Vegeta Appreciation thread

[ABED]

I don't like any of the Japanese voices.

How dare you, sir!

Oh Vegeta, Price of all three/eight/six Sayians...you lose to Goku, but you won fangirl's hearts.
Is it just my impression or is Vegeta really more popular among fangirls than fanboys? If so, Toriyama unknowingly discovered the key to female heart.

What, making the character an a-hole? I don't know if it's true, but if girls do in fact really like Vegeta, that bugs me. Why do they love the bad boys so much? Apparently a lot of girls like Draco Malfoy, Jess from Gilmore Girls, and Logan Echols from Veronica Mars, despite them being awful men.

[Eire]

Why? Because he is a-hole to everyone else, just not his lady for whom he is ready to move heaven and earth and his kid with whom he he shares one precise moment of fatherly love. It's like having a tamed tiger.
In case of Malfoy (I don't know the other two) that characterisation is a pure fanon made up by desperate fans who likes to bash likeable characters for every minor flaw while lauding villans for every trace of possitive emotions. With Vegeta- one big, solid canon.
Besides, he doesn't have a competetion when it comes to wish fulfilment in DBZ- Goku is a man-child, Krillian is bald and laughable, Yamaha is a joke, Nappa is bald and ugly, Androids are ugly/disapperaing quickly, Tien and his friend are making a background... There's only a Piccolo left, but when you aren't into green aliens there's only one you can sigh to.

[ABED]

Why? Because he is a-hole to everyone else, just not his lady for whom he is ready to move heaven and earth and his kid with whom he he shares one precise moment of fatherly love. It's like having a tamed tiger. <br abp="686">In case of Malfoy (I don't know the other two) that characterisation is a pure fanon made up by desperate fans who likes to bash likeable characters for every minor flaw while lauding villans for every trace of possitive emotions. With Vegeta- one big, solid canon. <br abp="687">Besides, he doesn't have a competetion when it comes to wish fulfilment in DBZ- Goku is a man-child, Krillian is bald and laughable, Yamaha is a joke, Nappa is bald and ugly, Androids are ugly/disapperaing quickly, Tenshinhan and his friend are making a background... There's only a Piccolo left, but when you aren't into green aliens there's only one you can sigh to.

Even if this was true, Vegeta didn't really care about her and his child until well after the kid was born. He didn't do anything when Gero blew up Bulma's plane. Vegeta takes bad boy to a whole new level, he's murdered entire civilzations, including children with no remorse.

[Eire]

But do we see those horrible deeds? Out of sight, out of mind. The fact that he didn't but started to care makes him even more desirable.
He is basically Jurko Bohun of DBZ sans jealously and rape tendencies.

[ABED]

Yes, we saw them many times. We saw him massacre a village.

[RandomGuy96]

Why? Because he is a-hole to everyone else, just not his lady for whom he is ready to move heaven and earth and his kid with whom he he shares one precise moment of fatherly love. It's like having a tamed tiger.

He repeatedly hits his son and almost killed his wife twice. Both times, he gave zero shits.

Besides, he doesn't have a competetion when it comes to wish fulfilment in DBZ- Goku is a man-child, Krillian is bald and laughable, Yamaha is a joke, Nappa is bald and ugly, Androids are ugly/disapperaing quickly, Tenshinhan and his friend are making a background... There's only a Piccolo left, but when you aren't into green aliens there's only one you can sigh to.

The rude, arrogant midget with stupid hair and a gargantuan forehead?

But do we see those horrible deeds? Out of sight, out of mind. The fact that he didn't but started to care makes him even more desirable.

The very first time we see him, he's eating the remains of a bunch of civilians that he killed. We then see him order the deaths of Goku's friends. And kill his own henchmen for no reason. And attempt to blow up the Earth. And beat Goku and his son to near death. Then we see him butcher an entire village, beat Gohan again, repeatedly hit his son, kill a truck driver for no reason, blow up bleachers full of people for no reason, help Cell absorb 18...

[Eire]

But he got better. At the end of Z he was judged as good and who are we to argue with heavenly judges

[RandomGuy96]

But he got better. At the end of Z he was judged as good and who are we to argue with heavenly judges

You mean the Namekian dragon? That dragon was apparently being REALLY generous with his wish. Vegeta had been nothing but a complete and utter bastard his whole life, and was still being a complete and utter bastard. The actual divine judges just went "lol no" and sent him straight to hell when he died. So, no. Vegeta was and is still evil, BOG's plot hole aside.

You know things are bad when Majin Buu has to be the voice of reason.

[Eire]

You know, Bohun who I mentioned was a murderous rapist to the point when his love prefered suicide to life in luxory with him. And he has fangirls making excuses for him since 1897. You want to argue for that long?
Especially when both sides cherry-pick examples and call everything that doesn't fit their vision a plot hole.

[RandomGuy96]

You know, Bohun who I mentioned was a murderous rapist to the point when his love prefered suicide to life in luxory with him. And he has fangirls making excuses for him since 1897. You want to argue for that long?
Especially when both sides cherry-pick examples and call everything that doesn't fit their vision a plot hole.

How does that relate to my point at all?

[Eire]

Well, that part about plot holes sums up your stance.

[ABED]

Especially when both sides cherry-pick examples and call everything that doesn't fit their vision a plot hole.

This isn't cherry picking, the things we mentioned are examples that illustrate perfectly who Vegeta is at his core - a genocidal maniac. He has some virtues later on, but nothing that absolves him of his mountain of sins. The number of dead bodies that are directly attributable to him could probably fill the Marianas Trench.

[superfunk]

I think she is just saying that you can't say Vegeta doesn't care about his family,and the bad anti-hero type that still has people he loves gets allot of fangirls.You could make a good argument for Vegeta still being evil, but i don't think the story meant him to still be evil.

[RandomGuy96]

I think she is just saying that you can't say Vegeta doesn't care about his family,

Spoiler:

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and the bad anti-hero type that still has people he loves gets allot of fangirls.You could make a good argument for Vegeta still being evil, but i don't think the story meant him to still be evil.[

[superfunk]

Taking things out of context, you can't say him hitting his son while training means he doesn't care about him when he takes him to the amusement park right afterwards, he's a saiyan . I don't have the pages to scan, but one of the two reasons he went majin is stated that it is because he does care about his family and being under babidi's spell would make him not care anymore. Post the page, i know you have it, it's originally chapter 463, it's when he fights goku, he says something like take away that placidity, and then he sacrifices his life knowing he won't see Goku again supposedly for the safety of his family. He does a fair amount of good after those scans, and it says that he is good now, it's a shonen, shit like that happens. Post the page/pages i talked about, i know that you know they exist, you just cherry picked pages to suit you.

[RandomGuy96]

Taking things out of context, you can't say him hitting his son while training means he doesn't care about him when he takes him to the amusement park right afterwards, he's a saiyan . I don't have the pages to scan, but one of the two reasons he went majin is stated that it is because he does care about his family and being under babidi's spell would make him not care anymore. Post the page, i know you have it, it's originally chapter 463, it's when he fights goku, he says something like take away that placidity, and then he sacrifices his life knowing he won't see Goku again supposedly for the safety of his family. He does a fair amount of good after those scans, and it says that he is good now, it's a shonen, shit like that happens. Post the page/pages i talked about, i know that you know they exist, you just cherry picked pages to suit you.

Note that I wasn't asserting that Vegeta not caring was a fact or anything. I was just refuting the idea that you can't think he doesn't care, when there's a lot of evidence that he doesn't. If he truly cared, he wouldn't have endangered the world that his wife and son lived on. If he truly cared, he wouldn't almost kill his wife (twice). If he truly cared, he wouldn't abuse his son and yell at him when he complains about being abused. If he truly cared, Majin Buu never would have been a problem. The same applies to the idea that the story meant for us to see him as a good guy. I mean, God himself literally had to come on to the panel to explain to us that he's an evil bastard who will go to hell, and some people STILL don't believe him.

And don't gimme that "oh, he repented in the few hours after he died" drivel. He didn't do anything heroic in that time. He continued to be an asshole who makes thinks worse solely to stroke his own ego. He was literally willing to let the entire universe get doomed just to spite Goku (actually, why didn't he know that Buu ate Trunks and Bulma until Goku told him?), and was willing to risk the universe again soon after. First, because he didn't want to fuse with Goku again. Then he did it because he thought fighting Buu would be fun. Then he did it a third time when he decided that making the Earthlings give their life force to stop the menace that he released was a better plan than just bringing Gohan to one-shot Buu, having Goten and Trunks fuse (and then one-shot Buu), or doing the stupid dance with Goku (and then one-shotting Buu).

[superfunk]

Can you both care and not care at the same time? it has to be one or the other, in chapter 463, he flat out says he cares about his family and his actions follow suit(sacrifice, agreeing to fuse with Goku after hearing about Bulma and trunks death). It also says he is considered good after the revival. In real world terms you can say yes! vegeta is still evil, but in this waked out shonen you can go from killing people to saving the world in the same arc and still be considered good.

[RandomGuy96]

Can you both care and not care at the same time? it has to be one or the other, in chapter 463, he flat out says he cares about his family and his actions follow suit(sacrifice, agreeing to fuse with Goku after hearing about Bulma and trunks death). It also says he is considered good after the revival. In real world terms you can say yes! vegeta is still evil, but in this waked out shonen you can go from killing people to saving the world in the same arc and still be considered good.

I'm saying he doesn't care (or that if he does, it's superficial and irrelevant). He's in denial about it, himself. His actions are clearly those of a man who puts his own ego over everything else, including his own family. If he had truly cared about his family, that whole Babidi bullshit would never have happened. If he truly cared about his family, he wouldn't have crushed the Potara inside Boo's body (he's damn lucky they found Mr. Buu's pod so soon, Super Buu was literally seconds away from killing them). If he truly cared, he would have used fusion against Pure Buu (or at least brought Gohan or Gotenks) rather than risk the lives of not only his family but the entire universe in a pointlessly complicated, idiotic, and ego-stroking plan.

No, it didn't. Namek's dragon just considered him someone who WASN'T "really, really bad" (and honestly, given Pilaf's survival, that condition was probably only there to spite Babidi). The subjective moral interpretation of one guy going on limited information and having to abide by vague rules isn't worth that much.

[superfunk]

Can you both care and not care at the same time? it has to be one or the other, in chapter 463, he flat out says he cares about his family and his actions follow suit(sacrifice, agreeing to fuse with Goku after hearing about Bulma and trunks death). It also says he is considered good after the revival. In real world terms you can say yes! vegeta is still evil, but in this waked out shonen you can go from killing people to saving the world in the same arc and still be considered good.

I'm saying he doesn't care (or that if he does, it's superficial and irrelevant). He's in denial about it, himself. His actions are clearly those of a man who puts his own ego over everything else, including his own family. If he had truly cared about his family, that whole Babidi bullshit would never have happened. If he truly cared about his family, he wouldn't have crushed the Potara inside Boo's body (he's damn lucky they found Mr. Buu's pod so soon, Super Buu was literally seconds away from killing them). If he truly cared, he would have used fusion against Pure Buu (or at least brought Gohan or Gotenks) rather than risk the lives of not only his family but the entire universe in a pointlessly complicated, idiotic, and ego-stroking plan.

No, it didn't. Namek's dragon just considered him someone who WASN'T "really, really bad" (and honestly, given Pilaf's survival, that condition was probably only there to spite Babidi). The subjective moral interpretation of one guy going on limited information and having to abide by vague rules isn't worth that much.

So he flat out says it(in fiction this means it's true), and afterwards there is no evidence to say this isn't true, he sacrifices himself for his family's safety knowing he will never see Goku again(which is so important to him) and that he won't keep his body, he agrees initially to fuse with goku which is something he hates because of the death of his family, and you think he doesn't care? pffft ok.

[RandomGuy96]

Can you both care and not care at the same time? it has to be one or the other, in chapter 463, he flat out says he cares about his family and his actions follow suit(sacrifice, agreeing to fuse with Goku after hearing about Bulma and trunks death). It also says he is considered good after the revival. In real world terms you can say yes! vegeta is still evil, but in this waked out shonen you can go from killing people to saving the world in the same arc and still be considered good.

I'm saying he doesn't care (or that if he does, it's superficial and irrelevant). He's in denial about it, himself. His actions are clearly those of a man who puts his own ego over everything else, including his own family. If he had truly cared about his family, that whole Babidi bullshit would never have happened. If he truly cared about his family, he wouldn't have crushed the Potara inside Boo's body (he's damn lucky they found Mr. Buu's pod so soon, Super Buu was literally seconds away from killing them). If he truly cared, he would have used fusion against Pure Buu (or at least brought Gohan or Gotenks) rather than risk the lives of not only his family but the entire universe in a pointlessly complicated, idiotic, and ego-stroking plan.

No, it didn't. Namek's dragon just considered him someone who WASN'T "really, really bad" (and honestly, given Pilaf's survival, that condition was probably only there to spite Babidi). The subjective moral interpretation of one guy going on limited information and having to abide by vague rules isn't worth that much.

So he flat out says it(in fiction this means it's true), and afterwards there is no evidence to say this isn't true, he sacrifices himself for his family's safety knowing he will never see Goku again(which is so important to him) and that he won't keep his body, he agrees initially to fuse with goku which is something he hates because of the death of his family, and you think he doesn't care? pffft ok.

He's a bullshitter. His actions make that clear.

Except, you know, risking his family's lives for his own ego...

Small gestures are nice. They do not, however, cancel out the majority of his actions. More importantly, Buu was going to kill him anyway.

And up until Goku mentioned that, he was fully willing to let the universe be destroyed just to spite Goku for not using Super Saiyan 3. What a great guy! More importantly, he then refuses to fuse with Goku when the possibility is brought up again later. Three or four times.