What exactly is a Cel?

Great Saiyaman · Post by **Great Saiyaman** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 11:41 pm

I know it has something to do with the Animation but what exactly are they & what makes them so darn expensive?

jwimz · Post by **jwimz** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 11:49 pm

They are pictures (of characters, items, or backgrounds) that are placed underneath a camera to be photographed and then all of the pictures from the camera are linked together to make the animation move (think flip books). Someone will come along and explain it better.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animation_cel

They are so expensive because they are basically "one of a kind" items.

fps_anth · Post by **fps_anth** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 11:54 pm

What I wanna know is why certain cels are maybe 50-200 bucks a pop, when certain ones, however, are OUTRAGIOUSLY expensive:

http://page8.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/h44207551

WTF is up with that. I can get both of the DBZ Dragonboxes with that money.

Taku128 · Post by **Taku128** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 1:49 am

fps_anth wrote:What I wanna know is why certain cels are maybe 50-200 bucks a pop, when certain ones, however, are OUTRAGIOUSLY expensive:

http://page8.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/h44207551

WTF is up with that. I can get both of the DBZ Dragonboxes with that money.

It depends on the quality of the frame, wether or not the background is there, and the character and moment the frame is from. Why would, say, a cel of some filler character go for the same as say, Goku as a SSJ for the first time ever? Also, I found a pretty cool cel on ebay, though its very expensive. http://cgi.ebay.com/Dragonball-Z-Cel-SS ... dZViewItem

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:05 am

Also it can depend on if it's classic or not. Looney Tunes ones I've seen go for quite a bit.

Sun_Wukong · Post by **Sun_Wukong** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 10:22 am

Do they even still use animation cels? Considering DBZ was animated almost 20 years ago they didnt have any other choice.

jwimz · Post by **jwimz** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:18 pm

Animation is mostly done on the computer today. I bet there still is some "traditional" animation still done today, but most of the time, animation is done on the computer.

Sebastian (SB) · Post by **Sebastian (SB)** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:27 pm

Cel Animation just looks more fluid & natural. Sure it may look pale in comparision to the brightness of Digital Animation. Digital Animation looks bright & pretty but it lacks......the life that was put into Cel Animation.

DBW · Post by **DBW** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:49 pm

fps_anth wrote:What I wanna know is why certain cels are maybe 50-200 bucks a pop, when certain ones, however, are OUTRAGIOUSLY expensive:

http://page8.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/h44207551

WTF is up with that. I can get both of the DBZ Dragonboxes with that money.

Fantastic cel + background + genga art + original documentation

That's an extremely rare package there, especially with the documentation, although it is overpriced (and nobody's bid on it yet). I'd say $500 - $800 is more reasonable for that set.

Sun_Wukong wrote:Do they even still use animation cels?

Toei still does most of their movies using cels, as does Ghibli. Unfortunately TV series just aren't animated like that anymore (the last I can think of is Kare Kano, 1998).

Sebastian (SB) wrote:Digital Animation looks bright & pretty but it lacks......the life that was put into Cel Animation.

I couldn't agree more. Although digital animation looks great, it also looks a little artificial to me. It's not like it bothers me when I'm watching One Piece or whatever, but if I kind of stop and take a good look at the animation, it just can't even begin to compare to hand-painted cel animation.

And if you think you'll get less errors or consistantly better animation with digital, I'll gladly direct you to Naruto. I've never seen characters go off model as frequently as in that show. One Piece has also had a good handful of effects flaws as well (which wouldn't have happened if the frames were photographed).

[/grandpa mode]

unstable_person99 · Post by **unstable_person99** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:45 pm

And if you think you'll get less errors or consistantly better animation with digital, I'll gladly direct you to Naruto. I've never seen characters go off model as frequently as in that show. One Piece has also had a good handful of effects flaws as well (which wouldn't have happened if the frames were photographed).

You've got a good point there.

Tsukento · Post by **Tsukento** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:52 pm

DBW wrote:I've never seen characters go off model as frequently as in that show.

What about the really hideous Dragon Ball artists that did a good chunk of the animation for all three series'?

And last I checked, Pokemon started using digital animation around 2002 in Japan.

DBW · Post by **DBW** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:13 pm

Tsukento wrote:
DBW wrote:I've never seen characters go off model as frequently as in that show.
What about the really hideous Dragon Ball artists that did a good chunk of the animation for all three series'?

And last I checked, Pokemon started using digital animation around 2002 in Japan.

LOL, yeah there's some pretty crappy animation in Dragon Ball, but thankfully it doesn't occur as often as many people think.

And I wasn't aware that Pokemon went digital so late, but to be fair, it started in early 1997. The first fully digital series on Japanse TV didn't even begin until November of that year (Dr. Slump), so it looks like Pokemon was just lazy in jumping on the bandwagon (they probably also had the artists on a 5-year contract).

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 10:14 pm

DBW wrote:
Tsukento wrote:
DBW wrote:I've never seen characters go off model as frequently as in that show.
What about the really hideous Dragon Ball artists that did a good chunk of the animation for all three series'?

And last I checked, Pokemon started using digital animation around 2002 in Japan.
LOL, yeah there's some pretty crappy animation in Dragon Ball, but thankfully it doesn't occur as often as many people think.

And I wasn't aware that Pokemon went digital so late, but to be fair, it started in early 1997. The first fully digital series on Japanse TV didn't even begin until November of that year (Dr. Slump), so it looks like Pokemon was just lazy in jumping on the bandwagon (they probably also had the artists on a 5-year contract).

I think the same happened with Inuyasha as you can see how it looks different later on.

Great Saiyaman · Post by **Great Saiyaman** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 12:38 am

OK, thanks.