Dub & Cropping Questions

[Ultimate_DB_Fan]

For the DBZ movies, does anyone know why the scripts were innacurate? I sometimes get the time-table of certain things in regards to the franchise jumbled. Was it laziness, or did Funimation suffer from the same translation issues that f'd up their scripts for the season 3 dub and beyond?

Lastly, while I'm one of those fans who don't mind the cropping of the series with the BD's (they did a better job than on the bricks), does anyone know or have any theories as to why Funi won't re-release the first series on BD and crop those? Do you suppose that they're afraid of a certain backlash that they have otherwise gotten from Z? Do you think the criticisms that they've recieved with Z is enough that they don't feel it shouldn't be done?

[Kakacarrottop]

For the DBZ movies, does anyone know why the scripts were innacurate? I sometimes get the time-table of certain things in regards to the franchise jumbled. Was it laziness, or did Funimation suffer from the same translation issues that f'd up their scripts for the season 3 dub and beyond?

I believe their last Movie dub was in 2006 (for either Wrath of the Dragon or their redub of the first 3), and that was back when they were redubbing the old Saban era episodes from the first two seasons for the Orange Bricks and before Kai ever existed, so their movie dubs were still very much from an era when they were localizing the franchise for American/Western audiences.

Also i don't get why they had to redub the first 3 movies, i mean i can understand redubbing the first two seasons since they were so heavily censored, but the first 3 films done in association with Pioneer in the 90s were all uncut and had great performances from the Ocean cast. In contrast their dubs, while still also uncut, were nowhere near as accurate and had lacklustre voice acting + Nathan Johnson's craptastic music.

[Mewzard]

For the DBZ movies, does anyone know why the scripts were innacurate? I sometimes get the time-table of certain things in regards to the franchise jumbled. Was it laziness, or did Funimation suffer from the same translation issues that f'd up their scripts for the season 3 dub and beyond?

I believe their last Movie dub was in 2006 (for either Wrath of the Dragon or their redub of the first 3), and that was back when they were redubbing the old Saban era episodes from the first two seasons for the Orange Bricks and before Kai ever existed, so their movie dubs were still very much from an era when they were localizing the franchise for American/Western audiences.

Also i don't get why they had to redub the first 3 movies, i mean i can understand redubbing the first two seasons since they were so heavily censored, but the first 3 films done in association with Pioneer in the 90s were all uncut and had great performances from the Ocean cast. In contrast their dubs, while still also uncut, were nowhere near as accurate and had lacklustre voice acting + Nathan Johnson's craptastic music.

Consistency of voice cast perhaps? Rather than cycle through multiple actors for everyone, let everyone have one voice cast for the product? Maybe, I don't know, it's just a thought.

[Kakacarrottop]

For the DBZ movies, does anyone know why the scripts were innacurate? I sometimes get the time-table of certain things in regards to the franchise jumbled. Was it laziness, or did Funimation suffer from the same translation issues that f'd up their scripts for the season 3 dub and beyond?

I believe their last Movie dub was in 2006 (for either Wrath of the Dragon or their redub of the first 3), and that was back when they were redubbing the old Saban era episodes from the first two seasons for the Orange Bricks and before Kai ever existed, so their movie dubs were still very much from an era when they were localizing the franchise for American/Western audiences.

Also i don't get why they had to redub the first 3 movies, i mean i can understand redubbing the first two seasons since they were so heavily censored, but the first 3 films done in association with Pioneer in the 90s were all uncut and had great performances from the Ocean cast. In contrast their dubs, while still also uncut, were nowhere near as accurate and had lacklustre voice acting + Nathan Johnson's craptastic music.

Consistency of voice cast perhaps? Rather than cycle through multiple actors for everyone, let everyone have one voice cast for the product? Maybe, I don't know, it's just a thought.

I'd rather have good acting/voices over "consistency of voice cast". Seriously will one film not having Schemmel's nasally voice or Sabat's chain-smoking biker voice ruin the franchise for everyone? Plus most people grew up with Ocean's dub for the first 3 movies so they hold more nostalgia for it rather than FUNi's second-rate redub.

[Mewzard]

Well, at this point with the Kai dub, I'd say we got a superior product with the Funi cast, so it's all good now.

Maybe re-releasing it with a new dub cast would have gotten them more money at the time, being able to plug it as "new". They're already selling everything Ocean did with them in the Rock the Dragon set, so that's available too for those interested in it.

[Kakacarrottop]

Also just to elaborate on my first post, i think for their Tree of Might redub in 2005(?) they used something similar to the script for the edited 1997 TV Ocean dub version. For their redub of the first two seasons i heard they also used scripts similar to the Ocean dub scripts for some reason (probably because they had to dumb down the dialogue for TV or something).

[VegettoEX]

Also just to elaborate on my first post, i think for their Tree of Might redub in 2005(?) they used something similar to the script for the edited 1997 TV Ocean dub version. For their redub of the first two seasons i heard they also used scripts similar to the Ocean dub scripts for some reason (probably because they had to dumb down the dialogue for TV or something).

Worth pointing out, probably, that the "Ocean dub" of the first two "seasons" was and remains a FUNimation dub. They were the company that made it. They were the company that wrote those scripts.

The entire point of the "Ultimate Uncut Edition" was to be... well, "uncut"... so it seems bizarre that they would think about TV broadcasts when they were already producing other "uncut" & "edited" versions for other material. I'm sure it was a combination of "let's just get this done" combined with whomever it was in charge of the scripts and their level of caring/dedication/time combined with plenty of other production factors that we'll never be privy to. It seems someone said "get rid of the parachutes line and the brilliant scientist line and let's call it a day". And so there you go.

Jump ahead a few years to folks like Sabat being more in charge with script writers/adapters who cared even more and saw the opportunity they had with Kai, and there ya' go.

[Kakacarrottop]

Worth pointing out, probably, that the "Ocean dub" of the first two "seasons" was and remains a FUNimation dub. They were the company that made it. They were the company that wrote those scripts.

Well i am aware they were the brains behind most of that dub and were/are the ones who own all the rights to it, but to be fair the censorship demands and music were coming from another entirely different company (Saban Entertainment in LA) with the acting also being done in Canada. This combined with the fact FUNi made their own in-house dubs for the first two seasons means it's just easier to refer to that dub as the "Ocean dub" or "Saban dub" (i prefer the latter term since it's the only dub that company were involved with).

[ABED]

Plus most people grew up with Ocean's dub for the first 3 movies so they hold more nostalgia for it rather than FUNi's second-rate redub.

The redub of those movies aren't second rate. By then, the cast had experience and the scripts weren't that different from those used by the Ocean dub.

Also i don't get why they had to redub the first 3 movies, i mean i can understand redubbing the first two seasons since they were so heavily censored, but the first 3 films done in association with Pioneer in the 90s were all uncut and had great performances from the Ocean cast. In contrast their dubs, while still also uncut, were nowhere near as accurate and had lacklustre voice acting + Nathan Johnson's craptastic music.

The music isn't an issue now that you have the option of switching to a track w/ the JPN music. Are you irritated that the ocean dub of those movies aren't as available?

[Kakacarrottop]

Plus most people grew up with Ocean's dub for the first 3 movies so they hold more nostalgia for it rather than FUNi's second-rate redub.
The redub of those movies aren't second rate. By then, the cast had experience and the scripts weren't that different from those used by the Ocean dub.

Also i don't get why they had to redub the first 3 movies, i mean i can understand redubbing the first two seasons since they were so heavily censored, but the first 3 films done in association with Pioneer in the 90s were all uncut and had great performances from the Ocean cast. In contrast their dubs, while still also uncut, were nowhere near as accurate and had lacklustre voice acting + Nathan Johnson's craptastic music.

The music isn't an issue now that you have the option of switching to a track w/ the JPN music. Are you irritated that the ocean dub of those movies aren't as available?

No, although if you asked me prior to them releasing the Rock the Dragon Edition box set then i'd say yes. I'm irritated because the redub just felt unnecessary and like a cheap cash grab aimed at the then minority who were only familiar with FUNi's in-house cast. Honestly the original uncut dubs of the first 3 films were pretty much perfection, why try to improve on perfection?

Also Tree of Might had an accurate uncut version, and an unreleased TV version which they could of just released to appease hardcore and casual fans, instead of rushing out an in-house dub for the sole purpose of making actors like Schemmel and Sabat even richer.

[ABED]

No, although if you asked me prior to them releasing the Rock the Dragon Edition box set then i'd say yes. I'm irritated because the redub just felt unnecessary and like a cheap cash grab aimed at the then minority who were only familiar with FUNi's in-house cast. Honestly the original uncut dubs of the first 3 films were pretty much perfection, why try to improve on perfection?

If you have the movies then why does it matter if it's a cash grab, just don't buy them. And those films aren't perfect, they have Kelamis.

Also Tree of Might had an accurate uncut version, and an unreleased TV version which they could of just released to appease hardcore and casual fans, instead of rushing out an in-house dub for the sole purpose of making actors like Schemmel and Sabat even richer.

They aren't rich by any stretch of the imagination. I enjoy having two different versions of the dub.

[theoriginalbilis]

I still find it amusing to this day that the in-house FUNi dubs for the movies run the entire gamut from faithful [Z Movie 1, Z Movie 8] to barely resembling it's former self [DB Movie 3, Z Movie 4, etc...]

The fact that I can enjoy these weird adaptations with the original Japanese score in the comfort of my living room makes it all the more surreal. At least Kai's is a fresh start and not such a "Frankenstein" collection of old/new actors and scripts like the early FUNimation work.

[ABED]

I don't recall movie 3 or even 4 being that bad. It's 7 that's god awful.

[dbboxkaifan]

as to why Funi won't re-release the DB series on BD and crop those? Do you suppose that they're afraid of a certain backlash that they have otherwise gotten from Z? Do you think the criticisms that they've recieved with Z is enough that they don't feel it shouldn't be done?

This is an absolutely terrible and catastrophic idea so I'm glad they actually never released DB cropped because they'd need to do it selectively and for such a niche series they'd never bother to do so.

Release it in its original aspect ratio as it was originally intended.

[Valerius Dover]

I'd rather have good acting/voices over "consistency of voice cast". Seriously will one film not having Schemmel's nasally voice or Sabat's chain-smoking biker voice ruin the franchise for everyone? Plus most people grew up with Ocean's dub for the first 3 movies so they hold more nostalgia for it rather than FUNi's second-rate redub.

That's just one preference. There are plenty of people, myself included, who never saw the older dub in any form. I would certainly prefer to have a consistent voice cast. And as long as everything's uncut, I don't see what the problem is.

[TheBlackPaladin]

The way I see it, the English dubs of the Dragon Ball animes (movies included) didn't "suddenly" become good with Kai. It was a gradual progression. I think it strikes some fans of the Japanese version as a sudden shift in quality because the dub left such a bad taste in their mouths that they didn't care to keep up with it much, instead focusing on their preferred version, the original Japanese version.

Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course. However, I bring it up only as a way of noting that the dubs of the movies did get better--on both the writing and the acting fronts--as time went on. By the time FUNimation got around to re-dubbing the first three movies, I'd say the acting was just as good if not better than the Ocean dubs of those movies. I still give the edge to the Ocean dub because they had slightly better scripts, but just judging the acting alone, FUNimation's cast was on par with--if not better than--the Ocean cast by that point.

As for why the scripts varried in quality...it has kind of been answered already, but the most basic answer is that people who actually cared about creating a faithful adaptation of the Japanese product gained more and more creative input as time went on (and other people who weren't quite as concerned with that--like Barry Watson--eventually left the project altogether). Chris Sabat's efforts in particular are commendable. It seems like the more creative control he's given for a Dragon Ball dub, the better the final product usually is.

[Attitudefan]

I'd rather have good acting/voices over "consistency of voice cast". Seriously will one film not having Schemmel's nasally voice or Sabat's chain-smoking biker voice ruin the franchise for everyone? Plus most people grew up with Ocean's dub for the first 3 movies so they hold more nostalgia for it rather than FUNi's second-rate redub.

That's just one preference. There are plenty of people, myself included, who never saw the older dub in any form. I would certainly prefer to have a consistent voice cast. And as long as everything's uncut, I don't see what the problem is.

The problem is that you are getting a second rate dub. The redub for the first three movies were intended to replace the Japanese music, and the acting left something to be desired since it seemed rushed. I was conned in getting it since I thought their movie 3 pack in 2005 was with their original cast. The shock on my fave to hear those voices.... man.

It doesn't help that the voices in the film's, mostly with the villains, we're cheap knockoffs of the original English cast.

[El Diabeetus]

I'd rather have good acting/voices over "consistency of voice cast". Seriously will one film not having Schemmel's nasally voice or Sabat's chain-smoking biker voice ruin the franchise for everyone? Plus most people grew up with Ocean's dub for the first 3 movies so they hold more nostalgia for it rather than FUNi's second-rate redub.

That's just one preference. There are plenty of people, myself included, who never saw the older dub in any form. I would certainly prefer to have a consistent voice cast. And as long as everything's uncut, I don't see what the problem is.

The problem is that you are getting a second rate dub. The redub for the first three movies were intended to replace the Japanese music, and the acting left something to be desired since it seemed rushed. I was conned in getting it since I thought their movie 3 pack in 2005 was with their original cast. The shock on my fave to hear those voices.... man.

It doesn't help that the voices in the film's, mostly with the villains, we're cheap knockoffs of the original English cast.

For Movie 3, I still would've liked to have seen Schemmel do Tullece, or any English dub have them do the 'Evil Goku' voice.

[ABED]

The problem is that you are getting a second rate dub. The redub for the first three movies were intended to replace the Japanese music, and the acting left something to be desired since it seemed rushed. I was conned in getting it since I thought their movie 3 pack in 2005 was with their original cast. The shock on my fave to hear those voices.... man.

You weren't conned, they didn't sell it as anything other than what it was.

Plus most people grew up with Ocean's dub for the first 3 movies so they hold more nostalgia for it rather than FUNi's second-rate redub.

I'm not so sure that's true anymore.

Finally, the redub wasn't second rate. I could've done without them reusing old scripts, but the actors were much better by then.