Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods"

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Freeza Soldier #156
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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods

Post by Freeza Soldier #156 » Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:36 pm

Wasn't the whole three wishes in the Majin Buu arc a mistake on Toriyama's part? Dende made it so that Shenlong could grant two wishes and all of the sudden in the Buu arc he comes out and says he can grant three. This could explain why he then only grants one wish: maybe there was only one left. Pilaf and co. has there wish messed up, freaks out, and doesn't bother to have their second wish granted. The second wish is then used by Goku and co. with Beerus. Who knows? Could just be mistakes all the way around.

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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods

Post by EmmaWinters » Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:56 pm

Freeza Soldier #156 wrote:Wasn't the whole three wishes in the Majin Buu arc a mistake on Toriyama's part? Dende made it so that Shenlong could grant two wishes and all of the sudden in the Buu arc he comes out and says he can grant three.
It's very convoluted. We should have three wishes now, but I believe two was the original intent.
Batch revives now count as two wishes. I wrote about this a little while back.
Last edited by EmmaWinters on Fri Jan 30, 2015 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods

Post by Freeza Soldier #156 » Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:01 pm

FatNagger69 wrote:
Freeza Soldier #156 wrote:Wasn't the whole three wishes in the Majin Buu arc a mistake on Toriyama's part? Dende made it so that Shenlong could grant two wishes and all of the sudden in the Buu arc he comes out and says he can grant three.
It's very convoluted. We should have three wishes now, but I believe two was the original intent.
Batch revives now count as two wishes. I wrote about this a little while back.
Interesting. I never really thought about it like that. I can definitely imagine Toriyama stumbling around trying to fix a screw-up. He should've made it easy on himself and just stuck with one wish. :lol:

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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods

Post by GoldLiger » Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:34 pm

Except he hasn't even officially stated on the WHY. As of now no reason has been given.
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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:41 pm

GoldLiger wrote:Except he hasn't even officially stated on the WHY. As of now no reason has been given.
Does one have to be given? Why does everything ever have to be explained? Do we really need to know, for example, why Goku eats so much? Does knowing the name of Freeza's race add to anything? What would be the point of having a discussion forum if everything was spelled out for us?
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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods

Post by EmmaWinters » Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:44 pm

GoldLiger wrote:Except he hasn't even officially stated on the WHY. As of now no reason has been given.
That's because officially there is no reason. The reason is they forgot.
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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods

Post by Careless Saiyajin » Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:02 pm

Shenron was feeling antsy and scared in the presence of the God of Destruction and so he humbly but quickly left with little concern over 2 more wishes hehe. This could be why the balls did not return to stone after scattering, they have 2 more wishes in stock if re gathered... I'll let the next film tell the rest.

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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods

Post by GoldLiger » Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:06 pm

Careless Saiyajin wrote:Shenron was feeling antsy and scared in the presence of the God of Destruction and so he humbly but quickly left with little concern over 2 more wishes hehe. This could be why the balls did not return to stone after scattering, they have 2 more wishes in stock if re gathered...
Sorry but I meant to Pilaf. Remember that he used one wish to wish for youth for them. He said the second wish was for fortune(reason why they are at Bulma's party) and the third wish was to rule the world.
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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods

Post by Careless Saiyajin » Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:09 pm

GoldLiger wrote:
Careless Saiyajin wrote:Shenron was feeling antsy and scared in the presence of the God of Destruction and so he humbly but quickly left with little concern over 2 more wishes hehe. This could be why the balls did not return to stone after scattering, they have 2 more wishes in stock if re gathered...
Sorry but I meant to Pilaf. Remember that he used one wish to wish for youth for them. He said the second wish was for fortune(reason why they are at Bulma's party) and the third wish was to rule the world.
That's the three, the z fighters only used one ( wish to learn of ssjg) thus two un used wishes. We agree under the premise that shenron can do 3 basic wishes.
Side note I don't actually mean anything by any of this because like it has already been explained there should only be 2 wishes to begin with, eh I give up. Mr.Toriyama just do whatever you want and I will nod and smile. lol

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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods

Post by GoldLiger » Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:08 pm

Careless Saiyajin wrote:
GoldLiger wrote:
Careless Saiyajin wrote:Shenron was feeling antsy and scared in the presence of the God of Destruction and so he humbly but quickly left with little concern over 2 more wishes hehe. This could be why the balls did not return to stone after scattering, they have 2 more wishes in stock if re gathered...
Sorry but I meant to Pilaf. Remember that he used one wish to wish for youth for them. He said the second wish was for fortune(reason why they are at Bulma's party) and the third wish was to rule the world.
That's the three, the z fighters only used one ( wish to learn of ssjg) thus two un used wishes. We agree under the premise that shenron can do 3 basic wishes.
Side note I don't actually mean anything by any of this because like it has already been explained there should only be 2 wishes to begin with, eh I give up. Mr.Toriyama just do whatever you want and I will nod and smile. lol
But the thing is that if Pilaf already had summoned the dragon then he should have had 3 wishes. It breaks the continuity if Shenron does not grant 3 wishes to Pilaf.
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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods

Post by Careless Saiyajin » Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:14 pm

I'm not going to think too hard about this or fact check, I'll go with the continuity may be slightly broken option and I'll pretend there are convenient plot hole filling reasons we don't know of in between to keep calm haha.

Side note, I just read the last thing you said about pilaf and the one thing I will say is that pre-dende shenron has different rules and grants one wish until dende gives the upgrade to two so pilaf would only have the option to gain one wish which oolong used. Additionally anything pilaf might have said about the dragon in battle of gods doesn't hold full wait because he is no expert and could be mistaken.

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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods

Post by GoldLiger » Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:29 pm

Careless Saiyajin wrote:I'm not going to think too hard about this or fact check, I'll go with the continuity may be slightly broken option and I'll pretend there are convenient plot hole filling reasons we don't know of in between to keep calm haha.

Side note, I just read the last thing you said about pilaf and the one thing I will say is that pre-dende shenron has different rules and grants one wish until dende gives the upgrade to two so pilaf would only have the option to gain one wish which oolong used. Additionally anything pilaf might have said about the dragon in battle of gods doesn't hold full wait because he is no expert and could be mistaken.
"I'm not going to think too hard about this or fact check, I'll go with the continuity may be slightly broken option and I'll pretend there are convenient plot hole filling reasons we don't know of in between to keep calm haha" Basically sheep mentality

Plus we know Pilaf didn't wish before Dende because of how old he is there. He stated that they turned to KIDS(basically like they are currently). No matter excuses we give AT it won't be valid until he himself states the reason. So until that point Battle of Gods and Revival of Frieza are going into the Alternate Universe/Parallel Timeline box for now.
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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:37 pm

I don't understand why you feel the need to be so antagonistic on almost everything these days.

Battle of Gods and Revival of F have been written by Toriyama as continuations of the manga. They are designed to be in the same continuity, regardless of any plotholes introduced. This is Toriyama, that happens. It happened in the manga too, and they didn't always get addressed there. So while it would be great if they are, I don't see why anyone would expect them to be. It's just part of being invested in the franchise.
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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods

Post by hleV » Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:56 pm

The thing with 2 wishes becoming 3 wishes, while contradictory, may be explained with Dende somewhat re-adjusting how this works, possibly under Piccolo's guidance? So now Shenlong doesn't grant 2 wishes only no matter what they are, he only grants 2 wishes if they involve reviving multiple people, otherwise it's full 3 wishes. It's convenient, unlike it dropping to 1 wish in BOG, which is nothing other than an outright contradiction that cannot be explained without involving some additional, more complex explanation unlike "it's minor and done for convenience".

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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods

Post by GoldLiger » Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:59 pm

TheDevilsCorpse wrote:I don't understand why you feel the need to be so antagonistic on almost everything these days.

Battle of Gods and Revival of F have been written by Toriyama as continuations of the manga. They are designed to be in the same continuity, regardless of any plotholes introduced. This is Toriyama, that happens. It happened in the manga too, and they didn't always get addressed there. So while it would be great if they are, I don't see why anyone would expect them to be. It's just part of being invested in the franchise.
Unless you know Mr. Toriyama himself and explained the reason WHY he hasn't yet reveal his reasons for this fact then it will be AU to any TRUE DB fan who closely follows the continuity of the original work 25 to 30 years ago.
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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods

Post by GoldLiger » Fri Jan 30, 2015 7:01 pm

hleV wrote:The thing with 2 wishes becoming 3 wishes, while contradictory, may be explained with Dende somewhat re-adjusting how this works, possibly under Piccolo's guidance? So now Shenlong doesn't grant 2 wishes only no matter what they are, he only grants 2 wishes if they involve reviving multiple people, otherwise it's full 3 wishes. It's convenient, unlike it dropping to 1 wish in BOG, which is nothing other than an outright contradiction that cannot be explained without involving some additional, more complex explanation unlike "it's minor and done for convenience".
And because Mr. Toriyama doesn't want to explain this contradiction away leads us to believe that he outright LIED to us about this new series of movies being part of the manga continuity.
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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods

Post by rereboy » Fri Jan 30, 2015 7:05 pm

In the manga, Zarbon never tells Vegeta that Freeza had transformations, even though Vegeta later says so. Also, Trunks warns Goku about androids #19 and #20 but later Trunks only knows androids #17 and #18. Did Toriyama lie then too?

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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods

Post by Freeza Soldier #156 » Fri Jan 30, 2015 7:06 pm

GoldLiger wrote: Unless you know Mr. Toriyama himself and explained the reason WHY he hasn't yet reveal his reasons for this fact then it will be AU to any TRUE DB fan who closely follows the continuity of the original work 25 to 30 years ago.
Great. Someone else who thinks they can say whether or not someone is a true fan. We're all here because we are true fans of DB. I'm a true fan of DB; have been for over a decade and I consider BOG and FnF part of the manga storyline. Why? Because Toriyama wrote them and said that they were part of the manga storyline, that's why.

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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Fri Jan 30, 2015 7:06 pm

rereboy wrote:In the manga, Zarbon never tells Vegeta that Freeza had transformations
It's the anime where they skipped over that.
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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods

Post by rereboy » Fri Jan 30, 2015 7:07 pm

TheDevilsCorpse wrote:
rereboy wrote:In the manga, Zarbon never tells Vegeta that Freeza had transformations
It's the anime where they skipped over that.
It is? Then I got them mixed up. Anyway, the android example is enough to make my point.

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