Dragon Box vs Original Broadcast - The Audio

[Bananape]

I can't see Toei giving the go-ahead for this if they turned it down when it was offered directly to them. FUNimation would HAVE to go through Toei to use this, and right now, their approval on this is far from guaranteed. While it's awesome Sabat reached out to acquire this audio, I can't see it ever making it on an official release.

Plus, wasn't the entire series JUST released for the umpteenth on Blu-ray? Do you realize how big of a kick to the teeth it would be to everyone who bought the Blu-rays when FUNimation announces it's being released again... but with enhanced audio? I honestly feel that the company would receive a backlash for not holding out on the releases until the enhanced audio was released.

FUNimation can only re-release DBZ so many times before it gets unnecessary. It's awesome we the fans are helping give Sabat this audio but I can't see FUNimation getting the go ahead to use it or even the motive to release the series again.

[TheAldella]

Oh, it's so amusing when you consider how many times the series has actually been released completely...Three, if I recall. The singles were missing the entire beginning, the Level sets were cancelled, etc...Three times if I'm correct. One of which is out of print, two of which are terribly cropped. If the release finishes, I'll buy the damn thing.

[NinjaGoku]

So Toei might take the audio, even if they did they would not notify anyone if they were to use it, and the another release might not happen (unless it is profitable, in which case giving the audio helps). If the audio is not complete for episode, I doubt they will touch it, but surely they would appreciate it. Best you can do is approach them formally, offer them out of good will, see how they respond.

Then you have fans who will take the audio and willingly edit them into each episode for the ones who really care about stereo audio. If episodes with the new audio were all available right now do you think that would that deter Toei from using the audio? I don't think a business such as Toei has ever followed a fan's path, it would be below them. It's a tough decision.

[Mosaic]

You're assuming that FUNimation require explicit permission from Toei to use a fan's audio recording. I don't believe this is necessarily the case.

From what somebody who works for a (different) anime licensing company told me, as long as they have the rights to a certain version of the show, they don't necessarily need to ask for explicit permission to use a different audio (or video) source, as long as they don't use any extra content that they don't already have a licence to (like potentially episode previews).

Unless FUNImation has been granted some sort of special privilege, they would most likely need Toei's permission for pretty much anything. I've worked with one company and I've been told Toei has the final word on everything including subtitles, translations, packaging, cover art, extras, etc. This could be something FUNI could get passed the radar, but might result in a falling out with Toei. I know France has repeatedly been under fire by Toei for unauthorized DVD releases of certain series (Grendizer, and Candy Candy).

[AnimeMaakuo]

You should also recommend to Sabat that the episodes with this kind of audio be used for those said episodes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmqXzsMd-qM

Hell yeah! No doubt Kei and Animemaakuo will provide these episodes too I'd wet my pants to get these used in a release!

It's possible that I can present to Chris, tagged BGM tracks from Columbia. FUNi could do a 5.1 mix with Fuji TV at the center channel and stereo music at the left and right front channels. Not only can we benefit from Fuji TV audio, but higher quality BGM as well.

Level Sets with BGM #M729
Level Sets with BGM #M704
Eye Catch with BGM #M709A-M709B

Remastered Fuji TV vs Optical Audio (Dragon Box):

Dragon Box: SP1 - Hironobu Kageyama
Fuji TV: SP1 - Hironobu Kageyama

Dragon Box: SP1 - KÛKO
Fuji TV: SP1- KÛKO

Also, I'm currently planning on showing Chris that there are two television specials with broadcast audio. If he is able to use them, we will have something more to look forward to.

Oh, it's so amusing when you consider how many times the series has actually been released completely...Three, if I recall. The singles were missing the entire beginning, the Level sets were cancelled, etc...Three times if I'm correct. One of which is out of print, two of which are terribly cropped. If the release finishes, I'll buy the damn thing.

There might be a good chance we'll be able to convince FUNi if they believe there is a market for this. Everyone has the opportunity to email them. Send your complaints there. At the end of the day, you can say that you made a conserved effort to get what you wanted

[Bananape]

There might be a good chance we'll be able to convince FUNi if they believe there is a market for this. Everyone has the opportunity to email them. Send your complaints there. At the end of the day, you can say that you made a conserved effort to get what you wanted

As nice as this would be to believe, you've giving FUNimation a little too much leeway.

Did they respond to the fans who didn't want the Blu-rays to be cropped? NO. How about a re-release of the Dragon Boxes? NO. And considering how many people have been asking for these two things with no response whatsoever, what are the chances a greater number of fans will rally behind this and still be able to get FUNimation's attention?

Sabat can only do so much, the rest is ultimately FUNimation and Toei's decision. And considering Toei refused this audio themselves, what makes you think they'll let another country use this obviously superior audio compared to their own?

Don't get me wrong, I want to see this happen, but you gotta face the facts, this is a very uphill battle. I don't expect these audio files will ever see the light of an official release at all.

[theoriginalbilis]

Considering FUNimation has actually experimented with limited-edition sub-only releases in recent months, I would definitely argue that there is a decent chance that if enough fans, especially ones from this community, make their voices heard to FUNi, a "no-frills" 4:3 Blu-Ray release with the broadcast audio could happen and it could still make a profit.

Like I said, just make it a limited print run.

[LordCrumb]

There might be a good chance we'll be able to convince FUNi if they believe there is a market for this. Everyone has the opportunity to email them. Send your complaints there. At the end of the day, you can say that you made a conserved effort to get what you wanted

As nice as this would be to believe, you've giving FUNimation a little too much leeway.

Did they respond to the fans who didn't want the Blu-rays to be cropped? NO. How about a re-release of the Dragon Boxes? NO. And considering how many people have been asking for these two things with no response whatsoever, what are the chances a greater number of fans will rally behind this and still be able to get FUNimation's attention?

Sabat can only do so much, the rest is ultimately FUNimation and Toei's decision. And considering Toei refused this audio themselves, what makes you think they'll let another country use this obviously superior audio compared to their own?

Don't get me wrong, I want to see this happen, but you gotta face the facts, this is a very uphill battle. I don't expect these audio files will ever see the light of an official release at all.

I dont know the exact licence terms, but the Dragon Boxes were a different deal though, they only got a licence to distribute them for a limited time. No re-release will happen, unless they get a new licence.

[eledoremassis02]

What e-mail does one use to contact funi? Couldnt hurt

[Kojiro Sasaki]

FUNi could do a 5.1 mix with Fuji TV at the center channel and stereo music at the left and right front channels. Not only can we benefit from Fuji TV audio, but higher quality BGM as well.

You just inspired me! Ladies and gentlemen, let me introduce to you the first 5.1 mix of the Japanese language track the world has ever seen:

Dragon Ball Z 006: 5.1 mix sample

You need a properly configured 5.1 surround system to play this file. It wasn't made with downmixing in mind. Hell - it was made with nothing in mind I don't even have 5.1 speakers connected at the time so it is definitely far from perfect.

[Puto]

You're assuming that FUNimation require explicit permission from Toei to use a fan's audio recording. I don't believe this is necessarily the case.

From what somebody who works for a (different) anime licensing company told me, as long as they have the rights to a certain version of the show, they don't necessarily need to ask for explicit permission to use a different audio (or video) source, as long as they don't use any extra content that they don't already have a licence to (like potentially episode previews).

Unless FUNImation has been granted some sort of special privilege, they would most likely need Toei's permission for pretty much anything. I've worked with one company and I've been told Toei has the final word on everything including subtitles, translations, packaging, cover art, extras, etc. This could be something FUNI could get passed the radar, but might result in a falling out with Toei. I know France has repeatedly been under fire by Toei for unauthorized DVD releases of certain series (Grendizer, and Candy Candy).

You cannot compare releasing a show without authorisation to just using a better-sounding audio track. I'm not saying that they should advertise the fact that it's the original audio or anything else. Just use the audio track and there would likely be no problem, because they have the licence to release DBZ on home video with Japanese audio. It's highly unlikely that the licence contract would say anything like 'the Japanese audio must sound terrible', or that Toei would be fact-checking to ensure that the audio on the releases doesn't magically sound better than what they have. They have the right to release the series with Japanese audio, and they'd just be exercising that right. The fact that the audio happens to have come from a fan recording should be considered an inconsequential detail that shouldn't matter--it's not even a remaster that Toei might've made that they'd have to buy rights to or anything like with the Dragon Boxes!

[El Diabeetus]

At this point, this is the only thing that could ever get me to buy old DBz again. I own all of it, but, if the Japanese version manages to get this audio. I'd shell out for one more release.

[eledoremassis02]

It's highly unlikely that the licence contract would say anything like 'the Japanese audio must sound terrible

It might have something though that states TOEI must provide the material (ofcourse this is speculation). Funi coulda slapped the Dbox audio on the new Season Blurays otherwise since that was inherently better than what FUNi had in the past. I'm sure TOEI has a say or input what gets released. Just remember, TOEI had to approve the "Over 9000" shirts. I think we just need to wait and see...

[Puto]

It's highly unlikely that the licence contract would say anything like 'the Japanese audio must sound terrible

It might have something though that states TOEI must provide the material (ofcourse this is speculation). Funi coulda slapped the Dbox audio on the new Season Blurays otherwise since that was inherently better than what FUNi had in the past

I don't know about the season blu-rays (I never watched them), but I have reasons to believe they actually DID do that for the level sets.

[sangofe]

FUNi could do a 5.1 mix with Fuji TV at the center channel and stereo music at the left and right front channels. Not only can we benefit from Fuji TV audio, but higher quality BGM as well.

You just inspired me! Ladies and gentlemen, let me introduce to you the first 5.1 mix of the Japanese language track the world has ever seen:

Dragon Ball Z 006: 5.1 mix sample

You need a properly configured 5.1 surround system to play this file. It wasn't made with downmixing in mind. Hell - it was made with nothing in mind I don't even have 5.1 speakers connected at the time so it is definitely far from perfect.

Oh man, that sounded weird with the muffled speaking! (Also I found the bgm to be a bit too load). But it proves it's possible.

[eledoremassis02]

It's highly unlikely that the licence contract would say anything like 'the Japanese audio must sound terrible

It might have something though that states TOEI must provide the material (ofcourse this is speculation). Funi coulda slapped the Dbox audio on the new Season Blurays otherwise since that was inherently better than what FUNi had in the past

I don't know about the season blu-rays (I never watched them), but I have reasons to believe they actually DID do that for the level sets.

Really? I didnt think it sounded like it lol. If they did..I wonder why they didnt include NEP previews? I do hope thats one thing added with this original broadcast set

[Mosaic]

You cannot compare releasing a show without authorisation to just using a better-sounding audio track. I'm not saying that they should advertise the fact that it's the original audio or anything else. Just use the audio track and there would likely be no problem, because they have the licence to release DBZ on home video with Japanese audio. It's highly unlikely that the licence contract would say anything like 'the Japanese audio must sound terrible', or that Toei would be fact-checking to ensure that the audio on the releases doesn't magically sound better than what they have. They have the right to release the series with Japanese audio, and they'd just be exercising that right. The fact that the audio happens to have come from a fan recording should be considered an inconsequential detail that shouldn't matter--it's not even a remaster that Toei might've made that they'd have to buy rights to or anything like with the Dragon Boxes!

I'm just saying it's a possibility. I know one DVD company that stated they need Toei's approval for nearly everything. One series was delayed due to Toei rejecting liner notes that were included as extras. Toei is super picky about artwork too, they have to approve it. Companies are only allowed to use the art they provide, and if screencaps are used, they want to know from what episode and at what time.

Back when ADV released Sailor Moon, they were only allowed to use the TV masters that DIC was given back in '95. I'm sure if they tried to use LD or R2 DVD rips, they would've been rejected.

[rereboy]

You cannot compare releasing a show without authorisation to just using a better-sounding audio track. I'm not saying that they should advertise the fact that it's the original audio or anything else. Just use the audio track and there would likely be no problem, because they have the licence to release DBZ on home video with Japanese audio. It's highly unlikely that the licence contract would say anything like 'the Japanese audio must sound terrible', or that Toei would be fact-checking to ensure that the audio on the releases doesn't magically sound better than what they have. They have the right to release the series with Japanese audio, and they'd just be exercising that right. The fact that the audio happens to have come from a fan recording should be considered an inconsequential detail that shouldn't matter--it's not even a remaster that Toei might've made that they'd have to buy rights to or anything like with the Dragon Boxes!

It really depends on what kind of deals they have between them. Its perfectly possible that everything DB-related released has to be OKed by Toei, especially things that Toei didn't directly give them.

[Kojiro Sasaki]

Oh man, that sounded weird with the muffled speaking! (Also I found the bgm to be a bit too load). But it proves it's possible.

Yeah, it's hard to mix/master 5.1 audio without 5.1 speakers

An audio sample taken from the Dragon Box: The Movies Blu-ray Box Set (4:3, 1080p, ~28Mbps AVC, 5.1 DTS-HD Master Audio)

激突!!100億パワーの戦士たち (Japanese, 5.1 Dolby Digital)
(do not downmix to stereo!)

[MarcFBR]

An audio sample taken from the Dragon Box: The Movies Blu-ray Box Set (4:3, 1080p, ~28Mbps AVC, 5.1 DTS-HD Master Audio)

激突!!100億パワーの戦士たち (Japanese, 5.1 Dolby Digital)
(do not downmix to stereo!)

There is no Blu-ray box... the video isn't 4:3, it isn't 1080p... it isn't AVC... it isn't even DTS based audio...

I'm sure you have a point, but beyond saying 5.1 audio everything else you said is basically nonsense.