Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
Yūsuke Watanabe wrote:I thought people might even get angry at me, but in the video, it was even sillier than I’d imagined. (laughs) But in the story Toriyama-sensei made, Vegeta was supposed to waver, and there’s even a moment where Vegeta briefly surpasses Goku because he’s got something to protect in Bulma, so that silly scene was also necessary as a lead-in to make it stand out.
Huh, I see. I wonder if Toriyama knows when he's going against some of the known lines of dialog in the manga and intentionally retcons it lol
Suupaa Gohan 2 wrote:Like most of the other non-Saiyan characters at this point, Bulma's purpose is that of subservience to the grand design of Only Saiyan Characters Matter Because Toei™. Presumably since we've at least heard about Goku, Vegeta and Gohan's respective roles in the film, and THEN get information about secondary characters, all the participating Saiyans with any significant contribution to the story have already been alluded to. We haven't heard a peep about Goten or Trunks since the movie was announced, and with the expansion of *relative* nobodies like Bulma and Roshi confirmed, the time to at least mention the boys as any sort of a presence has clearly passed. They obviously do not exist.
Relative nobodies?? Need I remind you that Bulma is one of the few cast members who was actually PRESENT on Namek for the whole Frieza debacle in the first place? Her having a big role in this film is only natural.
FutureGohanSSJ2 wrote:
But the problem is, it doesn't make any sense. Vegeta would have had to have grown AT LEAST 4 times stronger. Just for Bulma being slapped? That's a huuuge boost just for an emotional thing.
And? Gohan grew 1,307 times stronger while facing Raditz.
Not true. While simply crying away in the pod, his power was 710. It can be argued it's normally higher as he doesn't know how to control his power properly.
Chapter: 199 (DBZ 5), P3.4-6
Raditz: “Battle power 710!! And close!! Where?! [ ] What?! That brat?!"
Chapter: 199 (DBZ 5), P6.4
Raditz: “It can't be... there absolutely has to be some mistake! It's impossible for him to have a battle power of 710 at such a young age...!!"
Chapter: 203 (DBZ , P4.1, P8.3, P9.4
Context: Gohan gets extremely mad as Raditz torments Goku, powering up, but this power goes away quickly
Raditz: “Ba…ba…battle power 1,307?! [ ] N... now his battle power is only 1. It... it completely changes with his em... emotions…[ ] Only a child?! You’re joking! The brat has a higher battle power than you! I’ll kill him now, while he still doesn’t know how to use it properly…!”
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
dbzfan7 wrote:And? Gohan grew 1,307 times stronger while facing Raditz.
Not true. While simply crying away in the pod, his power was 710. It can be argued it's normally higher as he doesn't know how to control his power properly.[/quote]
Feel the need to point out that that wouldn't really make any sense. If Gohan just constantly walked around with a battle power that high instead of in the ~1 realm, Goku shouldn't have been surprised by his son's power.
Direct translations of the Korean DB Online timeline and guidebook.
My personal "canon" and BP list. (Coming Soon)
I like Bulma's new design. It's good to change up the outfits on occasion. Too many shows/series have characters wear the same thing every day for years. It's kinda silly.
I wonder if Freeza will try and kill Trunks for revenge... "*sees Trunks* Minion, hand me a sword...this is personal."
Here's something only tangentially related (via Momoiro Clover Z), but I found this in an interview with JAM Project (thought it was neat):
"Do you each have any favorite current or past musicians that you would dream of working with?
Kageyama: There's a lot of artists I'd love to work with, but I really love KISS! Right now there's also a band in Japan called Momoiro Clover Z who are doing sessions with KISS themselves, and I'm really jealous."
I'd love that crossover (and even more to have Kageyama back in DBZ...I still don't know why Toei doesn't use him anymore in any franchise he's worked in).
@Mewzard Probably because he isn't 'the new hotness' anymore. Despite the fact that Kageyama would fit perfectly for a movie celebrating Freeza consider Freeza originated in that era.
TheDevilsCorpse wrote:
Feel the need to point out that that wouldn't really make any sense. If Gohan just constantly walked around with a battle power that high instead of in the ~1 realm, Goku shouldn't have been surprised by his son's power.
Well you'd think at 710 he'd be able to break that pod easily with a few hits, but apparently not. I'd regard it all as his power, just his uncontrolled power. Like Raditz said it's controlled by his emotions. He's always been this powerful, he just doesn't know how to control it.
Retan wrote:Can we stop crying for Gohan he's a turd anyway.
You mean like how people are crying for Vegeta to get some revenge for himself...even though Freeza was just being an asshole to another genocidal asshole like him and we shouldn't feel the least bit sorry for Vegeta? I'm tired of that too, but it still goes on today.
Last edited by dbzfan7 on Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:55 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Kageyama might also be more expensive than what Toei is willing to pay. I imagine a decent chunk of budget is already going to pay for keeping the main voice cast on for F.
Retan wrote:Can we stop crying for Gohan he's a turd anyway.
Not cool dude.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Retan wrote:Can we stop crying for Gohan he's a turd anyway.
Shots fired! I repeat shots fired!
To be frank, I care about Gohan! I'd like to see him take center stage and be the hero again. I think that's why I liked the Bojack movie so much in retrospect.
Going on hiatus. Too much stuff in RL to deal with for me to keep up with posts here for now. Was fun, hope you all have a nice day and future! Volt signing off.
With the many years on the net I've spent...I've learned being polite takes you much further then being a dick. So...lesson here is! Don't be a dick!
"Fill up your stomach and your happiness! " - Cure Honey
I see the "collect together all those who were involved in the Freeza arc", but I still can't help wondering about the rest of the cast that seems missing so far--the active fighters in later-additions at least. Not just Trunks and Goten, but 18, Buu, Videl, Mr. Satan.
*Imagines Freeza's reaction to Buu turning Freeza's soldiers into candy.*
I can't count Trunks and Goten out yet though, because they haven't shown us Toriyama's artwork for Gokû, Vegeta, and Freeza; so it looks like we're going "supporting characters first" with the pattern of artwork reveals. (We also haven't seen Toriyama's Piccolo drawing yet, but since he doesn't change outfits he might just not have one?)
Last edited by Chuquita on Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
, P4.1, P8.3, P9.4
