Is "Mystic" a separate form or is Gohan always "Mystic"?

[Angelus]

For Gohan's case, does he have SSJ, SSJ2, and Mystic/Ultimate form OR does he ONLY have Mystic/Ultimate form now? No GT please.

So is this Mystic/Ultimate form a separate form on it's own? Meaning, being in base is just base until you "Transform" to "Mystic/Ultimate" form, which we can't tell the difference of by appearance. Or does being unlocked by Elder Kai mean that you only have Mystic/Ultimate form permanently?

[Kaboom]

We've never had Gohan's reworked relationship between his Super Saiyan and his "ultimate" state clearly explained to us, really, so a lot of it is guesswork.

Based on what we've seen in post-Z stuff, though, I'm of the belief that all his Super Saiyan 1 and 2 power, and more on top of that, was simply condensed into his base form, which is now super-powerful and labeled as his "ultimate" state. He can still go Super Saiyan on top of that, but whether he still gets any significant amount of power from it is still largely unexplained.

[Darkprince410]

For Gohan's case, does he have SSJ, SSJ2, and Mystic/Ultimate form OR does he ONLY have Mystic/Ultimate form now? No GT please.

So is this Mystic/Ultimate form a separate form on it's own? Meaning, being in base is just base until you "Transform" to "Mystic/Ultimate" form, which we can't tell the difference of by appearance. Or does being unlocked by Elder Kai mean that you only have Mystic/Ultimate form permanently?

Though things like movie 13 would try to suggest otherwise, what we see of Gohan in the manga after the whole battle with Pure Buu suggests that it's not a form he transforms into and out of like a Super Saiya-jin form, and that it's essentially his new base that he goes around in from now on. The only "transforming" part was when he first needed to activate it on Kaioushin's planet, and after that he has the physical appearance of being in that state even when there's no fighting or potential fighting to be done. That suggests that, after he triggered the change, it's now his new default.

[CatouttaHell]

Toei always drawing Gohan's Ultimate thing as a transformation from his base form is pretty interesting when you consider they made his Ultimate state his base form and made him go SSj on top of it in GT.

[RandomGuy96]

For Gohan's case, does he have SSJ, SSJ2, and Mystic/Ultimate form OR does he ONLY have Mystic/Ultimate form now? No GT please.

So is this Mystic/Ultimate form a separate form on it's own? Meaning, being in base is just base until you "Transform" to "Mystic/Ultimate" form, which we can't tell the difference of by appearance. Or does being unlocked by Elder Kai mean that you only have Mystic/Ultimate form permanently?

Though things like movie 13 would try to suggest otherwise, what we see of Gohan in the manga after the whole battle with Pure Buu suggests that it's not a form he transforms into and out of like a Super Saiya-jin form, and that it's essentially his new base that he goes around in from now on. The only "transforming" part was when he first needed to activate it on Kaioushin's planet, and after that he has the physical appearance of being in that state even when there's no fighting or potential fighting to be done. That suggests that, after he triggered the change, it's now his new default.

Except that doesn't fit Goku's statement that he and Gohan can fuse.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

When does Goku suggest Metamorean fusion with Gohan after he get's his potential unlocked?

[RandomGuy96]

When does Goku suggest Metamorean fusion with Gohan after he get's his potential unlocked?

While he's watching Gohan get beat to death by Super Buu:

[Darkprince410]

For Gohan's case, does he have SSJ, SSJ2, and Mystic/Ultimate form OR does he ONLY have Mystic/Ultimate form now? No GT please.

So is this Mystic/Ultimate form a separate form on it's own? Meaning, being in base is just base until you "Transform" to "Mystic/Ultimate" form, which we can't tell the difference of by appearance. Or does being unlocked by Elder Kai mean that you only have Mystic/Ultimate form permanently?

Though things like movie 13 would try to suggest otherwise, what we see of Gohan in the manga after the whole battle with Pure Buu suggests that it's not a form he transforms into and out of like a Super Saiya-jin form, and that it's essentially his new base that he goes around in from now on. The only "transforming" part was when he first needed to activate it on Kaioushin's planet, and after that he has the physical appearance of being in that state even when there's no fighting or potential fighting to be done. That suggests that, after he triggered the change, it's now his new default.

Except that doesn't fit Goku's statement that he and Gohan can fuse.

Why would that matter? Gohan could simply just lower his battle power to match his father's. It's no different than what Goku wanted Trunks to do for the sake of Goten, just on a much larger scale.

[RandomGuy96]

Why would that matter? Gohan could simply just lower his battle power to match his father's. It's no different than what Goku wanted Trunks to do for the sake of Goten, just on a much larger scale.

Except that wouldn't fit with Goku's statement that one must have a similar battle power to the person they're fusing with, and that he couldn't use the technique because no one in the afterlife was strong enough.

[Marco Polo]

I don't think it's a separate form he can transform into and out of. Sure, in Movie 13 he powers up and gets that white-ish aura, but that doesn't mean it's a transformation. We've had non transformative auras before in the series:







As for Battle of Gods, we all know they screwed up and recolored Gohan's SSJ form due to fan criticism.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

When does Goku suggest Metamorean fusion with Gohan after he get's his potential unlocked?

While he's watching Gohan get beat to death by Super Buu:

Doesn't exactly seem like he was thinking that hard when he said it. He may not have been factoring in how Gohan's new power works, or perhaps he's not even sure himself. So he just thinks it will work.

[RandomGuy96]

When does Goku suggest Metamorean fusion with Gohan after he get's his potential unlocked?

While he's watching Gohan get beat to death by Super Buu:

Doesn't exactly seem like he was thinking that hard when he said it. He may not have been factoring in how Gohan's new power works, or perhaps he's not even sure himself. So he just thinks it will work.

He thought about it for some time before he said it. And Elder Kaioshin doesn't shoot the idea down by saying it won't work. He just says that Boo probably wouldn't let them do the dance (which was correct; he's not Cell, after all). If that method of fusion just wouldn't work in the first place, you'd think that Elder Kaioshin, Goku, or the author would bring it up at one point.

[Darkprince410]

Except that wouldn't fit with Goku's statement that one must have a similar battle power to the person they're fusing with, and that he couldn't use the technique because no one in the afterlife was strong enough.

However, he points out later that they need to have identical battle powers, and then has Trunks lower his to match Goten's, which suggests that it's the battle power of the two at the time they try to fuse, not in general.

“Trunks’ ki is just a little bit bigger…Your ki both have to be exactly the same to perform Fusion. Trunks, suppress your ki a little bit and make yourself even with Goten.”

Likewise, the "on par" that he mentions doesn't necessarily mean his battle power, since "on par" just relates to equality, and it could just as much be in relation to no one being a near match to his physical size.

[RandomGuy96]

However, he points out later that they need to have identical battle powers, and then has Trunks lower his to match Goten's, which suggests that it's the battle power of the two at the time they try to fuse, not in general.

Again, if that was true, then his statement that no one in the afterlife was strong enough to fuse with him wouldn't make any sense.

Likewise, the "on par" that he mentions doesn't necessarily mean his battle power, since "on par" just relates to equality, and it could just as much be in relation to no one being a near match to his physical size.

Do you seriously think that there's no one in the afterlife who is the size of an average man? It's very obvious that "on par" is referring to battle power.

[Darkprince410]

Likewise, the "on par" that he mentions doesn't necessarily mean his battle power, since "on par" just relates to equality, and it could just as much be in relation to no one being a near match to his physical size.

Do you seriously think that there's no one in the afterlife who is the size of an average man? It's very obvious that "on par" is referring to battle power.

We don't know when exactly he learned it during those seven years, nor how many individuals he ever came across since he learned it. Besides, he'd have to deal not with just physical size, but also racial differences, seeing as how there'd be individuals from all over the universe of all different races.

We see a notable alteration in how Toriyama draws Gohan when he gets Rou Kaioushin's power-up, and even during times of non-combat, he's still shown in that state. If it were meant to be something that he could transform in and out of, then there's no logical reason that he'd have a permanent alteration to how he's drawn after. It makes far more sense that it's a state he's always in from now on.

[Angelus]

Isn't it one of the criteria for fusing, that both dancers need to be of the same race? Gohan is a half-breed but that still qualifies. Piccolo did demonstrate the dance with Goku, but they never ended up fusing, even when they did the dance correctly. Krillin and Piccolo also tried it but it didn't fuse them either but that must've been a mix of not being the same race and having way too much difference in height.

[Saitou Hajime]

I don't think it's a separate form he can transform into and out of. Sure, in Movie 13 he powers up and gets that white-ish aura, but that doesn't mean it's a transformation. We've had non transformative auras before in the series:







As for Battle of Gods, we all know they screwed up and recolored Gohan's SSJ form due to fan criticism.

Gohan's facial design changes whenever he switches back and forth between normal and Ultimate forms:

[Darkprince410]

Isn't it one of the criteria for fusing, that both dancers need to be of the same race? Gohan is a half-breed but that still qualifies. Piccolo did demonstrate the dance with Goku, but they never ended up fusing, even when they did the dance correctly. Krillin and Piccolo also tried it but it didn't fuse them either but that must've been a mix of not being the same race and having way too much difference in height.

They never bothered to synch their battle powers up during those two instances. They were just demonstrating the moves of the dance, not actually going through every step required to fuse. It could be argued that "body type" does include being of compatible races

[Marco Polo]

Gohan's facial design changes whenever he switches back and forth between normal and Ultimate forms:

That's just Toei inconsistency. If it were a form that he can transform out of, why does he turn it off in that first screenshot, yet he doesn't for the whole duration of the "Uub Arc"?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

So is this Mystic/Ultimate form a separate form on it's own? Meaning, being in base is just base until you "Transform" to "Mystic/Ultimate" form, which we can't tell the difference of by appearance.

The manga heavily implies that this is the case.

Gohan's hairstyle after getting this power is different when he is fighting and when he is not fighting, and Goku believed that he could do Fusion with Gohan as Super Saiyans, and later wanted to do the same with the Potara. Rou Kaioshin told him to turn Super Saiyan after merging with Gohan, but he wouldn't have to because the Potara on their own would make them powerful enough in base. He never corrected him that he wouldn't be able to use Fusion with Gohan because Gohan is too stronger than his SS3 form, or that he wouldn't be able to do Super Saiyan Fusion/Potara because Gohan can't transform anymore, or base "Gokhan" would be strong enough because Gohan is very strong.

Battle of Gods confirms this: It shows Gohan "transforming" to Ultimate, and alternatively transform into a Super Saiyan.