Dragon Ball Split Timeline Theory

[Zephyr]

I'm revisiting and building upon the idea I had in this thread a while back: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... =6&t=22822

My second visual attempt at detailing all of the different timelines/continuities that must exist for Universe 7, based on my attempts to reconcile the plethora of plotholes and continuity errors that are created by things like the Bardock TV Special, Dragon Ball Minus, Jaco, Battle of Gods, GT, DBO, and the Z Movies trying to coexist, by means of deducing which events are necessary for all of them to occur inside of their own little vacuums. I'm still excluding the DB movies for now as I have not actually seen them and don't quite want to bother with them yet.

I've probably overlooked some things, and feedback is very appreciated, so by all means point out any errors you guys find so that I can figure out how to fix them.

I posted this in the In-Universe discussion because I think this would foster a great deal of In-Universe discussion. But if this belongs in the Fan Created Works section, feel free to move it.

Now onto the monster of an image:

Spoiler:

The Red Line:

Spoiler:

• The Bardock TV Special happens, as well as the flashback segments of DBZ Movies 5 and 8. The blast destroying Planet Vegeta flings Bardock into the past. The first episode of the anime happens. Between DB and Z, an alternative version of DBZ Movie 1 occurs, after which Kami uses the Dragon Balls to erase everyone's memories of what had transpired, for whatever reason. Later down the line, the Garlic Jr. arc happens, and everyone regains their memories, somehow.

• Eventually, Goku dies unexpectedly of a heart virus. Gero's Androids appear out of nowhere and kill all of the heroes except for Gohan. #17 and #18 run amok for quite some time. Babidi finds Buu's ball, but takes it elsewhere, due to there being hardly any life on the planet, let alone enough for Buu's revival. An alternative version of Movie 13 occurs, in which Tapion is killed before Hildegarn gets released, and Trunks receives his sword. The Trunks TV Special happens. Bulma eventually constructs a time machine, and Trunks uses it to travel back in time (the Yellow Line) to give Goku a vaccine for the heart virus, and to warn the heroes of the past of the Android threat.

• Trunks returns from the past (the Yellow Line) with a controller to shut down the Androids. Cell eventually shows up, kills Trunks, and uses his time machine to travel to the past (the Pink Line) so that he may absorb #17 and #18.

The Yellow Line:

Spoiler:

• Blueprints for the controller to shut down #17 and #18 are discovered in the wreckage of Gero's lab. The controller is built by Bulma, and #17 and #18 are defeated. Movie 7 happens. Trunks returns to his time with the controller (the Red Line), and uses it to defeat the Androids there, only to be killed by Cell.

The Purple Line:

Spoiler:

• Trunks returns from the past (the Pink Line) with RoSaT training under his belt, and he kills the Androids and Cell by his own hand.

The Pink Line:

Spoiler:

• The post-Namek Anime proper. Cell arriving from the future and going into hibernation, the Cell Games, DBZ Movie 9, the Buu arc, DBZ Movie 13, the Anime version of the JSAT, and finally Dragon Ball GT happen. In the far, far distant future, Miira is born, and travels back in time to create the Teal Line.

The Cyan Line:

Spoiler:

• In this timeline, Garlic Jr. made his move on world domination between the 23rd TB and the Saiyan arc. This leads to Gohan's power being known to all of the heroes before the Saiyan arc even happens. This drastically alters the Saiyan arc, in which Gohan is a more capable fighter. With a more confident and better trained Gohan, Goku does not get as badly wounded against Vegeta, and is able to embark to Namek with Bulma, Gohan, and Krillin.

• Not wanting to deal with Goku and Freeza at the same time, Vegeta opts for a truce with the heroes much sooner, so as to take out the bigger threat (Freeza). Piccolo is (possibly) wished back sooner, due to them being able to gather the Dragon Balls much more quickly. Freeza kills Vegeta, but is himself killed before ever getting the chance to transform, through everyone's combined efforts (with a Taiyoken + Kienzan combo possibly playing a part). The dead heroes are brought back in whatever is the most convenient combination of the two Dragon Ball sets.

• DBZ Movies 2, 3, and 4 follow from this.

The Green Line:

Spoiler:

• The timeline where the Coola movies, Movies 5 and 6, occur exactly as depicted. The only way for Movie 5 to happen as depicted would be if Goku were to not stay in space long enough to master transforming into a Super Saiyan at will. When Coola showed up, he couldn't just transform, it had to be triggered. The way the fight went lead to Coola being blasted into the sun.

• In order for Goku to stay in space longer, something must have caused a split prior to Trunks' arrival, and the only one who could do that is Cell. He must have done something differently from what he did in the Pink line in order for this to occur. Maybe he caused a butterfly effect to where Yardrat got destroyed, somehow, forcing Goku to just come home earlier? Not saying this had to have happened, but something strange must have occurred nonetheless.

• Regardless, Trunks later comes back in time in this timeline, and warns of the Androids. Coola later arrives, and Movie 5 happens. After a struggle, he's blasted into the sun. Seeing how helpless they were against a random invader who is supposed to be drastically inferior to the Androids, Piccolo and Kami agree to fuse in order to give them an extra edge. Piccolo here isn't as strong as he is in the main timeline, because he has less training with SSj Goku under his belt at the time of his fusion with Kami. This prompts bringing Dende to Earth to be the new Kami. The Big Gete Star nabs Coola, and Movie 6 happens.

• I assume that in all of the other timelines (where Goku learned to become a Super Saiyan at will), Coola still showed up in some capacity, but was more promptly and more fully destroyed. Due to the difference in Goku and Coola's fight in timelines where Goku could become Super Saiyan right off the bat, Coola wouldn't be present for the Big Gete Star to assimilate, causing a butterfly effect where it never went to Namek.

The Blue Line:

Spoiler:

• What I refer to as the "Vegeta doesn't ruin everyone's plans" timeline. This one diverges because Vegeta defeats Cell instead of allowing him to become perfect. Cell survives and escapes anyway, though. Goku and Gohan leave the RoSaT early.

• After a short break, DBZ Movie 8 occurs. It wouldn't occur in timelines where Cell had achieved perfection, as Paragus would have been too wary to meddle with that tier of power. After Movie 8, an altered Plan to Eradicate the [Super] Saiyans happens. Namely, Slug and Tullece can't really be present. Other than that though, it would make enough sense. It would follow Movie 8, as Goku makes reference to Broly.

• Eventually, Cell manages to sneak up on #18 and absorb her, achieving perfection. As usual, he announces the Cell Games, gives the heroes 10 days to prepare (which allows Goku and Gohan to finish their training), and leads to Gohan reaching SSj2 and Goku sacrificing himself. After the major timeskip, during the training for the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai, Broly rears his ugly mug again, only to get defeated. Again.

• 25th Tenkaichi Budokai occurs as normal, with the heroes leaving to go and confront Babidi. Only in this timeline, Vegeta keeps his cool. They swiftly and easily wipe out Babidi and his henchmen, and effectively prevent Buu's revival. Goku's day eventually runs out and he returns to the afterlife (maybe he and Vegeta had their own little fight somewhere, maybe not). With no Buu crisis, things occur as normal after the Budokai, with #18 desiring her payment from Mr. Satan. Movie 11 occurs.

The Grey Line:

Spoiler:

• The timeline where Buu was defeated prior to Goku and Vegeta needing to come back and save the day. Be it SSj3 Goku, Gotenks, or Ultimate Gohan. Point is, Goku and Vegeta stay dead. The kids know fusion. Movie 12 can occur. Ultimate Gohan being the one to finish Buu off also makes sense of "base"-looking Gohan one-shotting Freeza, for those who don't think base Saiyans ever surpassed Freeza.

The Teal Line:

Spoiler:

• The Dragon Ball Online timeline. Miira comes from the future, and causes a butterfly effect where GT never happens. All of the stuff from the DBO backstory occur. Obviously from here many other, smaller, splinter timelines would be created by the Time Breakers, but those are all too numerous and inconsequential to be listed here. Also I have a finite number of squares and colors to work with, and that would look messier than this already does.

These last 4 timelines are essentially mirror versions of the first 4 timelines, with some key differences.

The Brown Line:

Spoiler:

• Bardock arrives in the past. Episode of Bardock happens. A butterfly effect follows, leading to Dragon Ball Minus. Jaco the Galactic Patrolman occurs. The first chapter of the manga happens.

• Eventually, Goku dies unexpectedly of a heart virus. Gero's Androids appear out of nowhere and kill all of the heroes except for Gohan. #17 and #18 run amok for quite some time. Babidi finds Buu's ball, but takes it elsewhere, due to there being hardly any life on the planet, let alone enough for Buu's revival. An alternative version of Movie 13 occurs, in which Tapion is killed before Hildegarn gets released, and Trunks receives his sword. Trunks: The Story happens. Bulma eventually constructs a time machine, and Trunks uses it to travel back in time (the Lime Green Line) to give Goku a vaccine for the heart virus, and to warn the heroes of the past of the Android threat.

• Trunks returns from the past (the Lime Green Line) with a controller to shut down the Androids. Cell eventually shows up, kills Trunks, and uses his time machine to travel to the past (the Orange Line) so that he may absorb #17 and #18.

Note: I incorporated Movie 13 into this manga continuity because it serves as an explanation for a key item in the manga continuity: Trunks' Sword.

The Lime Green Line:

Spoiler:

• Blueprints for the controller to shut down #17 and #18 are discovered in the wreckage of Gero's lab. The controller is built by Bulma, and #17 and #18 are defeated. Trunks returns to his time with the controller (the Brown Line), and uses it to defeat the Androids there, only to be killed by Cell.

The Tan Line:

Spoiler:

• Trunks returns from the past (the Orange Line) with RoSaT training under his belt, and he kills the Androids and Cell by his own hand.

The Orange Line:

Spoiler:

• The post-Namek Manga proper. Cell arriving from the future and going into hibernation, the Cell Games, the Buu arc, the Manga version of the JSAT, and finally Battle of Gods happen.

I know I used the terms "occur", "happen", and "butterfly effect" far too frequently.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

I guess you can place him wherever you want, but based on the facts, Miira shouldn't be born from the GT timeline. They didn't have the rights to the anime at all, so he would have been created with the intention of having him born in a manga based timeline, just like the game. Most logically either the Main or Trunks manga timelines, where he would have stolen the Time Passport from the Kaiojikan and traveled back to the past.

Two notes about this:
1.) Time Travel with the Time Passport doesn't seem to cause a divergence. This could tie in with Jaco the Galactic Patrolman, with the reveal that Time Travel is against Galactic Law. Probably because you end up filling the limited amount of space in the Time Storage Vault by splitting the timelines without the Time Passport.

2.) The Kaiojikan is noted as talking with a couple different characters at different points in history in different timelines, all about the issues with Miira. Seems like it's just one character and not multiple versions of him in alternate timelines that watch over all the history of Universe 7 (as noted in DBO and quasi referenced by the description of the Time Storage Vault for Xenoverse --maybe, if it's borrowing the basics from DBO), so it would make sense if his realm existed outside the normal flow of time. So however Miira got to him and then proceeded to leave with the Time Passport, it's most likely that he wouldn't have created alternate timelines once he left and started invading the past for his plan, only his Time Breakers would when they are ordered to cause chaos and split the timelines.

PS. Is there a reason the spoilered text is so small? I can't really read it.

[Zephyr]

based on the facts, Miira shouldn't be born from the GT timeline. They didn't have the rights to the anime at all, so he would have been created with the intention of having him born in a manga based timeline, just like the game.

I'm aware that they only had the rights to the manga, but I seem to remember the game having a mission where you travel to the past where Goku arrives on Earth as a baby, which wouldn't have happened in the Manga universe, in light of DB-. Am I mis-remembering?

Time Travel with the Time Passport doesn't seem to cause a divergence.

I wasn't aware of that. Good to know.

So however Miira got to him and then proceeded to leave with the Time Passport, it's most likely that he wouldn't have created alternate timelines once he left and started invading the past for his plan

So whichever timeline he comes from, would there be a grandfather paradox of sorts present? If he's not creating a new timeline, then he's simply "revising" the past of his own, and since it doesn't consequently make him not exist, it must still lead to his creation, regardless of the outcome.

Or, is there another order of events, outside of this dimension of timeline splits, in which see the original timeline, Miira being born, him modifying that timeline, and the timeline eventually being fixed (if the game had continued, I'm assuming)?

Also I had made the text one size smaller in some of the spoiler tabs because of how much text there was. But I've upped the size so it can be read more easily.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

I'm aware that they only had the rights to the manga, but I seem to remember the game having a mission where you travel to the past where Goku arrives on Earth as a baby, which wouldn't have happened in the Manga universe, in light of DB-. Am I mis-remembering?

No, you're right. The game mission does have Goku sent to Earth as a baby, but I think that's a relatively minor problem compared to the other inconsistencies that would spawn from having DBO's timeline be created from the anime's (like villains keeping their body). So if you're only splitting the timeline between Z and GT, you're going to have those different sets of universe rules and other contradictory filler bits.

While it may not be easy, I guess I would advise finding a way to tie Miira to one of the manga timelines and then finding a reason for it to split somewhere around Goku's birth? So that he could stay in an incubator pod in and Freeza delayed at destroying planet Vegeta for DB-, but get shipped out early with the planet's ealrier destruction for DBO?

So whichever timeline he comes from, would there be a grandfather paradox of sorts present? If he's not creating a new timeline, then he's simply "revising" the past of his own, and since it doesn't consequently make him not exist, it must still lead to his creation, regardless of the outcome.

Or, is there another order of events, outside of this dimension of timeline splits, in which see the original timeline, Miira being born, him modifying that timeline, and the timeline eventually being fixed (if the game had continued, I'm assuming)?

I honestly can't say. The Dragon Ball timelines were already hard to figure out with just the 3-4 we had to deal with in the Cell Arc (i've seen many users try in this sub forum), but this just takes things to a whole new level.

We don't have any entries on Miira that explain exactly where he's from. They all just say that he's a future Earthling and that he's apparently been reconfigured into some sort of artificial super being. I guess the easiest assumption to make for now if we want to avoid such a paradox would be to say that when Miira traveled back to the DBO era, he jumped to the main timeline from whatever one he's from specifically to prevent his own demise from even being a possibility? We also know next to nothing about the Time Pasport either. It is possible that it could allow the user/wielder to not only go to the past of their own timeline without causing the split, but that it grants them the ability to go anywhere in the histories that are stored in the vault.

This is why I'm hoping that Xenoverse has more ties with the DBO lore, even if it isn't directly connected to the story. The Time Passport would be a great bit to cover along with the Time Storage Vault.

[Low Tone G]

TheDevilsCorpse wrote:
Time Travel with the Time Passport doesn't seem to cause a divergence.

I wasn't aware of that. Good to know.

So there is a Time Passport? So that was introduced in DBO?

[Zephyr]

I guess the easiest assumption to make for now if we want to avoid such a paradox would be to say that when Miira traveled back to the DBO era, he jumped to the main timeline from whatever one he's from specifically to prevent his own demise from even being a possibility? We also know next to nothing about the Time Pasport either. It is possible that it could allow the user/wielder to not only go to the past of their own timeline without causing the split, but that it grants them the ability to go anywhere in the histories that are stored in the vault.

I think that would be the easiest way to reconcile that. Miira is from Trunks' future (which explains why a time traveling Trunks is the one spearheading the assault against him), and he travels to the manga timeline without causing a split. Using the Time Passport, he was able to transport the Time Breakers to other timelines, further grabbing the attention of the higher ups. Does that contradict anything?

This is why I'm hoping that Xenoverse has more ties with the DBO lore, even if it isn't directly connected to the story. The Time Passport would be a great bit to cover along with the Time Storage Vault.

Funny that you say that, and then today DBO's character creation essentially gets revealed to be in it.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

So there is a Time Passport? So that was introduced in DBO?

Not explicitly in the game itself to my knowledge, but yes, it's a concept DBO introduced. It's mentioned that Miira stole it from the Kaiojikan in the guide books, but we don't actually know what it is, what it looks like or what it actually does other than apparently allowing time travel without causing splits.

I think that would be the easiest way to reconcile that. Miira is from Trunks' future (which explains why a time traveling Trunks is the one spearheading the assault against him), and he travels to the manga timeline without causing a split. Using the Time Passport, he was able to transport the Time Breakers to other timelines, further grabbing the attention of the higher ups. Does that contradict anything?

Well, Trunks tracks the Time Breakers by detecting the timeline anomalies/splits. So I think it's implied that Miira uses the device for himself to remain undetected. He may use it to move some of his troops for actual strategic missions (like the invasion and destruction of New Namek), but for the quests in the game, where part of the point is causing chaos to unravel time, the minions just use regular time machines so they can split things and fill the vault.

Also, it's a good reason for Trunks to be in charge of opposing Miira, but we know he only has the job because he's on probation. The Kaiojikan gave him the opportunity to stop Miira's forces or be punished for breaking the law and traveling through time.

Funny that you say that, and then today DBO's character creation essentially gets revealed to be in it.

I know, right? I wasn't expecting news till at least the 21st via V-Jump. Even then I was only expecting Saiyan customization (and maybe other races to be revealed later if they were ambitious).

Seriously Bandai Namco and Dimps, keep the DBO ties coming. There was a lot of missing info from DBO, so the more you guys bring to light , the better.

[Zephyr]

Alright TheDevilsCorpse, I've worked out two potential scenarios:

A: There could be a point of divergence from the Brown Line (not one caused by time travel, just an alternate take on the events similar to the Cyan line) during the Saiyan-Tsufru conflict, wherein a Tsufru scientist escapes. He then comes back to the planet later on, somehow causing Planet Vegeta to be blown up and Goku shipped to Earth earlier (ala Bardock TV Special). Goku is a baby when he arrives on Earth. Things occur as in most major timeline branches, complete with a Third Tree of the Trunks-Cell-Main timelines. In the "Main" timeline of this Tree, and only in this exact timeline, Miira is born in the future. All of his activity is excluded to this Third Tree, and the Future Trunks from the Third Tree is the Time Patrol one.

B: Miira is born in Age 2000, in the Orange Line. He travels into the past of that line, and not wishing to compromise his own existence, he intentionally creates a new timeline (him being able to choose to do this wouldn't contradict anything, would it?). His presence in the past causes things to go more-so how they did in the Bardock TV Special, where Planet Vegeta is destroyed and Goku is shipped to Earth while he's a baby and not a toddler. This Bardock is then taken by Miira during the planet's destruction. He then moves forward in time, or waits, for the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai to pass, and he begins screwing history up.

Any other suggestions you might have?

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Hmm, a couple of further notes:

A1.) I'm not entirely certain which of the timelines here is supposed to be Trunks', but Time Patrol Trunks is stated to be the one from the manga's Cell Games. So that needs to work out (if it doesn't already).

A2.) As you noted in B, Miira goes back and saves Bardock. Bardock is angry at Miira for controlling him, but also says he should be grateful that he saved him from Freeza. So either Miira goes to a different timeline when he saves him, or planet Vegeta still needs to be blown up by Freeza. Due to the speeches he gives about his son, my guess would be that it's not intended to be the first option. This is only speculation on my part, but I think they want us to care about that bond and intend DBO's Bardock to be the father of the Goku we follow in the manga. Trunks also isn't aware of the trip to save Bardock or who he is, so he didn't go back to stop Miira on that trip. Thus it looks like Miira used the stolen passport for it.

2.) Miira choosing to create a new timeline by not using the passport shouldn't contradict anything, as long as it was before Trunks arrives to take up the patrol job. Otherwise Trunks would detect the split and follow him to the past to try and fix whatever was altered. I definitely think Miira should jump back to the DBO Era instead of sticking around though, as that's a long time to sit around and not snag Goku's DNA. Final tiny tidbit, 'm pretty sure the AGE 2000 stuff comes from the not so great first round translations when people were only using Google? Miira is mentioned as being an Earthling from the future, but I don't remember any date ever being given.

[Low Tone G]

Fine attempt to make the whole DB universe(more or less) coexist. But I have some notes.

1.I do not think EoB with the Jaco manga, the DB Minus and the DB manga's first part are in the same timeline.
2. You made the DB Minus and the Bardock Anime Special to take place in the same year, if I see it correctly. But they did not happen in the same year, there's a 3 years gap.
3. You made Trunks' timeline to be shared with the first part of the manga. But I see the whole manga a single timeline containing DB Minus, the entire manga, the manga version of JATS and B.O.G.
4. I think EoB's present is another timeline, and EoB's past a second timeline, till Toriyama accept it to be a part of his story.

[Zephyr]

Final tiny tidbit, 'm pretty sure the AGE 2000 stuff comes from the not so great first round translations when people were only using Google? Miira is mentioned as being an Earthling from the future, but I don't remember any date ever being given.

Yeah, I admittedly resorted to the Dragon Ball Wikia for that, since I couldn't find anything else that had a solid profile for Miira. I thought they might have shaped up a bit, but seems that's not the case.

1.I do not think EoB with the Jaco manga, the DB Minus and the DB manga's first part are in the same timeline.
2. You made the DB Minus and the Bardock Anime Special to take place in the same year, if I see it correctly. But they did not happen in the same year, there's a 3 years gap.
3. You made Trunks' timeline to be shared with the first part of the manga. But I see the whole manga a single timeline containing DB Minus, the entire manga, the manga version of JATS and B.O.G.

Since time travel in DB generally creates a new timeline, Bardock's blast to the past would have to create a new one. Since that timeline's yet to be elaborated on further, I'm using it as the easy fix to explain the problems of the Bardock TV Special and Dragon Ball Minus. Regarding the BTVS and DB-'s timeline placement, I'll fix that in the nxt version of the image. I have Trunks' timeline as the original extension of the manga up until Freeza's attack on Earth, as that's what it's explained to be.

[DragonBallLove]

Nice work! I always wanted to get a grip on these matters

I would like to know where you would place the Dragon Ball Heroes (the game proper and Victory Mission/Charisma Mission) and Shin Budokai Another Road (PSP) stories.

And you must add the three Dragonball movies as a new timeline, it's not a big deal!!! They are a unique universe, not messing with the others.

Also, are you going to update your first post with the updates your idea exchange with TheDevilsCorpse brought forth? I'd very much like to see the timeline updated with all that Miira thing

Please don't let this thread fall in oblivion!

[Zephyr]

I got kind of burnt out on thinking about this stuff. It happens. The spark will return, and when it does, I'll do more work on it and make a new thread. Right now there's too much new stuff coming out (FnF, XV, etc), and I want to see exactly how they play out. I need to think more about DBO and it's special breed of time travel, and now XV seems to be making that more complicated than it already was.

I'm sure the 3 DB movies would be a simple task, but I'd prefer to see them for myself first. I've not played either of the Shin Budokai games, so I'd need to have a better grasp on their stories first.

As for DB Heroes, that seems to take place in a universe where DB is entirely a work of fiction, so that seemed like a simple enough thing to exclude entirely. Though I suppose I could always have that split off in a timeline from the real world or something?

[TheDevilsCorpse]

I don't know about the "story" modes in the 3DS games, but the arcade version of Heroes really doesn't have any sort of story. The best you get is having missions with a somewhat coherent progression of events in terms of enemies, but that doesn't stop you from using 5 Saibaimen as your team in every mission. So there's no real point in trying to add it in anywhere.

Toyotaro's Victory Mission manga would be a different story though. Characters mention that Dragon Balls existed in the past and all that, so it takes place in the distant future after GT has ended. Most likely after the GT TV Special at least.

[Zephyr]

I always thought of the Arcade Version as progressing through the little cutscenes we see, most of which seem to defy any conventional in-universe possibilities.

How liberally does Toyotaro's manga incorporate material from the series? Like, does it have stuff from various at-first-glance incompatible continuities just seamlessly coexisting? Is there a possibility that it just takes place in a world where Dragon Balls once existed, and that inspired the creation of the fictional Dragon Ball world (on which the game seen in the manga is later based)? Or is it explicitly stated to be in GT's future?

[DragonBallLove]

I got kind of burnt out on thinking about this stuff. It happens. The spark will return, and when it does, I'll do more work on it and make a new thread.

Please take your time, you deserve it. I know about burn outs very well, so please, think on yourself first. I'll try to get a good grasp at the timelines issues, its one of the most questioning matters for me as a DB fan.

I've not played either of the Shin Budokai games, so I'd need to have a better grasp on their stories first.

I can try to get you a summary (altough I recommend to play the one I mentioned, if you dont have access to a PSP you can always play the emulator version).

As for DB Heroes, that seems to take place in a universe where DB is entirely a work of fiction, so that seemed like a simple enough thing to exclude entirely. Though I suppose I could always have that split off in a timeline from the real world or something?

I always thought of the Arcade Version as progressing through the little cutscenes we see, most of which seem to defy any conventional in-universe possibilities.

That would be the game proper, a "real world" universe, akin (I guess) to that new disc game (I forgot the name). But the manga Victory Mission (and its spin off, Charisma Mission) seems to be in a world where at least Capsule Corp and some Toriyama characters from the Dragon World are real. There is no apparent contradiction between it and GT's future, as TheDevilsCorpse remarked, but it's not explicitly placed in such continuity.



One note, about baby Goku on DBO: DBO is, storywise, based solely in the manga. But artistically, that Time Leap mission where you found baby Goku un his capsule is based on the anime, as it was the only visual reference THEN; at the time the game was made, Dragon Ball Minus was non-existant, we should remember that. Minus comes as a retcon (kid Goku instead of baby Goku) to an already established product on the manga continuity (Dragon Ball Online). The best way is to simply ignore this Time Leap quest, or suposse the canon version of the aforementioned quest have a kid armored Goku instead of a baby one. Simple matter resolved.
If you still want to converge both, you can always suposse Miira "broke" the manga timeline, rewriting that episode and making Goku arrive (for whatever reasons) early... Curiosely, that would be a watsonian (in-universe) fan retcon of an doylist (out-universe) official retcon.

Xenoverse seems to feature (AFAIK) a place where the broken Timelines are perserved (a trope seemly popular as of now, take in count DC's and Marvel's coming events, Convergence and Secret Wars respectively). Perhaps the Movies branches (whose branching you don't explain) are byproducts of Miira's attack??? He seems such a Continuity Deus Ex Machina, the guy!

One question I should ask you: may I translate the info to spanish (and obviously credit you as due) to post it on my DB Facebook fanpage? I'd like to edit it too, leaving Miira in a indefinite future and branching DBO from DB manga.

Thanks for everything and have a Happy New Year you both

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Charisma Mission isn't a spin-off of Victory Mission. It's just another manga based on Heroes. Anyway, the cameos in Victory Mission are just that, cameos. They're pretty meaningless and outright contradict some of the timeline placements we know for them, like Jaco and Tights. The manga still seems to be after GT though. Capsule Corp is in charge of at least part of the Heroes game, we have location's like Satan Mall, and I can't remember what thread it was in, but someone translated the text from one of the chapters after Note shows up and they discuss how Dragon Balls once existed in the past and something about the heroes back then too. There were also mentions of the arcade machine being some sort of time travel device, which is how Dr. Auto went back and gathered usable Dragon Balls...yet things are stll very virtual and card based in the game. Honestly pretty complicated to understand without proper translations. Julian would probably be better to ask about all this, unless Herms has access to the chapters as well (since he is the timeline guy).

One note, about baby Goku on DBO: DBO is, storywise, based solely in the manga. But artistically, that Time Leap mission where you found baby Goku un his capsule is based on the anime, as it was the only visual reference THEN; at the time the game was made, Dragon Ball Minus was non-existant, we should remember that. Minus comes as a retcon (kid Goku instead of baby Goku) to an already established product on the manga continuity (Dragon Ball Online). The best way is to simply ignore this Time Leap quest, or suposse the canon version of the aforementioned quest have a kid armored Goku instead of a baby one. Simple matter resolved.
If you still want to converge both, you can always suposse Miira "broke" the manga timeline, rewriting that episode and making Goku arrive (for whatever reasons) early... Curiosely, that would be a watsonian (in-universe) fan retcon of an doylist (out-universe) official retcon.

The anime may have honestly been used as some sort of inspiration for the quest, but it's just as easy to say that they could have based it off the few baby Goku panels we had in the manga since there's nothing all that anime related in the quest itself (other than stating the AGE as 737). With DBO dead though, no new material can really act as a retcon, including Jaco, since there is no one to officially acknowledge it. Both works were meant as supplemental pieces to the manga when created, but as things stand, neither were intended to coexist alongside each other. DBO obviously couldn't plan for Jaco, but Toriyama did go out of his way to contradict the previous information with Jaco and BOG. Also, don't forget that while the developers had the rights to the Dragon Ball manga,even though Jaco was written by Toriyama as part of Dragon Ball's universe, it is still technically it's own license. There's no guarantee that NTL would have gotten the rights to Jaco, even if it had existed when DBO was being developed,

So, while you can feel free to tweak and combine these things for fan use, the best course of action to any sort of official sense would be to just admit that Jaco and DB- are just in an entirely different manga continuity to the one that includes DBO.

[Logan]

I feel like the whole alternate universe idea is kind of a cop-out and it's used in fiction far too often as a crutch for issues of discontinuity. With the exception of Trunks's original timeline and the timeline he came into, the concept is never explored or mentioned within the manga and animation. At least, to my knowledge. I have no problem with the movies not fitting nicely into the show. In fact, I embrace it. The idea of a fluid Dragon Ball continuity seems appropriate. I'd compare it to reading different books depicting the same myth. One telling might have details and tangents that the other doesn't and can't have because it's telling doesn't leave room for consistency. Yet I still enjoy both depictions and I don't hurt my brain by trying to reconcile them.

Star Wars continuity is one thing. Dragon Ball is another type altogether.

EDIT: Let me clarify, Zephyr, that I am in no way criticizing your work. It's good stuff and you obviously put a lot of thought into it.

[Zephyr]

Perhaps the Movies branches (whose branching you don't explain) are byproducts of Miira's attack??? He seems such a Continuity Deus Ex Machina, the guy!

I was tempted to have the movies mostly be caused by their respective antagonists travelling back in time themselves so as to create a divergence. Miira may work, but DBO seems to stem from the manga, and the movies clearly stem from the anime continuity.

One question I should ask you: may I translate the info to spanish (and obviously credit you as due) to post it on my DB Facebook fanpage? I'd like to edit it too, leaving Miira in a indefinite future and branching DBO from DB manga.

Feel free, man.

Charisma Mission isn't a spin-off of Victory Mission. It's just another manga based on Heroes. Anyway, the cameos in Victory Mission are just that, cameos. They're pretty meaningless and outright contradict some of the timeline placements we know for them, like Jaco and Tights. The manga still seems to be after GT though. Capsule Corp is in charge of at least part of the Heroes game, we have location's like Satan Mall, and I can't remember what thread it was in, but someone translated the text from one of the chapters after Note shows up and they discuss how Dragon Balls once existed in the past and something about the heroes back then too. There were also mentions of the arcade machine being some sort of time travel device, which is how Dr. Auto went back and gathered usable Dragon Balls...yet things are stll very virtual and card based in the game.

I'm almost tempted to treat Heroes as the after effect of Time Patrol Trunks' eventual mending of Miira and Towa's time shenanigans, allowing all of the various continuities of the universe have characters pulled from them for the game inside of the manga.

So, while you can feel free to tweak and combine these things for fan use, the best course of action to any sort of official sense would be to just admit that Jaco and DB- are just in an entirely different manga continuity to the one that includes DBO.

That seems like a good course of action. Would you say that DBO and XV should be different smaller branches of that larger manga-stemming branch? Seems like they'd have to. XV seems especially complicated due to it having DBO, GT, and BoG material in it.

The idea of a fluid Dragon Ball continuity seems appropriate. I'd compare it to reading different books depicting the same myth. One telling might have details and tangents that the other doesn't and can't have because it's telling doesn't leave room for consistency.

That's a really cool way to look at it. I just get a kick out of doing this sort of thing.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

I'm almost tempted to treat Heroes as the after effect of Time Patrol Trunks' eventual mending of Miira and Towa's time shenanigans, allowing all of the various continuities of the universe have characters pulled from them for the game inside of the manga.

Yeah, I don't really know how to actually handle it for something like this. It's perfectly fine on its own, but trying to apply it as part of a timeline theory where it has to interact with all sorts of other things makes it very complicated when it also includes the what-if content, Jaco and Neko Majin material. The game's all over the place.

That seems like a good course of action. Would you say that DBO and XV should be different smaller branches of that larger manga-stemming branch? Seems like they'd have to. XV seems especially complicated due to it having DBO, GT, and BoG material in it.

As things stand right now, while based on similar material, DBO and DBXV are very different beasts. Especially in that we don't know if all the excess Online timeline material applies to Xenoverse, and that the latter takes place in AGE 850 instead of AGE 1000.

What exactly should be done with Xenoverse though? I have no idea yet. It's hard to say without having the full story to see how they handle everything. So far they've stated GT characters are in the game, but don't apply to the story mode. So are they even important to consider? How about Jaco's inclusion, or the few movie characters? With the information we currently have, it seems as though the game could be a branch from the b manga or anime...but that Broli story achievement has me wary for the time being. If Broli isn't an separate bonus portion, but more like an epilogue, then it would limit things to just the anime (if other material doesn't already).