The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Eternal Super Saiyan]

Training doesn't determine power, plot does.

In the Namek Saga that was actually TRUE! Just ask someone to nearly kill you, get healed by Dende and suddenly your power level multiplies 10x.

[singsing]

There's no way Goku grew THAT much stronger through regular, run-of-the-mill training on Earth in 10 years. He had specialized training in the afterlife for 7 years and he still didn't even get 2x stronger IMO. And I'd doubt he used the ROSAT for his remaining year.

Training doesn't determine power, plot does. Goku fought on par with enraged Oob, who Goku said was exactly what he expected (he was expecting Kid Boo's reincarnation)

Plot isn't exactly an in-universe reason. Goku stated that they were pretty much at their limits during the Cell Saga, and the beginning of the Buu Saga proved that when they barely improved considering the extremely heavy amount of training that was done for 7 years in the afterlife.

Training doesn't determine power, plot does.

In the Namek Saga that was actually TRUE! Just ask someone to nearly kill you, get healed by Dende and suddenly you're power level multiplies 10x.

You are "multiplies 10x"?

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Plot isn't exactly an in-universe reason. Goku stated that they were pretty much at their limits during the Cell Saga, and the beginning of the Buu Saga proved that when they barely improved considering the extremely heavy amount of training that was done for 7 years in the afterlife.

Not everything has an in-universe explanation. Like Goten and Trunks being ridiculously strong, or Piccolo's bogus android arc training gains, or Gohan surpassing everyone in the rosat by a good margin but being weaker than everyone before it

Besides there's really no such thing as limits in Dragon Ball.

Goku also says him and Vegeta need to train so they'll be ready if something like Boo ever shows up again, hinting that they'll train hard.

[singsing]

Plot isn't exactly an in-universe reason. Goku stated that they were pretty much at their limits during the Cell Saga, and the beginning of the Buu Saga proved that when they barely improved considering the extremely heavy amount of training that was done for 7 years in the afterlife.

Not everything has an in-universe explanation. Like Goten and Trunks being ridiculously strong, or Piccolo's bogus android arc training gains, or Gohan surpassing everyone in the rosat by a good margin but being weaker than everyone before it

Besides there's really no such thing as limits in Dragon Ball.

Goku also says him and Vegeta need to train so they'll be ready if something like Boo ever shows up again, hinting that they'll train hard.

This is the in-universe discussion sub-forum.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

This is the in-universe discussion sub-forum.

Chapter: 516 (DBZ 322), P11.2-3
Context: after Polunga restores Goku’s stamina and he’s about to finish Boo off with the Genki-Dama
Goku: “I wanna fight you one-on-one…I’ll be waiting…And I’ll have gotten much, much better…See ya later!”

Chapter: 517 (DBZ 323), P5.4-5
Context: after Goku tells Dende to heal good Boo
Goku: “Well, it’s alright, ain’t it Vegeta? This Boo and Mister Satan both did well. If these two hadn’t been here, then we and everyone else would have been done in. Right?…And if worse comes to worse, we can just fight again. Let’s train so that this time for sure we won’t lose even if we go one-on-one.”

Chapter: 518 (DBZ 324), P1.3
Context: Bulma complains about how Goku never comes to visit
Bulma: “5 years! 5 years ago, when everyone was getting together, and even then you said you were training and didn’t come!”

There's also AT's statements iirc, saying Goku doesn't use SSJ2 and SSJ3 anymore, making his training more efficient, and something about his potential always growing.

[Angelus]

SSJ Future Gohan (Manga special, one armed) VS Android 14

King Chappa VS General Blue
[No paralysis]

Mercenary Tao VS 21st WMAT Jackie Chun, Goku, Krillin, and Yamcha
[No Kamehameha with enough power to destroy the moon]

Cell Games Krillin, Tien, Yamcha, and Chiaotzu (All with Kaioken x20) VS 5th Form Cooler
[Kaioken has no strain though. However, Tien's tribeam won't be able to obliterate Cooler, although it would still damage him]

former versus:

Spoiler:

Movie 10 SSJ Broly VS Full Power Perfect Cell
[No usage of Solar Flare or Special Beam Cannon]

Old King Piccolo VS Drum
[No ki blasts or flying]

Eastern Kaioshin VS ASSJ Future Trunks (Pre-2nd Day ROSAT)
[No paralysis magic. If things start to go bad for Future Trunks, he uses his sword.]

Bio-Broly VS SSJ Kid Goten and Trunks (Post-ROSAT)
[Could the kids win this rematch against their bully?]

EoZ SS3 Goku vs Super Boo (can he finally handle him?)
~Goku has no energy drain
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Also;
End of Z SS3 Goku, gets grade 3 on top of that (make it the same boost as Gr 3 SSJ), and launches a fully charged Kamehameha at Ultimate Gohan, can Gohan tank it?

No way. Not even if Goku became twice as powerful.

After the blast, Gohan just ends up saying "Dad, I need to go home. Videl gets mad if I go home this late"

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

SSJ Future Gohan (Manga special, one armed) VS Android 13

King Chappa VS General Blue
[No paralysis]

Mercenary Tao VS 21st WMAT Jackie Chun, Goku, Krillin, and Yamcha
[No Kamehameha with enough power to destroy the moon]

Cell Games Krillin, Tenshinhan, Yamcha, and Chiaotzu (All with Kaioken x20) VS Android 14
[Kaioken has no strain though. However, Tenshinhan's tribeam won't be able to obliterate 14, although it would still damage 14]

1. Android 13 > SS Goku [Movie 7] = SS Goku [Android arc] > SS Yardrat Goku > SS Future Trunks > SS Future Gohan
Android 13 stomps

2. dunno

3. dunno

4. Humans can pull it off, assuming they can handle a 20-fold kaio-ken, and Kuririn can use kienzan, and Yamcha doesn't get Yamcha'd

[Angelus]

So in your opinion, since 13 would be too much for SSJ Future Gohan, would Android 14 be something he could handle? 14 was easily destroyed by Future Trunks when he turned SSJ. Future Trunks has surpassed Future Gohan but 14 was simply disposed of.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

So in your opinion, since 13 would be too much for SSJ Future Gohan, would Android 14 be something he could handle? 14 was easily destroyed by Future Trunks when he turned SSJ. Future Trunks has surpassed Future Gohan but 14 was simply disposed of.

Maybe, that would be a good match. He could probably pull it off with difficulties.

[Angelus]

Ah. I edited the post then, for future readers. You were the only one who has replied to it so far anyways. You may want to edit yours as well.

[Darkron2151]

Chapter: 516 (DBZ 322), P11.2-3
Context: after Polunga restores Goku’s stamina and he’s about to finish Boo off with the Genki-Dama
Goku: “I wanna fight you one-on-one…I’ll be waiting…And I’ll have gotten much, much better…See ya later!”

Chapter: 517 (DBZ 323), P5.4-5
Context: after Goku tells Dende to heal good Boo
Goku: “Well, it’s alright, ain’t it Vegeta? This Boo and Mister Satan both did well. If these two hadn’t been here, then we and everyone else would have been done in. Right?…And if worse comes to worse, we can just fight again. Let’s train so that this time for sure we won’t lose even if we go one-on-one.”

Chapter: 518 (DBZ 324), P1.3
Context: Bulma complains about how Goku never comes to visit
Bulma: “5 years! 5 years ago, when everyone was getting together, and even then you said you were training and didn’t come!”

There's also AT's statements iirc, saying Goku doesn't use SSJ2 and SSJ3 anymore, making his training more efficient, and something about his potential always growing.

And all these manga quotes prove what exactly? That Goku will get better with training. "Better" isn't the same thing as "stronger". Not saying he can't get "stronger", but nothing states that it will be a whole lot, as shown plenty times in the series.

Goku fought on par with enraged Oob, who Goku said was exactly what he expected (he was expecting Kid Boo's reincarnation)

Yes, he was expecting Kid Buu's reincarnation. Not Buu's exact power, to which not only Uub wasn't stated to show, but also didn't have control of. Goku was looking for a human that was strong enough to fight his leveland he did. That's how he knew Uub was Buu's reincarnation.

[RandomGuy96]

2. Base Gotenks [post] vs. SS Goku [Cell Games]

Coming back to this: having re-read the scene, just to make sure, everyone seems awfully impressed by Gotenks' strength when he first shows up. Roshi, Krillin, Videl, and Piccolo all comment on his enormous, incredible power, and are seemingly blown away by it. I really, really don't see him getting that kind of reaction if he's actually way weaker than the green guy standing five feet away from him. I also don't see said green guy just letting him run off to fight Buu against direct orders if he could stop him. Not only would that make Piccolo an asshole for letting the two kids charge off to their deaths when he easily can stop it, it'd make him a suicidal asshole, since he acknowledges that:

A. Gotenks has zero chance against Buu in that state.

B. If Gotenks dies, everyone's fucked.

So, base Gotenks should be stronger than Piccolo, if nothing else.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Chapter: 516 (DBZ 322), P11.2-3
Context: after Polunga restores Goku’s stamina and he’s about to finish Boo off with the Genki-Dama
Goku: “I wanna fight you one-on-one…I’ll be waiting…And I’ll have gotten much, much better…See ya later!”

Chapter: 517 (DBZ 323), P5.4-5
Context: after Goku tells Dende to heal good Boo
Goku: “Well, it’s alright, ain’t it Vegeta? This Boo and Mister Satan both did well. If these two hadn’t been here, then we and everyone else would have been done in. Right?…And if worse comes to worse, we can just fight again. Let’s train so that this time for sure we won’t lose even if we go one-on-one.”

Chapter: 518 (DBZ 324), P1.3
Context: Bulma complains about how Goku never comes to visit
Bulma: “5 years! 5 years ago, when everyone was getting together, and even then you said you were training and didn’t come!”

There's also AT's statements iirc, saying Goku doesn't use SSJ2 and SSJ3 anymore, making his training more efficient, and something about his potential always growing.

And all these manga quotes prove what exactly? That Goku will get better with training. "Better" isn't the same thing as "stronger". Not saying he can't get "stronger", but nothing states that it will be a whole lot, as shown plenty times in the series.

What else would Goku be referring to instead of power? I guess it could be training to improve his Super Saiyan 3 Chi consumption, but it seems more likely he's referring to getting stronger. More often than that, the word "better" means stronger in this series. Vegeta says Gohan was far better as a kid when he changes into a Super Saiyan 2, which we know is a reference to his power. Android #16 says Vegeta is better than Cell at everything, Gohan agrees with Vegeta and says despite Freeza's power, they've also gotten better, etc. Goku's talking about getting stronger.

[Darkron2151]

What else would Goku be referring to instead of power? I guess it could be training to improve his Super Saiyan 3 Chi consumption, but it seems more likely he's referring to getting stronger. More often than that, the word "better" means stronger in this series. Vegeta says Gohan was far better as a kid when he changes into a Super Saiyan 2, which we know is a reference to his power. Android #16 says Vegeta is better than Cell at everything, Gohan agrees with Vegeta and says despite Freeza's power, they've also gotten better, etc. Goku's talking about getting stronger.

You're right about the better=stronger rule, but nothing says that he got multi-fold stronger (besides BOG) during that 10 year gap, and there's a lot of instances in the series that showed that gains, over time, aren't nearly as great as their Namek days.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Yeah, I see what you mean.

1) Android #13 would most likely win. I don't think Future Gohan is as strong as the Android arc Super Saiyans.
2) Probably Blue.
3) Tao dominated a Goku that was more powerful than he was at the 21st Budokai. I doubt the addition of those 3 would help.
4) Android #14 stomps.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

LSSJ Broly (Movie Eight) vs. Cell Games MSSJ Gohan

[SSJ God Gogeta]

LSSJ Broly (Movie vs. Cell Games MSSJ Gohan

Broly destroys him. Broly is the strongest there is in movie .

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

LSSJ Broly (Movie vs. Cell Games MSSJ Gohan

Broly destroys him. Broly is the strongest there is in movie .

Cell Games Z-fighters >>> Movie 8 Z-fighters

[SSJ God Gogeta]

LSSJ Broly (Movie vs. Cell Games MSSJ Gohan

Broly destroys him. Broly is the strongest there is in movie .

Cell Games Z-fighters >>> Movie 8 Z-fighters

Clearly you didn't know I was joking...

[Darkron2151]

LSSJ Broly (Movie Eight) vs. Cell Games MSSJ Gohan

I have this Broly around the same strength as Perfect Cell so....yeah....Broly wins this one rather easily.