing I taped all of the Ultimate Uncut eps anyway.

Blitzen · Post by **Blitzen** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 1:34 am

Great Saiyaman wrote: Why are they still doing it? Because it looks nice, it doesn't look like a dead body before the makeup is put on.

Not quite. This is like cutting off toe and finger tips, putting the deceased in clown makeup and playing takety-sax at his funeral.

Anyway, as for the Music, Faulconer's music is much more exciting & well suited for DBZ in this day & age.

Then make a DBZ for this day and age, don't ressurect the old one and say "this'll do!". I mean sure, as you said, it was nessecary in 1997, when the Anime market was much smaller. But nowerdays it's simply not needed. DBZ isn't as big as it used to be and the Anime market has seen similar series released uncut, and without any such fuckery (Edited and uncut versions of Saint Seiya, YYH, even the uncut version of YYH, etc, are released with original music for cryin' out loud).

I'm not saying that the current incarnation of DBZ is without fans, but it's similar to Macross/Robotech. A proper English interpretation (or more faithful) would be appreciated.

I'm curious about the A/V setup of a lot of Dbox nay-sayers here. I mean you'd either have to be blind or working from very ordinary/old setups to not really notice a difference (or activley ignoring it simply to spite people).

Great Saiyaman · Post by **Great Saiyaman** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 1:38 am

You cannot re-make something like DBZ, you as a DBZ fan should feel ashamed to have said that. The Dub's music spices things up, it makes the scenes more exciting to watch. The reason they cannot/will not change back is simple, the American market likes what they've heard, you can't just all of the sudden change it. If you wanna hear JP music, listen to the JP Track. A real DBZ fan should find it fun to see DBZ in new perspectives, I enjoy watching JP from time-to-time, though I far prefer the Dub. It's not always about what came first.

Not quite. This is like cutting off toe and finger tips, putting the deceased in clown makeup and playing takety-sax at his funeral.

Hardy Har Har

Conan the SSJ · Post by **Conan the SSJ** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 1:40 am

MajinVejitaXV wrote:I honestly can't see why someone would want the oversaturated image. When reds or oranges are present, you get color bleed. Oh well, maybe I'm crazy. It's amusing that the only anime discs I've seen this kind of forced color saturation on in my library are FUNi's DB-related discs (for the record, I own Trigun, Cowboy Bebop, Serial Experiments Lain, Neon Genesis EVA, Gungrave, Samurai Champloo, Fruits Basket, Excel Saga, Azumanga Daioh and Akira), and yet every other series seems to get acclaim for its visual quality

-Corey

Curious, Corey, before the Platinum releases, wasn't EVA saturated all to hell? And I mean like a shitload worse than DBZ. I compare the video quality from Adult Swim airings to my Platinum release, it's like...someone with Gonorrhea urinated on ADV's original EVA masters. I can't even watch EVA on Adult Swim without cringing knowing how bad my Dragonbox-esque Platinum set makes it look.

(Sorry for getting a tad off topic.)