Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection 'F'"

[Chuquita]

Not exactly. You've got a bit of misinterpretation on your hands. Toriyama has outright confirmed that Goku has absorbed the God power, and the same is basically said in the film itself when Beerus mentions that Goku has absorbed that "world", "realm" or whatever the line was.

It just means he no longer requires the whole group ritual to activate SSG. Toriyama's not one to throw away something he worked so hard to make and fought with his fellow animators over how SSG would look, just to get rid of it in the next film. The only confirmation we have about "Fukkatsu no F" is that Goku doesn't go Super Saiyan. It said nothing about his God form. The form itself has a time limit, like the Potara Fusion, so it's not something that's sustainable.

As of yet there's no explanation for Freeza's sudden power boost. For him to have increased so much as to overwhelm Goku would suggest that Goku doesn't really retain the boon he had after his God form disabled while fighting Birus. Otherwise Freeza would be a cake walk for, well, most everyone now and would end kinda like how the DMB mini-comic indicated- http://www.dragonball-multiverse.com/en ... tml#h_read

I had not thought of it from the angle of 'Toriyama battled Yamamuro to get his design chosen'. That did happen.
I wouldn't mind it if Gokû can only use the form's full package looks and all in bursts. It's already a little reminiscent of kaio-ken anyway (and I really like kaio-ken).

[lord turbo]

No I'm not, "the gist of becoming a Super Saiyan" and "just become a Super Saiyan" are completely different.

Yes you are, do you even know what the word gist means? It means the main or essential part of a matter. Synonyms with essence, point, substance, burden, kernel, import. How does Gohan turn into his Ultimate state, by using the main or essential thing to become SSJ. Again, that's why I said pointless semantics, you didn't even address my other point I used to expand why I believed in that notion which was the Ultimate state was shown earlier to gradually be replacing SSJ.

Both translations state the same thing in a different way so I don't see what's the problem here?

[Galan007]

Isn't Gohan fighting Beerus in his 'Mystic' form, and then later transforming into a SSJ when he and the other Saiyans preformed the 'Godly ki ritual', definitive proof that he can access both forms at will..?

[TheDevilsCorpse]

It just means he no longer requires the whole group ritual to activate SSG. Toriyama's not one to throw away something he worked so hard to make and fought with his fellow animators over how SSG would look, just to get rid of it in the next film. The only confirmation we have about "Fukkatsu no F" is that Goku doesn't go Super Saiyan. It said nothing about his God form. The form itself has a time limit, like the Potara Fusion, so it's not something that's sustainable.

As of yet there's no explanation for Freeza's sudden power boost. For him to have increased so much as to overwhelm Goku would suggest that Goku doesn't really retain the boon he had after his God form disabled while fighting Birus. Otherwise Freeza would be a cake walk for, well, most everyone now and would end kinda like how the DMB mini-comic indicated- http://www.dragonball-multiverse.com/en ... tml#h_read

The actual quote was posted right below my post. It says nothing about the ritual. Toriyama literally stated that Goku doesn't need Super Saiyan God anymore because he already absorbed that power. There's really no other valid interpretation.

We have statements telling us Freeza trains for the first time in his life and will almost certainly achieve a new form (which could be god related itself). It's enough of a power up to make him rival a God empowered Goku when you don't think about it in terms of numbers.

[Kamiccolo9]

No I'm not, "the gist of becoming a Super Saiyan" and "just become a Super Saiyan" are completely different.

Yes you are, do you even know what the word gist means? It means the main or essential part of a matter. Synonyms with essence, point, substance, burden, kernel, import. How does Gohan turn into his Ultimate state, by using the main or essential thing to become SSJ. Again, that's why I said pointless semantics, you didn't even address my other point I used to expand why I believed in that notion which was the Ultimate state was shown earlier to gradually be replacing SSJ.

Both translations state the same thing in a different way so I don't see what's the problem here?

You're ignoring the second part. "Do that Super Saiyan thing and throw in a kiai."
SSJ=Gohan doing his SSJ thing.
Ultimate=Gohan doing his SSJ thing and throwing in a kiai.

[rereboy]

Pretty much all SSJ transformations in the series had a Kiai in it. Its hard to see how its different.

And if turning mystic is that close to turning SSJ, how do we know that he can turn SSJ after the ritual? If him being unable to turn SSJ is a fan theory, so is him being able to turn SSJ.

Like I said before, fans don't really have a problem with Gohan being able to use SSJ, they have a problem with having no explanation for all this ever since GT, when two lines of dialog would be enough to offer an explanation and fix it.

[Zelvin]

I had not thought of it from the angle of 'Toriyama battled Yamamuro to get his design chosen'. That did happen.
I wouldn't mind it if Gokû can only use the form's full package looks and all in bursts. It's already a little reminiscent of kaio-ken anyway (and I really like kaio-ken).

Well I also thought along that line, because the story always needed something bigger to get the job done and replace a previous ability. In the glory days of Dragon Ball, Goku always took something that gave him a huge power boost. Like the Super Holy Water that bumped him enough to take down King Piccolo. Then against Piccolo at the 23rd budokai, we don't get it revealed until much later in DBZ that Goku spent some time in the Room of Spirit and Time to train for his fight against Piccolo.

Then in DBZ Goku couldn't handle Raditz, so he trains and gets the Kaioken to deal with the Saiyans. And he kept using it through his fight with Ginyu and much of his fighting against Freeza. It was the trump card. Then we got Super Saiyan that replaces Kaioken. And when that wasn't enough we got SS2, then SS3. And now that the hair was getting too ridiculous, it was time to change things and replace it with something better and more laid back. Hence we got Super Saiyan God.

So, having only recently been introduced to this, I don't see Toriyama just tossing it in the wastebin so soon. Especially since we've only seen it in action once. Plus, you don't really get any higher than God status. All that's left is Omnipotence, and Toriyama-bot already claims that.

I don't see the SSG form changing in appearance, on tier of power. There are 12 Gods of Destruction that're supposed to exist. Each one may be incrementally stronger and have their own Tier. Kinda like how some martial arts studies have varying degrees of Black Belt. Some can have up to 12 or more degrees. I feel we'll see somethin akin to that with the Gods, as opposed to just more and more transformations that don't really amount to anything more than flash.

From how I see it, Super Saiyan God is the epitome of what they can achieve. There is no higher form. You don't transform further, you just learn to utilize and increase that forms power without a set limit, unlike the previous SSJ forms that all had specific multipliers attached to them.

[EmmaWinters]

Isn't Gohan fighting Beerus in his 'Mystic' form, and then later transforming into a SSJ when he and the other Saiyans preformed the 'Godly ki ritual', definitive proof that he can access both forms at will..?

Yes. The problem here is that he believes this is a retcon, which it isn't.

[Zelvin]

Isn't Gohan fighting Beerus in his 'Mystic' form, and then later transforming into a SSJ when he and the other Saiyans preformed the 'Godly ki ritual', definitive proof that he can access both forms at will..?

Yes. The problem here is that he believes this is a retcon, which it isn't.

I always figured Gohan going SSJ was for Cosmetic reasons. An indication of his Saiyan Energy and heritage as opposed to his Human half.

[lord turbo]

You're ignoring the second part. "Do that Super Saiyan thing and throw in a kiai."
SSJ=Gohan doing his SSJ thing.
Ultimate=Gohan doing his SSJ thing and throwing in a kiai.

The second part is irrelevant as it doesn't change the first part. Activate Ultimate by turning SSJ, throwing in a kiai is just further fluff as he activated Ultimate earlier by turning SSJ by getting angry (Unknown to him at the time), similar to how he turned SSJ when Videl was getting beat up in the tournament by Spopovich, without the fore knowledge of throwing in a kiai. The only reason he was in an in between base/SSJ state similar to how he was against Kibito was because the ritual was half way finished. I don't wish to part take in further needless discussion of semantics that has a pretty straight forward answer. Its like you guys are looking for loop holes in those statements to keep an argument going.

Isn't Gohan fighting Beerus in his 'Mystic' form, and then later transforming into a SSJ when he and the other Saiyans preformed the 'Godly ki ritual', definitive proof that he can access both forms at will..?

Yes. The problem here is that he believes this is a retcon, which it isn't.

Please don't put words in my mouth, I never said such a thing. I simply noted that him turning SSJ was simply an inconsistency due to prior established events in the main series, not a rewrite. I got no problems with him using SSJ in BoGs or RoF if there was a proper explanation for it, but since there currently isn't one at the moment its simply a plot hole that's never addressed. It ain't like DB is a plot hole free series, this is just another one added into the mix due to careless writing.

[singsing]

Was this ever stated? I can't remember this being said. Are you basing this off of the scene where he loses the form?

It was quite clearly stated during Shenron's exposition speech that it has a time limit, and Beerus also mentioned it when his SSG ran out.

[Galan007]

Yeah...

Shenron: "The [Super Saiyan God] easily defeated the evil Saiyans with his immense power. But he then vanished as quickly as he came, as the energy the Saiyans had offered him could not last for long."

[EmmaWinters]

Was this ever stated? I can't remember this being said. Are you basing this off of the scene where he loses the form?

It was quite clearly stated during Shenron's exposition speech that it has a time limit, and Beerus also mentioned it when his SSG ran out.

Oh, right. He says that it was temporary. I was trying to think of some set time limit like fusion has.

[Hugo Boss]

Maybe Goku was a special case. I don't think he was meant to absorb that realm of power at first. Fighting a god could have factored in something.

[Galan007]

Maybe Goku was a special case. I don't think he was meant to absorb that realm of power at first. Fighting a god could have factored in something.

Even Beerus stated that he didn't think it was possible to absorb/retain Godly ki like Goku did... Beerus even went so far as to call Goku a "genius/prodigy"(even though Goku retained said ki inadvertently.) So yeah, he definitely seemed to be the exception to the rule.

[Chuquita]

I hope we're in for at least something significant in the magazines plot-wise next month. T_T

Weekly is on break until the 19th. VJump comes out the 21st. I have so many unanswered questions about this movie's plot. I hope at least one of them has something.

[DragonBoxZTheMovies]

What I'd do to have that in my possession.
https://twitter.com/nyuhaticinema/statu ... 08/photo/1
Excitement's starting to build. Really looking forward to next year!

[jollyr]

To everyone who thinks there may be someone else behind the scenes (which I'm not really sold on) did you ever think it may be Mira an Towa? Tagomas armor vaguely resembles Evil Bardocks and it would make sense given how everythings been tying together in this new era. Just a thought

[Zelvin]

To everyone who thinks there may be someone else behind the scenes (which I'm not really sold on) did you ever think it may be Mira an Towa? Tagomas armor vaguely resembles Evil Bardocks and it would make sense given how everythings been tying together in this new era. Just a thought

No because, as it stands, they only exist within the Game media; DBO and Xenoverse. Since DBO was discontinued and Xenoverse is effectively picking up that story, it wouldn't do to have two figures whose purpose is to completely much up the canon in a canon film.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

Isn't Gohan fighting Beerus in his 'Mystic' form, and then later transforming into a SSJ when he and the other Saiyans preformed the 'Godly ki ritual', definitive proof that he can access both forms at will..?

Yes and no. I dont think it was the intended implication, but as is isnt a plothole. From what I'm told its just an animation mistake. Him in SSJ was already set in the movie, they just changed the first appearance in response to the error called on it. But they didn't fix it for the SSJGod scene. Or that SSJ is just him powering up with raw ki, where as Mystic is him just buffing up and releasing his inner strengths without transforming similar to Freeza's 100% without the strain or bulk.