Question about Toei's marketing motives

[EXBadguy]

Is there another reason why Toei's holding back on the age marketing demographic stuff? Why they are lowering some stuff for little kids(0-8). I know they're doing it for the moolah, but I wanna know is there another reason? I thought the whole DB series was for the kids and teens(10-18). I ask that, cuz of the way BoG was and how FnF is looking now by adding these stupid cute angels that made me wanna puke.

Some of yall will say that it just has to do with change of taste. That's actually true, which is why I realized I only like DB for its balance and dark moments, but I still need to know why Toei's setting this franchise to a lower denominator.

[MarcFBR]

Dragon Ball is a franchise for children that can be enjoyed by anyone.

For children.

It's a comic and a cartoon generally aimed at little kids. Plenty of product is sold to people who used to be those little kids back when the franchise was new.

But it's a franchise aimed at children.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Yup! Dragon Ball IS for kids 2-8 years old. Sure its got the quality to attract older audiences but has always been a kids show first and foremost. And yes, I'm not ignoring all the violence and sex jokes. However, the only time DB has been toned down to appeal to 0-6 was when Toonzai/Vortexx got its hands on it but even then it had Krillin getting impalled and Vegeta Gleefully admitting that he killed loads of Namekians.

[EXBadguy]

Yeah, Toei has weird marketing, especially when the sexual jokes and people ripping heads and arms off mortal kombat style are exposed to children. It's not just DB, it's any anime over at Toei, even One Piece. How do the parents put up with that?

[Gyt Kaliba]

Because not everyone has the same standards. Take me for example. I plan to, if I should ever have children, teach them the differences between reality and fiction, so that they should hopefully be able to handle such things in entertainment better. Something that I feel too many people aren't teaching their kids.

But take some others for example. They don't want their kids exposed to certain things, and decry when they appear in certain mediums. So they either 1) demand it's removal, 2) shield their children from it, 3) some combination of the two, or 4) some other method that I'm just not thinking of at the moment.

There's never going to be a truly universal standard on what's appropriate for certain ages or not in entertainment.

And for what it's worth at any rate, I for one would think that extreme violence would possibly be more damaging than sexual content, anyway. There are limits of course, I'm not advocating that kids have access to porn, but...well, what would you rather a kid grow up and eventually see, a naked body, or someone's head exploding? Just a thought.

[DBZAOTA482]

So wait Dragon Ball is a kodomo manga/anime series? All these years I thought it was shonen.

[Lord Beerus]

Yeah, Toei has weird marketing, especially when the sexual jokes and people ripping heads and arms off mortal kombat style are exposed to children. It's not just DB, it's any anime over at Toei, even One Piece. How do the parents put up with that?

Well back in the day, censoring for what was considered kid shows way more lenient. You could get away with damn near anything. You could sneak in as many adult references to sex, humour and violence as possible and they would still air it on TV and market it as a show for kids. Of course Japan have become much more strict when it comes to censorship but that doesn't stop Shin Chan from being marketed towards kids and that show is full of vulgar humour and black comedy.

[DBZAOTA482]

Yeah, Toei has weird marketing, especially when the sexual jokes and people ripping heads and arms off mortal kombat style are exposed to children. It's not just DB, it's any anime over at Toei, even One Piece. How do the parents put up with that?

Well back in the day, censoring for what was considered kid shows way more lenient. You could get away with damn near anything. You could sneak in as many adult references to sex, humour and violence as possible and they would still air it on TV and market it as a show for kids. Of course Japan have become much more strict when it comes to censorship but that doesn't stop Shin Chan from being marketed towards kids and that show is full of vulgar humour and black comedy.

Shin Chan is not a kid's show. It's a senien.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Yeah, Toei has weird marketing, especially when the sexual jokes and people ripping heads and arms off mortal kombat style are exposed to children. It's not just DB, it's any anime over at Toei, even One Piece. How do the parents put up with that?

Didnt I tell you? People in Japan arent like in America, they arent opposed to those things being in Kids anime. Parents dont really mind. Why is this usuch a tough pill to swallow?

[EXBadguy]

Well back in the day, censoring for what was considered kid shows way more lenient. You could get away with damn near anything. You could sneak in as many adult references to sex, humour and violence as possible and they would still air it on TV and market it as a show for kids.

Yeah, the US used to be like this too with Looney Tunes with the crude mild sexual humor, people using weapons, and tobacco references, even they censored shit and lowered themselves to a lower denominator. But at least people notice the difference, unlike some people here who think DB has been having the same kiddy feel for years. I for one didn't. Heck, even DB wasn't that kiddy, and I didn't like it until the King Piccolo saga.

Because not everyone has the same standards. Take me for example. I plan to, if I should ever have children, teach them the differences between reality and fiction, so that they should hopefully be able to handle such things in entertainment better. Something that I feel too many people aren't teaching their kids.

But take some others for example. They don't want their kids exposed to certain things, and decry when they appear in certain mediums. So they either 1) demand it's removal, 2) shield their children from it, 3) some combination of the two, or 4) some other method that I'm just not thinking of at the moment.

There's never going to be a truly universal standard on what's appropriate for certain ages or not in entertainment.

This I strongly, STRONGLY agree. It's mostly the parent's responsibility when it comes to stuff like this. But here's the thing, I'm talking about the actual reactions to entertainment. What if your child is watching something that you didn't want them to watch. That goes for any show. Not just anime. Plus, kids dunno anything better than to imitate what they see, no matter if you try to teach them the differences.

Didnt I tell you? People in Japan arent like in America, they arent opposed to those things being in Kids anime. Parents dont really mind. Why is this usuch a tough pill to swallow?

You see, I'm not saying they should censor more shit, I'm just asking WHY are they censoring more shit and putting more stupid stuff in, besides them doing it for the money. Toei and Toriyama were never like this before. Back then they just didn't give a fuck. I know it's "DB like" as you people here say, but I'm just saying, I've NEVER seen anything so. freaking. childish like these stupid cutsey angels. This series wasn't like this, not even the original DB. That's my gripe.

Again, maybe my tastes have changed, but I still shake my head at what FnF is becoming.

[Rocketman]

Yeah, the US used to be like this too with Looney Tunes with the crude mild sexual humor, people using weapons, and tobacco references, even they censored shit and lowered themselves to a lower denominator.

Looney Tunes was made for adults. It began to be censored when it moved to TV in the 1970s.

[Hellspawn28]

Yeah, Toei has weird marketing, especially when the sexual jokes and people ripping heads and arms off mortal kombat style are exposed to children. It's not just DB, it's any anime over at Toei, even One Piece. How do the parents put up with that?

DBZ violence's is nothing like Mortal Kombat. DBZ is tame as hell compare to other anime and manga like Berserk, Hellsing, Devilman and The Guyver. DBZ has blood, so what? Kids movies had blood in them too and kids can watch movies like Watership Down just fine. Why is DBZ being market to 4 - 13 such a bad thing? I mean the Marvel movies are always market to kids since they have huge toy lines and kids go see them when they are PG-13. DBZ is no different then what you see in most PG-13 movies in theaters.

Also kids in Japan grew up watching Ultraman and Kamen Rider having monsters rip in bloody pieces on Sunday mornings. Japan is less strict on violence then we are and I wish we would do the same since people like to block everything these days to kids.

[Herms]

I ask that, cuz of the way BoG was and how FnF is looking now by adding these stupid cute angels that made me wanna puke.

If we're talking about the angels specifically, then they're in the film to provide celebrity cameos for the idol group Momoiro Clover Z, similar to the Oracle Fish and Random Police Woman in BoG. Design-wise they're practically identically to the Gatchan from Dr. Slump, who appear briefly in DB during the Penguin Village segment of the Red Ribbon story arc. So overall they're nothing new by a long-shot. As for why Momoiro Clover Z get cameos in the film, it's because they're providing the song that will be the movie's main theme. And as for why they're doing that, well, according to Toei Animation producer Norihiro Hayashida, "Toei made them the offer after hearing the group were all big fans of Dragon Ball, and understood the series’ world very well. He also expressed his hope that the synergy through the shared “Z” in their name would help make the film a big hit". So basically, the group's big right now, apparently they like the franchise, and Toei hopes they'll bring in a bigger audience for the film. I'm no expert on idol groups, but I don't believe they're marketed predominantly towards little kids or anything. They're basically young pop stars.

[EXBadguy]

As for why Momoiro Clover Z get cameos in the film, it's because they're providing the song that will be the movie's main theme. And as for why they're doing that, well, according to Toei Animation producer Norihiro Hayashida, "Toei made them the offer after hearing the group were all big fans of Dragon Ball, and understood the series’ world very well. He also expressed his hope that the synergy through the shared “Z” in their name would help make the film a big hit". So basically, the group's big right now, apparently they like the franchise, and Toei hopes they'll bring in a bigger audience for the film. I'm no expert on idol groups, but I don't believe they're marketed predominantly towards little kids or anything. They're basically young pop stars.

These idol groups don't fucking belong in Dragon Ball, EVER! I'm sure most people here would agree with me on that.

I wish Outrage(Naoki Hashimoto) or Crush40 did a song for the movie besides those idiot idol groups, man.

Yeah, Toei has weird marketing, especially when the sexual jokes and people ripping heads and arms off mortal kombat style are exposed to children. It's not just DB, it's any anime over at Toei, even One Piece. How do the parents put up with that?

DBZ violence's is nothing like Mortal Kombat. DBZ is tame as hell compare to other anime and manga like Berserk, Hellsing, Devilman and The Guyver. DBZ has blood, so what? Kids movies had blood in them too and kids can watch movies like Watership Down just fine. Why is DBZ being market to 4 - 13 such a bad thing? I mean the Marvel movies are always market to kids since they have huge toy lines and kids go see them when they are PG-13. DBZ is no different then what you see in most PG-13 movies in theaters.

The problem is that none of the series ever got to a point where it became too colorful and stupid like it is now. Look at the way BoG is, it turned MANY people off and it had mixed to decent reviews. It's only you guys here that love the movie. At least the Marvel company knows their marketing unlike Toei. Marvel knows that there will be older fans, so they will spice things up while still making it PG-13. Marvel knows when to add comedy and fighting while Toei doesn't anymore. I don't expect them to follow the "villain shows up then get's destroyed" pattern, but just take notes from Marvel.

Also kids in Japan grew up watching Ultraman and Kamen Rider having monsters rip in bloody pieces on Sunday mornings. Japan is less strict on violence then we are and I wish we would do the same since people like to block everything these days to kids.

Isn't Japan doing the same thing also? Like I said again, I'm not saying Toei should become like the US. I'm asking why they're becoming soft besides doing it for the money.

[MarcFBR]

The problem is that none of the series ever got to a point where it became too colorful and stupid like it is now. Look at the way BoG is, it turned MANY people off and it had mixed to decent reviews. It's only you guys here that love the movie. At least the Marvel company knows their marketing unlike Toei. Marvel knows that there will be older fans, so they will spice things up while still making it PG-13. Marvel knows when to add comedy and fighting while Toei doesn't anymore. I don't expect them to follow the "villain shows up then get's destroyed" pattern, but just take notes from Marvel.

The Dragon Ball franchise was founded on being colorful and stupid, a tradition it continued until the very end, where one of the last villains was a pink tub of goo.

And when was the last time you read a comic? The stuff in the movies has generically been aged down from the last few decades of comics to make it more palatable to the mass market.

The fact DB/Z is what it is and not what you want it to be doesn't change the fact that it's a franchise based on a guy writing a fun action/adventure series for children.

If you don't like it for what it is, there are plenty of other franchises I'm sure you'd like more.

[EXBadguy]

One Piece is the same as Dragon Ball by being colorful and stupid and aimed for kids, but do you see its latest movies stooping so low to the point when it becomes extreme?

If you don't like it for what it is, there are plenty of other franchises I'm sure you'd like more.

Thanks, but no thanks. I've honestly stopped liking anime a while ago. I don't expect DB to be over-the-top serious, I just want it to step up.

[DBZAOTA482]

The problem is that none of the series ever got to a point where it became too colorful and stupid like it is now. Look at the way BoG is, it turned MANY people off and it had mixed to decent reviews. It's only you guys here that love the movie. At least the Marvel company knows their marketing unlike Toei. Marvel knows that there will be older fans, so they will spice things up while still making it PG-13. Marvel knows when to add comedy and fighting while Toei doesn't anymore. I don't expect them to follow the "villain shows up then get's destroyed" pattern, but just take notes from Marvel.

The Dragon Ball franchise was founded on being colorful and stupid, a tradition it continued until the very end, where one of the last villains was a pink tub of goo.

....Which is a juxtaposition to his evil, spiteful uncontrollable hair-trigger temper side.

[TripleRach]

Also kids in Japan grew up watching Ultraman and Kamen Rider having monsters rip in bloody pieces on Sunday mornings. Japan is less strict on violence then we are and I wish we would do the same since people like to block everything these days to kids.

Kamen Rider is a good example of how Japan's views on violence in kids shows have shifted over the years. You certainly don't see much gore in the most recent entries. But the franchise was always hero shows aimed at children. And from what I understand, parents even complained about the level of violence in some cases (Amazon, Hibiki) enough to affect the direction of the show.

One Piece is the same as Dragon Ball by being colorful and stupid and aimed for kids, but do you see its latest movies stooping so low to the point when it becomes extreme?

One Piece is hot shit, and it's still producing new content. Whereas Dragon Ball is chugging along on nostalgia fuel and needs extra help. But I seem to recall that Avril Lavigne did the theme for one of the One Piece movies a few years ago.

[Hellspawn28]

Dragon Ball was never meant to be dark and gritty. I won't mind a more serious DB show or movie but the series needs to have gag moments and campy moments. I don't want to see a Dragon Ball equivalent of Mortal Kombat: Rebirth, Twisted Metal Black and the Nolan Batman movies (2005 - 2012). Not everything needs to be dark and gritty.

[Theophrastus]

It's not marketing so much as it is who's writing the new stuff and actually coming up with the designs and such. Toriyama has always been much more comfortable doing gags than serious drama. The "serious" stretch of DB from King Piccolo up through Cell (which, admittedly, accounts for 24 out of 42 volumes) is more the exception to his general writing style than the rule. Look at pretty much everything he has actually done pre- and post-Dragon Ball and you can see that.

Toriyama is the one doing the majority of the writing for these movies, so of course he's going to throw in stuff that fits his own sensibilities more, hence the goofiness.

It's unlikely you'll see anything truly "grim" from Toriyama-written Dragon Ball anymore. If you want that you'll have to find a way to oust Toriyama from the writing process and put Toei's people in charge again.

As far as the comparison to One Piece, again that comes down to who's actually doing the writing. Eiichiro Oda likes himself some gags and general absurdity, but he also quite regularly tosses serious drama and tragedy into his writing. Oda was heavily involved in the last two major One Piece films, and it shows.