Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
GokuRules987 wrote:In terms of feats Friza had the best feats hands down. lifting an island, surviving a poink blank planet explosion while being heavily injured, flicking away planet vegeta which had 10x times the earth gravity with his finger and more.
fadeddreams5 wrote:I really hope Freeza beats both Vegeta and Goku, forcing the other characters to use the dragon balls to wish for someone who can stop him, resulting in the resurrection of Broly. After losing to him, Freeza, in a plot twist, can reveal that he's actually Cell, who acquired the ability to shapeshift by releasing his cells in hell and assimilating them with other fallen villains. Broly, in disbelief over how overpowered he now is, can transform into a SSJ demi-God. It's like SSJG with black aura, but it's only accessible to Broly because he is really evil. This would be amazing.
Fucking phenomenal script.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
And do you guys notice the spiky black hair next to Vegeta, must be gohan, or could it be... GMGoken it just might be GOTEN!! But probably isn't.
Spoiler:
One of these designs right? Keep hope alive
fadeddreams5 wrote:I really hope Freeza beats both Vegeta and Goku, forcing the other characters to use the dragon balls to wish for someone who can stop him, resulting in the resurrection of Broly. After losing to him, Freeza, in a plot twist, can reveal that he's actually Cell, who acquired the ability to shapeshift by releasing his cells in hell and assimilating them with other fallen villains. Broly, in disbelief over how overpowered he now is, can transform into a SSJ demi-God. It's like SSJG with black aura, but it's only accessible to Broly because he is really evil. This would be amazing.
Last edited by TheGmGoken on Fri Feb 20, 2015 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
GokuRules987 wrote:In terms of feats Friza had the best feats hands down. lifting an island, surviving a poink blank planet explosion while being heavily injured, flicking away planet vegeta which had 10x times the earth gravity with his finger and more.
Why's that relevant?
He's probably bring up those feats in correlation with how freakishly naturally tough and strong Freeza is.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
fadeddreams5 wrote:I really hope Freeza beats both Vegeta and Goku, forcing the other characters to use the dragon balls to wish for someone who can stop him, resulting in the resurrection of Broly. After losing to him, Freeza, in a plot twist, can reveal that he's actually Cell, who acquired the ability to shapeshift by releasing his cells in hell and assimilating them with other fallen villains. Broly, in disbelief over how overpowered he now is, can transform into a SSJ demi-God. It's like SSJG with black aura, but it's only accessible to Broly because he is really evil. This would be amazing.
And this ridiculous character again... But nothing Janemba can't deal with. Show them what you can do, Janem-san!
fadeddreams5 wrote:I really hope Freeza beats both Vegeta and Goku, forcing the other characters to use the dragon balls to wish for someone who can stop him, resulting in the resurrection of Broly. After losing to him, Freeza, in a plot twist, can reveal that he's actually Cell, who acquired the ability to shapeshift by releasing his cells in hell and assimilating them with other fallen villains. Broly, in disbelief over how overpowered he now is, can transform into a SSJ demi-God. It's like SSJG with black aura, but it's only accessible to Broly because he is really evil. This would be amazing.
Really amazing dude, for real... For me if a villian had to come back that would be Broly
fadeddreams5 wrote:I really hope Freeza beats both Vegeta and Goku, forcing the other characters to use the dragon balls to wish for someone who can stop him, resulting in the resurrection of Broly. After losing to him, Freeza, in a plot twist, can reveal that he's actually Cell, who acquired the ability to shapeshift by releasing his cells in hell and assimilating them with other fallen villains. Broly, in disbelief over how overpowered he now is, can transform into a SSJ demi-God. It's like SSJG with black aura, but it's only accessible to Broly because he is really evil. This would be amazing.
Really amazing dude, for real... For me if a villian had to come back that would be Broly
So, thinking about this thing that I've seen buzzing around that the reason Freeza gets brought back in chunks, rather than just outright being wished back with his body in tact, is because he was evil...is...is that plausible? Cuz I'm sitting here trying to think about how it couldn't be, but for the life of me, I can't think of another time we've had someone evil wished back to life. Not even in movies (which wouldn't really count towards this film anyway). Villains have gotten to wish for eternal youth (Daimao and Slug), immortality (Garlic Jr.), freeing someone from entrapment (Dr. Kochin for Dr. Wheelo), but nowhere can I think of where someone evil was revived. Am I forgetting something?
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fadeddreams5 wrote: In just one chapter of FoF, we've received so many plot holes/inconsistencies, it's kind of embarrassing. I'm still looking forward to the movie though.
Now, I'm curious... Can you please note those many plot holes/inconsistencies?
"Suddenly, Freeza awakens with a look of rage. The ship trembles, and all scouters break except for Tagoma’s and Sorbet’s"
This part seems so epic, Freeza-sama!!
But why Shenlong only grants one wish?! Pilaf should still have a chance to ask his wish with the other two.
In BOG, they only need one and he was scared of Beerus so I take that.
Gyt Kaliba wrote:So, thinking about this thing that I've seen buzzing around that the reason Freeza gets brought back in chunks, rather than just outright being wished back with his body in tact, is because he was evil...is...is that plausible? Cuz I'm sitting here trying to think about how it couldn't be, but for the life of me, I can't think of another time we've had someone evil wished back to life. Not even in movies (which wouldn't really count towards this film anyway). Villains have gotten to wish for eternal youth (Daimao and Slug), immortality (Garlic Jr.), freeing someone from entrapment (Dr. Kochin for Dr. Wheelo), but nowhere can I think of where someone evil was revived. Am I forgetting something?
Nor Porunga nor Shenlong are forced to revive people with their bodies intact. I remember that Porunga said he rebuilt Kuririn's body as a bonus, which means he couldn't be revived otherwise. Shenlong, however, had no obligation to rebuild Freeza's body. Maybe because he's evil, or maybe because, unlike the rest of the crew, he hasn't met Tagoma or Sorbet before and, as such, doesn't have any emotional connection to them or Freeza to do them such a favour.
fadeddreams5 wrote:I really hope Freeza beats both Vegeta and Goku, forcing the other characters to use the dragon balls to wish for someone who can stop him, resulting in the resurrection of Broly. After losing to him, Freeza, in a plot twist, can reveal that he's actually Cell, who acquired the ability to shapeshift by releasing his cells in hell and assimilating them with other fallen villains. Broly, in disbelief over how overpowered he now is, can transform into a SSJ demi-God. It's like SSJG with black aura, but it's only accessible to Broly because he is really evil. This would be amazing.
This idea is so fucking stupid! If Toriyama wrote this exact idea though, it's fucking genius!
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Gyt Kaliba wrote:So, thinking about this thing that I've seen buzzing around that the reason Freeza gets brought back in chunks, rather than just outright being wished back with his body in tact, is because he was evil...is...is that plausible? Cuz I'm sitting here trying to think about how it couldn't be, but for the life of me, I can't think of another time we've had someone evil wished back to life. Not even in movies (which wouldn't really count towards this film anyway). Villains have gotten to wish for eternal youth (Daimao and Slug), immortality (Garlic Jr.), freeing someone from entrapment (Dr. Kochin for Dr. Wheelo), but nowhere can I think of where someone evil was revived. Am I forgetting something?
I think that it makes sense. I might be misremembering slightly, but I seem to remember Shenlong fixing up post Namek Kuririn's body and clothes as a little extra something. So it seems like it's possible for him to add a little something extra to the wishes if he wants to, hence the reason all the people came back after Buu destroyed the Earth.
But only if he wants to. And, since Freeza is an evil jerk, Shenlong might not want to go the extra mile and reform his body.
Edit: Oops, I was wrong. It was Porunga who did that to Kuririn, not Shenlong.
Last edited by Sedorna on Fri Feb 20, 2015 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
fadeddreams5 wrote:I really hope Freeza beats both Vegeta and Goku, forcing the other characters to use the dragon balls to wish for someone who can stop him, resulting in the resurrection of Broly. After losing to him, Freeza, in a plot twist, can reveal that he's actually Cell, who acquired the ability to shapeshift by releasing his cells in hell and assimilating them with other fallen villains. Broly, in disbelief over how overpowered he now is, can transform into a SSJ demi-God. It's like SSJG with black aura, but it's only accessible to Broly because he is really evil. This would be amazing.
This idea is so fucking stupid! If Toriyama wrote this exact idea though, it's fucking genius!.
I don't see where this is coming from?
Both Battle of Gods and this movie (or what we know of it so far) got mixed reception by the fans. I see really no need for these types of comments when this movie is already getting criticized as heavily as it is here, the biggest DB fansite there is. And being one of the people who's criticizing it as well, I don't see what these typesof posts contribute to the discussion when anything that Toriyama has done recently in regards to Dragon Ball has either gotten mixed reception (BoG, FnF) or bad (DB Minus).
fadeddreams5 wrote:I really hope Freeza beats both Vegeta and Goku, forcing the other characters to use the dragon balls to wish for someone who can stop him, resulting in the resurrection of Broly. After losing to him, Freeza, in a plot twist, can reveal that he's actually Cell, who acquired the ability to shapeshift by releasing his cells in hell and assimilating them with other fallen villains. Broly, in disbelief over how overpowered he now is, can transform into a SSJ demi-God. It's like SSJG with black aura, but it's only accessible to Broly because he is really evil. This would be amazing.
This idea is so fucking stupid! If Toriyama wrote this exact idea though, it's fucking genius!.
I don't see where this is coming from?
Both Battle of Gods and this movie (or what we know of it so far) got mixed reception by the fans. I see really no need for these types of comments when this movie is already getting criticized as heavily as it is here, the biggest DB fansite there is. And being one of the people who's criticizing it as well, I don't see what these typesof posts contribute to the discussion when anything that Toriyama has done recently in regards to Dragon Ball has either gotten mixed reception (BoG, FnF) or bad (DB Minus).
Battle of Gods only got mixed response on here and negative in Dbzf. Everywhere else was positive. So far the movie is only getting heat from here. Everywhere else I've been is a positive response. Also this is NOT the biggest DB website. It's the most used for sources but hardly biggest fan site.
It was not positive everywhere else. All the forums I go to, which are not limited to Dragon Ball only, it got negative reception in most of the cases, with some others thing it's average, and only a select few really enjoying it. The same for Fukkatsu no F.
And I didn't mean biggest in terms of members. Biggest as in it is home to some of the most knowledgeable and passionate fans of the series.
Just wanted to say a quick thank you to SaiyaJedi and Kanzenshuu for the summary!
I really enjoyed it! Toriyama has remembered a lot of little details and it makes the story so far feel like it could (mostly) fit into the manga continuity - I'm surprised he remembers King Cold at all! Or the fact that Freeza got cut up (heck, they're finally referencing Future Trunks as being the killer). In terms of Freeza being brought back in a sliced-and-diced state, don't forget that when they revived Kuririn, Porunga had to put his body back together because it was blown up. Perhaps large scale wishes 'Bring back everyone XXX' don't have this limitation? Things aren't usually too straight forward with the Dragon Balls haha.
If it was on the level of fanfiction, I'm pretty sure it would follow the lines of a Toei film during the series run. Using Movie 5 as a basis, Freeza would be revived whole in his 4th form, reveal that he's got some magical 5th form all of a sudden (some type of power up that doesn't take up much time to explain), and then the characters would fight for the rest of the film. I am very glad to see that Fukkatsu no F has a lot more to it.
I'm pretty confident that most concerns will be addressed by the film.
