Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection 'F'"

[Careless Saiyajin]

Didn't people not notice that it is Mecha-Frieza that is in the cocoon and not his final form self?

Yeah that has been a heated point of dispute since 7am this morning but we've gone through so many pages today here at kanzenshuu so how would you know lol!

So what is the reason for a soul to look like he was part metal?

No conclusions were made, everyone was just agreeing and coming up with all the reasons why it does not make much sense. (Even though the majority of us are not denying that we will enjoy the movie).

[dbzfan7]

What is the point of torture and punishment if everyone is reincarnated? Reincarnation is already the ultimate punishment.

[KentalSSJ6]

Yep. That's hell alright.

[Hellspawn28]

If #17 and #18 can die as cyborgs and be brought back cyborgs then Freeza should be no different.

[Storm101]

What is the point of torture and punishment if everyone is reincarnated? Reincarnation is already the ultimate punishment.

Reincarnation is a kindness compared to an eternity of torment.

[lord turbo]

Goku went from a power level of 8000 to 150,000,000 in 6 six days.

Just putting that out there.

Grrrrr... Fine, I'll bite. Lets go further back to Goku's 416 when he confronted Raditz. nearly a year later with about six months of special training from North Kaio Goku went from over 416 to over 8,000 (Not counting Kaioken power ups). Okay, that's fine. six days later Goku under goes various levels of gravity training in preparation of the battle on Namek, also during this time Goku is abusing the NDPU (Near Death Power Up) trait which is exclusive to the Saiyajin race to further increase his power by a ridiculous amount in such as short amount of time. Goku is now 90,000 when he lands on Namek. Afterwards, Ginyu Goku is savagely beaten to near death by Vegeta and Goku gets another asspu...er...ridiculous increase in power thanks to the NDPU trait exclusive to the Saiyajin race. Goku is now 3 million. After the horrific demise of his best friends pushes him over the edge Goku unlocks the SSJ transformation that boost his power level 50x against Freeza, his power level is now 150 million.

Context is very important here. Goku and the main Z-Senshi by extension didn't simply just train and shebang, they are now this powerful. Every character that got a ridiculous power up is always explained due to a very specific reason. No one just trains and gets X amount of times stronger in a short amount of time just cause. If that was the case the humans would be stronger than Buu before Raditz showed up. I got no problem with Freeza getting much stronger through training. The only problem I have is that he does so in such a short amount of time. Would have been better had it been at least five years plus god power up. A few months of training just seems like lousy writing.

Saying Freeza is a prodigy even though he has been stated to have never once trained a day in his life is just beyond silly, its like Toriyama isn't even trying anymore. Come on man, don't half ass things, you are so much better than this. Also, I can't stand the needlessly retcons here and there just to force a story to go a certain way.

If Goku can increase his power level eleven-fold in 6 days, and given that Freeza is also a fighting prodigy, in four month of rigorous training who says his power level can't skyrocket? And remember, his final form is technically his true base form. So 120,000,000 times anything higher than 1000 and Freeza is force to be reckoned with again.

Why do you assume just because Character A does something character B must be capable of the same exact same thing? Vegeta, Tenshinhan, and Piccolo are also super special fighting prodigies yet they still can't replicate what Goku does and even Vegeta in the actual story no less fully admits this during their battle in the Buu arc. Goku just happens to be that special snowflake and what he does is specific to him and this has been mentioned several times by different characters in the series. So sorry if I take offense when you say Goku did this, then why can't Freeza? It annoys me because you are diminishing a specific character trait that's unique to Goku.

What's worst is that Goku and his Earth allies became that strong due to body, mind, and soul training that's accustomed to Earth (And typical battle shonen genre) thanks to Roshi and Crane Master training. Something that was a foreign concept to guys like Ginyu and Freeza which is why Ginyu was unable to access Goku's full power when he was in his body and this is stressed as a very important thing in both the series and guide books. Freeza is literally a narrow minded brute, he doesn't know a single damn thing about what it takes to accomplish what Goku did which makes it all the more ridiculous that he achieves what he does now that I think about it.

No one bats and eye at Abo and Cado going from Ginyu Tier to Freeza tier many years later because it makes sense for that kind of progression for guys in Freeza's army. Freeza doing this in four months just screams of forced asspull lazy writing when its not needed. There are several methods in DBZ to acquire ridiculous power in DBZ. Potenial unlock, hidden/latent power unlock, super special ancient edible artifact that increases your power, actually proper cybernetic enhancements on par with Dr. Gero, and of course, God power up. Anything other than another transformation or simple few months of training.

If that's really Hell then Hell is looks more stranger then we imagine. It looks different then how we saw in the anime which is a good thing in my opinion. I think Freeza wrapped in a cocoon could be that he is wrapped up until his soul is clean and ready to be reincarnated. Anyone thinks that souls are wrapped up in trees in Hell until they are reincarnated?

Really? it looks near identical to Hell in the anime which was very kid friendly looking minus the Spongebob like characters.

Still super excited, but having slight issues with Freeza having a body in Hell and being resurrected as Mecha Freeza chunks. So I'm hoping this is stuff just from the manga (though I'm pretty sure it won't be).

Unless we're given a good explanation, Freeza, like all bad guys, should be a cloud spirit. Also, since he should be a cloud, I don't understand what his body has to do with anything. Shenlong seems capable of resurrecting people in a better state than Mecha Freeza chunks. Bora didn't have his wounds, all the people Vegeta killed at the 25th Tenka'ichi Budokai were resurrected into their normal bodies automatically. So why is Freeza's revival working this way with Shenlong? Does he realize Freeza is evil and he's just being a dick...?

I was thinking the same thing, all the people that were sucked into nutrients by Cell's tail and the ones vaporized by Cell in his second form when he was nuking islands to find 18 all were revived back to normal. Trunks outright vaporized Freeza's remains, he wasn't scattered, even so he shouldn't have a problem restoring Freeza back to normal like he's done everyone else in the past so reviving him as pieces is just stupid, that's like reviving Chaozu or Kuririn in blown pieces. That parts is just inconsistent nonsense by Toriyama for no apparent good reason other than forgetful Toriyama is forgetful.

[GokuRules987]

What is the point of torture and punishment if everyone is reincarnated? Reincarnation is already the ultimate punishment.

Reincarnation is a kindness compared to an eternity of torment.

Thats dumb, what if the person did something very evil, does he deserve to get away for his actions while the person that he caused harm too deserves too suffer? I dont get it. Buu killed entire human race, he deserves to be obliterated from existence but ofcourse Dragon ball logic.

[singsing]

Didn't people not notice that it is Mecha-Frieza that is in the cocoon and not his final form self?

He died as a cyborg. Since he was cut in half it looks like Shenron had issues wishing back which is why Freeza is brought back in his 1st form.

Which still doesn't make sense because his natural form is his final form.

[fadeddreams5]

I agree with lord turbo. There were so, so many ways they for them to make Frieza reach a new god level. It's really lazy and terrible for them to go with training and all of a sudden bringing up this "prodigy" nonsense.

And LOL at what DBZ hell is really like.

[TheGmGoken]

Could this be a personal hell instead of hell itself? Similar to American Dad in which Stan has his own personal heaven?

Son Goten likes this.

[Big Momma]

Son Goten likes this.

Why would Goten like that? I don't understand.

[dbzfan7]

What is the point of torture and punishment if everyone is reincarnated? Reincarnation is already the ultimate punishment.

Reincarnation is a kindness compared to an eternity of torment.

Not really. Ceasing to be yourself is kind of the ultimate punishment. Besides there is no force in the after life that can harm Freeza. Enma who is ruler is weaker than Kaio. The only punishment he's getting is some stupid gag punishment.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Not really. Ceasing to be yourself is kind of the ultimate punishment. Besides there is no force in the after life that can harm Freeza. Enma who is ruler is weaker than Kaio. The only punishment he's getting is some stupid gag punishment.

It is, but at the same time, it isn't. At first it is, but then once it's done...it's done. You no longer exist. Punishment over.

Being made to sit in one location forever, no matter what it is that's being done to you, though? THAT sounds like Hell to me.

[MasterVampire]

This is complete bullshit!!!!!!!!!

Even if Freeza did train for a few months his power level would realistically be around...what? like Imperfect or Semi-Pefect Cell?

To have him go from his power level on Planet Namek (so really weak) to a point where he is stronger than Goku at his max (so even stronger than Buu) in such a short amount of time is impossible and unrealistic even for DBZ.

[dbzfan7]

Not really. Ceasing to be yourself is kind of the ultimate punishment. Besides there is no force in the after life that can harm Freeza. Enma who is ruler is weaker than Kaio. The only punishment he's getting is some stupid gag punishment.

It is, but at the same time, it isn't. At first it is, but then once it's done...it's done. You no longer exist. Punishment over.

Being made to sit in one location forever, no matter what it is that's being done to you, though? THAT sounds like Hell to me.

I agree both are pretty bad...but seeing how this punishment accomplishes absolutely nothing. What's the point? It's why I've always found hell to be a dumb concept. There is no learning or point, just agony. Nothing is gained from it. It's just punishment that's pointless.

[Saiga]

I didn't think my expectations for this could get any lower, but there you go. Good thing it's just a movie.

Same here. I've long given up hope for Toriyama salvaging this movie, but I am quite intrigued to see if he can continue to make this even shittier. I dare say this could be a whole new level of suck for him, which would be quite a milestone.

I also agree with Lord Turbo. You have to take things extremely far out of context to try and compare them to Freeza's claims. Even then, pointing out the asspulls from the manga like Goku's final zenkai doesn't defend Freeza. Those were horseshit in the manga so of course they're going to be horseshit when recycled.

It's pretty bad if you can only defend something by comparing it to the weakest parts of what came before. "We fucked up earlier, so it's okay to just do the same now" No. How about you do better and not rely on the weaker parts of the story as a crutch.

[KentalSSJ6]

This is complete bullshit!!!!!!!!!

Even if Freeza did train for a few months his power level would realistically be around...what? like Imperfect or Semi-Pefect Cell?

To have him go from his power level on Planet Namek (so really weak) to a point where he is stronger than Goku at his max (so even stronger than Buu) in such a short amount of time is impossible and unrealistic even for DBZ.

In 6 days Goku went from 8,000 to 90,000. Thats over 11X stronger in a less than a week. You and nobody else knows what methods Freeza will use to train so dont call BS on something you dont know the details about.

[Storm101]

Not really. Ceasing to be yourself is kind of the ultimate punishment. Besides there is no force in the after life that can harm Freeza. Enma who is ruler is weaker than Kaio. The only punishment he's getting is some stupid gag punishment.

It is, but at the same time, it isn't. At first it is, but then once it's done...it's done. You no longer exist. Punishment over.

Being made to sit in one location forever, no matter what it is that's being done to you, though? THAT sounds like Hell to me.

I agree both are pretty bad...but seeing how this punishment accomplishes absolutely nothing. What's the point? It's why I've always found hell to be a dumb concept. There is no learning or point, just agony. Nothing is gained from it. It's just punishment that's pointless.

I agree, which is why I like how DB reincarnates evil souls. They still don't learn anything because it simply wipes them clean, but it gives them a second chance to be a good person. Reincarnating Buu was definitely the better choice, Uub makes a pretty strong hero for the universe.

[Big Momma]

I really want to see the rest of this manga.

I agree both are pretty bad...but seeing how this punishment accomplishes absolutely nothing. What's the point? It's why I've always found hell to be a dumb concept. There is no learning or point, just agony. Nothing is gained from it. It's just punishment that's pointless.

A tad off-topic, but the point of Hell (In the eternal suffering sense) is for people to change their ways before ending up there. It's a punishment you know about beforehand, and thus have the chance to avoid.

[Black Hawk]

I'm honestly surprised at the level of my-hype-is-killed I'm seeing. Call me strange, but what we've seen of the manga has me more hyped than before and has strengthened my belief that Toriyama-sensei has something absolutely incredible going here. He's doing one of the things he does best: betraying the readers' expectations with something more-than-likely even better than our expectations. At least, that's what I wholeheartedly believe.