The Validity of the Daizenshuu

Olivier Hague · Post by **Olivier Hague** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:45 pm

Ack. You quoted me right before I edited my original post. ^_^;
So I'll just clarify that one point here: when I said ""Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega" was published by Square Enix (just like the Daizenshû were published by Shûeisha) but written by Studio BentStuff, just like all the other Ultimania and Kaitai Shinsho guides", I didn't mean that the Kaitai Shinsho guides were published by Square Enix, just that they were written by Studio BentStuff.

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 4:18 pm

Olivier Hague wrote:Ack. You quoted me right before I edited my original post. ^_^;
So I'll just clarify that one point here: when I said ""Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega" was published by Square Enix (just like the Daizenshû were published by Shûeisha) but written by Studio BentStuff, just like all the other Ultimania and Kaitai Shinsho guides", I didn't mean that the Kaitai Shinsho guides were published by Square Enix, just that they were written by Studio BentStuff.

Yeah, I noticed. I edited my post to try and take out the Kaitai Shinsho guides. I was only referring to the Ultimania Omega guide myself, as its the only one I own of those particular books.

-Corey

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:52 pm

Olivier Hague wrote:Yes, there are interviews and comments from the game's staff here and there.

Hmm? I don't have my copy of Ultimania Omega with me at the moment, but I'm pretty sure all the information is quoted from the creators. And I know for a fact that that's how the Reunion Files is, because I own that as well, and I've read it from front to back. Regardless of who published the books, every bit of information comes from direct quotes of the creators. So the statements "written by Studio BentStuff/SoftBank Creative" are false. They were simply the published by them.

So, once again, they are drastically different from the Daizenshuu. End of story.

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 11:32 pm

Chibi Mystic Gohan wrote:
Olivier Hague wrote:Yes, there are interviews and comments from the game's staff here and there.
So the statements "written by Studio BentStuff/SoftBank Creative" are false. They were simply the published by them.

I can verify that it states (on the spine at least, I'm a bit too lazy to grab the book and actually scan pages) that SE themselves published it, and it was 'edited' by Studio Bentstuff. I'm curious, who is the authoring of the Daizenshuu credited to, and is it 'written' by or 'edited' by them?

-Corey

Olivier Hague · Post by **Olivier Hague** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:25 am

Chibi Mystic Gohan wrote:I don't have my copy of Ultimania Omega with me at the moment, but I'm pretty sure all the information is quoted from the creators.

I have my copy right here, and I can assure you you're wrong. ^^;
There are quotes and interviews, but they're just a tiny fraction of the book's contents.

I know for a fact that that's how the Reunion Files is, because I own that as well, and I've read it from front to back. Regardless of who published the books, every bit of information comes from direct quotes of the creators

Again, sorry, but the book wasn't written by the creators themselves.
As you can see, the authoring is credited to "Entertainment Shoseki Henshûbu". You can see their other books here. "Melty Blood", "Xenosaga III", "Iris no Atelier", "KOF Maximum Impact 2", "Gyakuten Saiban", "Guilty Gear XX Slash"... Does it sound like they're Square Enix employees to you?

So the statements "written by Studio BentStuff/SoftBank Creative" are false. They were simply the published by them.

Sorry, but I'm afraid you simply don't know what you're talking about...

The Ultimania guide you're referring to, just like all current Ultimania guides, has been published by Square Enix and written by Studio BentStuff.
As for the Advent Children book you mentioned, it's been published by SoftBank Creative, and written by Entertainment Shoseki Henshûbu (a division of SoftBank Creative, as far as I can tell? anyway, they're guys who write about lots of other games that aren't Square Enix games).

So, once again, they are drastically different from the Daizenshuu.

Once again, they're not, on the contrary.
Like I said, you just provided a good example of an official guide that is pretty much as close to the source as can be, and thus considered extremely reliable (Ultimania)... but still isn't written by the game's staff (game creators generally don't actually write guides themselves as that's not their job... 'sounds familiar?).

MajinVejitaXV wrote:I'm curious, who is the authoring of the Daizenshuu credited to

I don't have my Daizenshû right here, so I can't tell you exactly... If someone could scan the credit page at the end of one of the volumes?
I would think their authoring is credited to something like "Shûkan Shônen Jump Henshûbu" (Shûeisha themselves, in other words), or perhaps Caramel Mama...

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:01 am

Sad to say, CMG, but they're right. I know because the guides have come up on other boards I got to and they receive the same reception there as the Daizenshuu do here. Offical but below the games/movie and not valid for use in discussions.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 1:51 pm

Oliver Hague wrote:Sorry, but I'm afraid you simply don't know what you're talking about...

http://softparadise2.free.fr/DSCN0687.JPG
http://softparadise2.free.fr/DSCN0688.JPG
http://softparadise2.free.fr/DSCN0689.JPG
http://softparadise2.free.fr/DSCN0690.JPG
http://softparadise2.free.fr/DSCN0691.JPG
http://softparadise2.free.fr/DSCN0692.JPG
http://softparadise2.free.fr/DSCN0693.JPG
http://softparadise2.free.fr/DSCN0694.JPG
http://softparadise2.free.fr/DSCN0695.JPG

Notice how all of the information is from either the game/movie staff, voice actors or CG artists? That's how it's different than the Daizenshuu. Am I the only one who actually owns the book...?
Although I'll concede the point that Ultimania Omega isn't the direct quotes of the creators like Reunion Files is, I would suspect that they had more to do with it than Toriyama did with the Daizenshuu. I suspect that by "written by Studio BentStuff/SoftBank" they mean they physically wrote the books based on Nomura's, Nojima's, Kitase's and everyone else's words.

Do you see a difference between the Daizenshuu now? Toriyama simply let whoever wrote them compile the information themselves, while at the very least the FFVII staff had involvment with the Ultimania Omega (and spent their time telling BentStuff all of the facts for the movie's "Reunion Files book).

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:55 pm

Chibi Mystic Gohan wrote:Am I the only one who actually owns the book...?

Apparently. I actually should snag a copy off Amazon, assuming it's still in print. Looks pretty cool.

-Corey

Olivier Hague · Post by **Olivier Hague** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:42 pm

Chibi Mystic Gohan wrote:Notice how all of the information is from either the game/movie staff, voice actors or CG artists?

Not all of it, but yeah, judging from your scans, most of it appears to be "Staff Notes", indeed.
Then again, there's not a lot of text overall (that looks more like an artbook). ^^;

Although I'll concede the point that Ultimania Omega isn't the direct quotes of the creators like Reunion Files is, I would suspect that they had more to do with it than Toriyama did with the Daizenshuu. I suspect that by "written by Studio BentStuff/SoftBank" they mean they physically wrote the books based on Nomura's, Nojima's, Kitase's and everyone else's words.

You suspect a lot of things. ^^;
And that would be a lot of Studio BentStuff writers simply to type two guys' words (only Nojima and Nomura are credited at the end of the book)...

Anyway, you can have a better idea of how these things work by reading the Studio BentStuff commentaries on their website, for example...

Do you see a difference between the Daizenshuu now? Toriyama simply let whoever wrote them compile the information themselves, while at the very least the FFVII staff had involvment with the Ultimania Omega

Toriyama was involved in the making of the Daizenshû. He provided comments, did interviews, and ended up credited as a supervisor, just like Nomura and Nojima were.

Virgil · Post by **Virgil** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:48 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
Virgil wrote:VegettoEX, when did you guys discussed the Daizenshuu in the Podcast ?
Episode #0041.

Thanks.

I've heard it, and I really liked the Podcast. You guys covered all the information regarding the Daizenshuu. However, perhaps I just missed, but I was fairly disappointed with the lack of opinion regarding the controversy surrounding Daizenshuu; mainly all the things that the fans have a tendecy to discredit. Interesting, nevertheless.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:59 pm

Virgil wrote:Thanks.

I've heard it, and I really liked the Podcast. You guys covered all the information regarding the Daizenshuu. However, perhaps I just missed, but I was fairly disappointed with the lack of opinion regarding the controversy surrounding Daizenshuu; mainly all the things that the fans have a tendecy to discredit. Interesting, nevertheless.

I guess I just don't find this discussion interesting enough to try and talk about it for twenty minutes

. This thread covers it all, for me ^_~.