The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

I see Goku trying to hit even base Super Boo kinda like someone trying to hit a brick wall

[Angelus]

Some evening matches to stir things up:

Base Kid Goten (Post-ROSAT) VS End of Z Tien with Kaioken x20
[Kaioken has no strain. No Ki attacks.]

Eros' Shadow Dragon VS Base Syn Shenron

Kami VS SSJ Goku Jr. and Vegeta Jr.

Post-Ultra Divine Water Goku VS End of Saiyuki Animes Goku (without his power limiter diadem or Nyoi-bo)

Nappa VS Paragus

former versus:

Spoiler:

Future Android 17 VS present Android 18

Ranfan VS Colonel Silver
[No stripping]

End of Z SSJ Trunks VS Cell Games MSSJ/FPSSJ Enraged Gohan

Yakon VS SSJ Future Trunks (Post 1st-day ROSAT)
[No light eating]

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Some evening matches to stir things up:

Base Kid Goten (Post-ROSAT) VS End of Z Tenshinhan with Kaioken x20
[Kaioken has no strain. No Ki attacks.]

Goten

Post-Ultra Divine Water Goku VS End of Saiyuki Animes Goku (without his power limiter diadem or Nyoi-bo)

wat

Nappa VS Paragus

Paragus

Future Android 17 VS present Android 18

Present 18

End of Z SSJ Trunks VS Cell Games MSSJ/FPSSJ Enraged Gohan

Gohan, but it won't be easy

Yakon VS SSJ Future Trunks (Post 1st-day ROSAT)

Might need 2nd Grade SSJ, might not

[SSJ God Gogeta]

• Goten
• Goku
• Paragus
• #18
• Gohan
• Trunks
• #18
• Silver
• Trunks

[Saiga]

I only put Evil Boo at about 2x SS3 Goku, and still think he'll never surpass Ultimate Gohan by just training. His gains during the seven years between Cell and Boo weren't that great, and it's only going to be worse after that.

[RandomGuy96]

EOZ Goku still considers Pure Buu to be a good fight and a potential loss.

[Saiga]

EOZ Goku still considers Pure Buu to be a good fight and a potential loss.

Also that, yeah.

Although if people are going to be going off the recent movies than I guess that might no longer apply in the end.

[Angelus]

Okay... there's not much going on here so here's a couple of matches:

Kibito Kai VS Bido, Bujin, and Transformed Bojack, Zangya, and Kogu with sword

23rd WMAT Chi Chi VS Crane Hermit
[No flying]

Pui Pui VS Cell Games Krllin, Tien, Yamcha, and Chiaotzu
[No Kienzan, Tribeams, or Chiaotzu paralysis/stomach ache technique/self-destructing]

Android #8 (bloodlusted) VS Spike the Devilman
[No devilmite beam]

Cell Jr. VS Post-1st day ROSAT SSJ Vegeta and Future Trunks
[If regular SSJ can't pull it off, they both turn ASSJ]

former matches:

Spoiler:

Base Kid Goten (Post-ROSAT) VS End of Z Tien with Kaioken x20
[Kaioken has no strain. No Ki attacks.]

Kami VS SSJ Goku Jr. and Vegeta Jr.

Nappa VS Paragus

Future Android 17 VS present Android 18

Ranfan VS Colonel Silver
[No stripping]

End of Z SSJ Trunks VS Cell Games MSSJ/FPSSJ Enraged Gohan

[Lord Beerus]

Okay... there's not much going on here so here's a couple of matches:

Kibito Kai VS Bido, Bujin, and Transformed Bojack, Zangya, and Kogu with sword

23rd WMAT Chi Chi VS Crane Hermit
[No flying]

Pui Pui VS Cell Games Krllin, Tenshinhan, Yamcha, and Chiaotzu
[No Kienzan, Tribeams, or Chiaotzu paralysis/stomach ache technique/self-destructing]

Android #8 (bloodlusted) VS Spike the Devilman
[No devilmite beam]

Cell Jr. VS Post-1st day ROSAT SSJ Vegeta and Future Trunks
[If regular SSJ can't pull it off, they both turn ASSJ]

former matches:

Spoiler:

Base Kid Goten (Post-ROSAT) VS End of Z Tenshinhan with Kaioken x20
[Kaioken has no strain. No Ki attacks.]

Kami VS SSJ Goku Jr. and Vegeta Jr.

Nappa VS Paragus

Future Android 17 VS present Android 18

Ranfan VS Colonel Silver
[No stripping]

End of Z SSJ Trunks VS Cell Games MSSJ/FPSSJ Enraged Gohan

- Kibito Kai
- Crane Hermit
- Krllin, Tenshinhan, Yamcha, and Chiaotzu
- Android #8
- Cell Jr
- Goten
- Goku Jr. and Vegeta Jr.
- Nappa
- Android 18
- Colonel Silver
- Gohan

[RandomGuy96]

Kibito Kai VS Bido, Bujin, and Transformed Bojack, Zangya, and Kogu with sword

23rd WMAT Chi Chi VS Crane Hermit
[No flying]

Pui Pui VS Cell Games Krllin, Tenshinhan, Yamcha, and Chiaotzu
[No Kienzan, Tribeams, or Chiaotzu paralysis/stomach ache technique/self-destructing]

Android #8 (bloodlusted) VS Spike the Devilman
[No devilmite beam]

Cell Jr. VS Post-1st day ROSAT SSJ Vegeta and Future Trunks
[If regular SSJ can't pull it off, they both turn ASSJ]

Kibitoshin. He seemed pretty confident after he first formed, indicating he's MASSIVELY stronger than Kaioshin, who is about on par with Cell Games Goku judging by Piccolo's comment and his performance against the Cell Jrs. I don't even think transformed Bojack is x2 stronger than Kaioshin/CG Goku, while Kibitoshin is well over twice as strong, so he's getting a beat down. The others may as well not even be there, since teaming up only really works when at least one member of the team is within rivaling range of the enemy.

No flying? I'd still probably hand it to the Crane Hermit. Their official power levels are 130 for Chi Chi and 120 for Crane Hermit. However, despite being slightly weaker, Crane Hermit is probably pretty skilled seeing as how he trained Tenshinhan and Chaozu, while Chi Chi can't even use ranged ki attacks.

Krillin solos. I see each of Babidi's minions as equaling one of the previous big bads- Dabra is Perfect Cell (in between SPC and PC), Yakon is final form Freeza (specifically "base"/70% Freeza), and Pui Pui is Saiyan arc Vegeta in his Oozaru form. So, 180,000, or thereabouts. I tend to assume that Krillin is at least in the hundreds of thousands by the end of Namek going off of Vegeta's comments, maybe 300,000 or so, so even he would absolutely wreck Pui Pui.

Why even bother specifying the Devilmite Beam can't be used? 8 is a machine AND apparently pure-hearted... anyway, Devilman wins. He simply has far better feats, i.e. lasting a while against post-Karin Goku, and being superior to everyone there except Goku and Gohan.

Cell Jr. This is such a stomp that it's not even funny. First of all, a heavily suppressed Cell made complete mincemeat of SSG2 Vegeta and SSG3 Trunks with no effort. Then, Vegeta powered up in the ROSAT, and said that he got stronger than Cell, not knowing that Cell was holding back. Finally, when he got the Cell Games, Cell of course turned out to be much stronger than he thought, to the point that Vegeta was just able to draw with the Juniors. SSG2 Vegeta <<< Initial Perfect Cell < MSS Vegeta = Cell Jr.

[Angelus]

So, RandomGuy96, how powerful do you think Kibito Kai is?

Chi Chi and Crane's official power level came from V-Jump or Daiz?

Oh I just didn't want to risk an off-shoot discussion about maybe the devilmite beam might work on #8 because #8 murdered General White. And wasn't Spike the Devilman a one-shot for post-Korin Goku? After Goku got serious, he kicked Spike through a wall. After, that's when Spike did his devilmite beams but to no avail.

Geez... their post-1st day and 2nd day ROSATs gap in power was that huge? A Cell Jr. is more powerful than initial appearance Perfect Cell.
Where did Vegeta say that he already surpassed initial appearance Perfect Cell? And was his context just boasting?

[RandomGuy96]

So, RandomGuy96, how powerful do you think Kibito Kai is?

Low SS2 tier. If he was stronger, he would have helped fight Majin Buu directly, and Elder Kaioshin wouldn't have heavily implied that he was weaker than Vegeta. If he was weaker, I don't think Kaioshin would get so hyped about his power-up, which was supposed to be big.

Chi Chi and Crane's official power level came from V-Jump or Daiz?

Weekly Jump, though I THINK Crane Hermit's might also be in the Daizenshuu.

Oh I just didn't want to risk an off-shoot discussion about maybe the devilmite beam might work on #8 because #8 murdered General White. And wasn't Spike the Devilman a one-shot for post-Korin Goku? After Goku got serious, he kicked Spike through a wall. After, that's when Spike did his devilmite beams but to no avail.

Teenage Goku murdered a shitload of people, and apparently he was still pure enough to not be affected. I don't think he was one-shot material. He took a beating before going down, and was still able to stand and fight even after that kick through the wall. As Goku showed earlier, he has no problem just one-shotting the fighters if he can.

Geez... their post-1st day and 2nd day ROSATs gap in power was that huge? A Cell Jr. is more powerful than initial appearance Perfect Cell.

According to Vegeta, yeah. He says that he'll be the one to finish off Cell, only to be shocked when Cell powers up to fight Goku. Then he fights evenly with a Cell Jr.

Where did Vegeta say that he already surpassed initial appearance Perfect Cell? And was his context just boasting?

Chapter: 395 (DBZ 201), P13.5
Context: after Goku says he’ll fight first Cell first
Vegeta: “Do what you want. Either way, I’ll be the one to finish this…”

[Angelus]

Low SS2 tier. If he was stronger, he would have helped fight Majin Buu directly, and Elder Kaioshin wouldn't have heavily implied that he was weaker than Vegeta. If he was weaker, I don't think Kaioshin would get so hyped about his power-up, which was supposed to be big.

So basically the weakest SSJ2? Much weaker than 25th WMAT SSJ2 Gohan?

Weekly Jump, though I THINK Crane Hermit's might also be in the Daizenshuu.

Uh oh... but that's the same one that has Popo at like 1030 but Kami at like 220.

Chapter: 395 (DBZ 201), P13.5
Context: after Goku says he’ll fight first Cell first
Vegeta: “Do what you want. Either way, I’ll be the one to finish this…”

But this is strange because Vegeta already felt Goku power up at Korin's tower, aside from the time Goku stepped out of the ROSAT. Vegeta should already know that this Goku was more powerful than initial appearance Perfect Cell.

[RandomGuy96]

But this is strange because Vegeta already felt Goku power up at Karin's tower, aside from the time Goku stepped out of the ROSAT. Vegeta should already know that this Goku was more powerful than initial appearance Perfect Cell.

He only felt 50% of Goku's power without realizing it was 50%.

Uh oh... but that's the same one that has Popo at like 1030 but Kami at like 220.

Yeah, and? I'm pretty sure that Kami is actually supposed to be/was meant to be an old Piccolo Daimao, and even if it wasn't, that's not technically contradictory since Kami could have gotten weaker since the 23rd Budokai. Popo, on the other hand, has been training the maggots. Considering how even Yajirobe surpassed Kami (and rose to 970, according to that same source) while sitting on his ass during said training, it's fair to say that Popo would get quite a bit stronger.

So basically the weakest SSJ2? Much weaker than Dabura or SPC?

I think he's right in between Dabra and SPC, but that's somewhat arbitrary of me. I just think it's a nice level for him to fit into. All we know as absolute facts are that he's much stronger than Kaioshin and weaker than SS2 Vegeta.

[Angelus]

He only felt 50% of Goku's power without realizing it was 50%.

But why was Vegeta so amazed at Goku's power then, even if he unknowingly felt only Goku's 50%, if Vegeta felt like his own power already surpassed initial appearance Perfect Cell?

Yeah, and? I'm pretty sure that Kami is actually supposed to be/was meant to be an old Piccolo Daimao, and even if it wasn't, that's not technically contradictory since Kami could have gotten weaker since the 23rd Budokai. Popo, on the other hand, has been training the maggots. Considering how even Yajirobe surpassed Kami (and rose to 970, according to that same source) while sitting on his ass during said training, it's fair to say that Popo would get quite a bit stronger.

Kami didn't train any of them?

I think he's right in between Dabra and SPC, but that's somewhat arbitrary of me. I just think it's a nice level for him to fit into. All we know as absolute facts are that he's much stronger than Kaioshin and weaker than SS2 Vegeta.

Ah, so Kibito Kai's right about 25th WMAT SSJ2 Gohan (no rage) level then, if not slightly weaker?

[RandomGuy96]

But why was Vegeta so amazed at Goku's power then, even if he unknowingly felt only Goku's 50%, if Vegeta felt like his own power already surpassed initial appearance Perfect Cell?

He sensed that power BEFORE he took a second ROSAT trip and surpassed 50% Goku and initial Cell.

Kami didn't train any of them?

I don't think he was involved in the physical aspect.

Ah, so Kibito Kai's right about 25th WMAT SSJ2 Gohan (no rage) level then, if not slightly weaker?

Well, SS2 Gohan was stronger than Dabra, so around that, IMO.

[Angelus]

He sensed that power BEFORE he took a second ROSAT trip and surpassed 50% Goku and initial Cell.

Ohhhh!

I don't think he was involved in the physical aspect.

Scumbag Kami. Sure, I'll train you Goku, so you could beat my evil twin's son. Doesn't train any of the humans for the Saiyans.

Well, SS2 Gohan was stronger than Dabra, so around that, IMO.

I still wonder why Elder Kai thought that someone in the same league as SSJ2 Vegeta, wouldn't be of any help with fighting Kid Buu. SSJ2 Vegeta got his ass handed to him quickly. Surely, someone a bit weaker than SSJ2 Gohan or Dabura would be of some use. Off topic, if I were Elder Kai and was hanging out with Kibito Kai the entire time after the Buu Saga, I could take some time to unlock Kibito Kai to regain some honor to the Kaioshins that were supposed to be the most powerful beings in the universe.

[Eternal Super Saiyan]

I still wonder why Elder Kai thought that someone in the same league as SSJ2 Vegeta, wouldn't be of any help with fighting Kid Buu. SSJ2 Vegeta got his ass handed to him quickly. Surely, someone a bit weaker than SSJ2 Gohan or Dabura would be of some use. Off topic, if I were Elder Kai and was hanging out with Kibito Kai the entire time after the Buu Saga, I could take some time to unlock Kibito Kai to regain some honor to the Kaioshins that were supposed to be the most powerful beings in the universe.

Well, considering someone 4x stronger than Vegeta was fighting evenly with Kid Buu, I doubt another character as strong as Vegeta would be of much help. He'd get in the way.

[Angelus]

Yeah but SSJ2 Vegeta and someone of the same league VS Kid Buu would be more effective than just Vegeta alone. It's not like it's a Vegeta and Android 17 VS Kid Buu fighting wherein 17 absolutely won't matter by the least even if he still had his self destruct device in him.

Ah whatever... old people. lol

[singsing]

Yeah but SSJ2 Vegeta and someone of the same league VS Kid Buu would be more effective than just Vegeta alone. It's not like it's a Vegeta and Android 17 VS Kid Buu fighting wherein 17 absolutely won't matter by the least even if he still had his self destruct device in him.

Ah whatever... old people. lol

No not really, either way Kid Buu would wreck them. Having another Vegeta show up is just another toy for Buu.