Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection 'F'"

[sintzu]

His point is Vegeta goes through the same lessons over and over again.

And he admitted that at the end of the Buu arc which is why he isn't the same person any more.

[sintzu]

I believe END of Cell games Vegeta - Boo Arc Vegeta would defend Earth anytime.

The same way he did in BOG ?

[TheGmGoken]

I believe END of Cell games Vegeta - Boo Arc Vegeta would defend Earth anytime.

The same way he did in BOG ?
And he admitted that at the end of the Buu arc which is why he isn't the same person any more.

He went through the same stuff in BoG. And yes Vegeta would throw away his pride to protect. Especially if Beerus was there. Vegeta threw his pride away many times.

[fadeddreams5]

So you're telling me I should praise Toriyama and accept his work because it's his decision to make Gohan a generic background fighter?

Besides, he liked to train as a kid.

If that's what it takes to make a good story then yes.

Kids change.

Him being a generic background fighter does nothing to progress the story. He could easily be replaced by Yamcha or Buu, and it'd be the same thing.

[sintzu]

Vegeta threw his pride away many times.

True but there's no way Cell arc Vegeta would sing and dance for earth's sake.

[sintzu]

Him being a generic background fighter does nothing to progress the story.

Maybe not his story but the overall story is moving just fine.

[TheGmGoken]

Vegeta threw his pride away many times.

True but there's no way Cell arc Vegeta would sing and dance for earth's sake.

I said END OF CELL ARC. I strongly believe if put in the position he would do it.

[dbzfan7]

I believe END of Cell games Vegeta - Boo Arc Vegeta would defend Earth anytime.

The same way he did in BOG ?
And he admitted that at the end of the Buu arc which is why he isn't the same person any more.

He went through the same stuff in BoG. And yes Vegeta would throw away his pride to protect. Especially if Beerus was there. Vegeta threw his pride away many times.

Pretty much...admits Goku is number 1 and ends the rivalry....only to go right back to "I surpassed you Kakarotto" again...He cared for family at the end of Cell, then had to re-care for them for Boo again. Hell counting the end of the manga in the newer ending, he says it again.

[Hugo Boss]

It would be interesting if Gohan tries to become a Super Saiyan and becomes Ultimate instead. Then, he would realize he doesn't need to put so much effort to beat those minions, like in Janemba's movie.

[dbzfan7]

This time, everyone will have to to turn out in full-force if we want to win against Freeza’s 1000-strong army!

He's saying everyone will need to be at full power if they want to win. Nowhere does he mention anything about protecting the earth in that comment.

He's saying that because it's the typical shounen thing to say when hyping up a new story. There is no "In-Universe" explanation for this, it's literally a marketing phrase to get the kiddies hyped up.

He's saying they actually need to be at full power to handle mooks Roshi can apparently defeat. It's literally the equivalent of The Z fighters vs 1000 Saibamen, only weaker.

No it doesn't. Because if the soldiers just wanted to kill the Earthlings, it would take a fraction of a second for one of them to just fire a single non-compressed blast at the ground to wipe out all life on the planet that couldn't survive the resulting apocalyptic event.

Of course they could do that ,but then there would be no plot and the movie would end quickly.

Or they could...you know...put some thought into what they do. It's really not hard to. Lot's of ways to make their ideas work if they tried to put effort into that.

It would be interesting if Gohan tries to become a Super Saiyan and becomes Ultimate instead. Then, he would realize he doesn't need to put so much effort to beat those minions, like in Janemba's movie.

Almost forgot about that . Yeah they handled everything fine in Fusion Reborn, and didn't have to try and make it look like they'd have a hard time. Ironically Freeza is one shot material for Gohan there.

[lord turbo]

...no. You realize that going Super Saiyan wastes energy, right? He may have gone Super Saiyan self-consciously, but going Super Saiyan, if it's the exact same as base form as you say, would have done nothing but make Goku weaker, as at that point the form is just draining energy from him. But no, we see Goku kicking Beerus' ass hardcore. And go to where Beerus fires that Death Ball at him. As a Super Saiyan, he's able to somewhat hold it back. However, when he is then reverted to base form, he cannot. And then, if all 3 (base, ssj and ssjg) are the same, then why did Goku have any trouble at all with that Death Ball? Why did Goku /need/ to go SSJG? Obviously because SSJG >/= SSJ(after God boost) > Base(after God boost).
You would be correct in thinking that yes, the God form did massively improve Goku's base form. But it didn't make Goku "mystic", and no where does it say he does.

I realize going SSJ waste no energy for Goku. Why would turning SSJ subconsciously have made Goku weaker? You are also exaggerating, Goku was barely holding his own against Beerus. I think you need to rewatch that scene because Goku was being overwhelmed by Beerus ki ball to the point he himself stated the difference between them is too huge. When he reverts back to base form that is because Beerus fired more ki into his attack making it much stronger which is why Goku faltered. points is from losing SSJG, to reverting to base form, then SSJ there is zero change in Goku's performance and power level against Beerus. Don't say he wouldn't notice since earlier he knew how much power at any given time he was using against Beerus such as the 80% his full power comment. Goku would notice if his power suddenly decrease from losing SSJG or increase from using SSJ.

Again, he has to literally be told by Beerus he lost SSJG much to Goku's amazement, as far as he was concerned he was still fighting at SSJG level, therefore there was no change in his power level from base to SSJ to SSJG. If there was he would have noticed. This could change in RoF, but for the time being according to the end of BoGs, using SSJ isn't any different from using base or SSJG form now since he absorbed the realm of SSJG into his body and made it his own according to Toriyama and the movie itself.

You're taking the line to seriously.... Its just a Toriyama/Staff slap to everyone than thinks he couldn't do it anymore.

Most probably don't THINK he can't but find it bullshit that he can. Don't get those confused. I also disagree about the staff part. Two years ago the fans made them correct Gohan to Mystic. They could have easily said the same thing.

Oh well. Not a big deal to me.

This basically, the whole thing with Gohan is he SSJ or is he Ultimate turned into a mess the moment he turned SSJ in GT, then when BoGs came out the issue was baffling when he turned SSJ and was SSJ in preview screenshots from the movie in magazines and trailer itself. Some fan made his vocal complaints be heard and the staff pulled a Paikuhan incident and simply recolored SSJ Gohan as his base/Ultimate form. That's all fine and dandy, but then this line in RoF comes up. What's the point of recoloring SSJ Gohan Ultimate/base form if he could always turn SSJ? What's the point of recoloring SSJ Gohan if they still keep him turning SSJ at the end for the god ritual? What's the point of this line if he already turned SSJ in the previous movie?

Lets go back to the very reason why all fans across the worlds always harp on Toriyama and staff when ever they see SSJ Gohan. This all goes back to the Ultimate ritual in the manga. half way during the training Gohan gets angry and turns into a half SSJ halfway Ultimate stare at Elder Kaioshin. Here you can see his base form hair spikes up into his SSJ form, but its still black, his eyes are SSJ color by in the full outline and green eyes look similar to the in-between base and ssj form he had against Kibito. Gohan calms down and his hair and eyes revert back to their base form look. From here we can see the Ultimate ritual is slowly replacing SSJ with the Ultimate state which explains that in-between SSJ and Ultimate/base form look. After the training is over Gohan asks Elder Kaioshin how does he activate Ultimate.

He tells him to turn Ultimate the same way you would SSJ. All translations of this scene in different languages come to the same conclusion, even the Funimation English dub. Gohan activates Ultimate like he does SSJ and becomes Ultimate instead of SSJ. No one had a problem with this, except maybe the fans wondering if he could still use SSJ, but probably not if they understood what Elder Kaioshin said. All is well in the world until GT, then BoGs, and now RoF reopens old wounds again. No one technically has a problem with Gohan using SSJ, the problem is what's the reason why he can do it? It was unexplained in GT and BoGs, and still is in RoF. Wondering if he can still turn SSJ or not does not explain why he can turn SSJ. It just brings to attention the complaints fans have had about it over the years.

That line Gohan says in RoF actually proves fans theories, Gohan wouldn't wonder if he can turn SSJ if there wasn't something that was preventing it post Ultimate ritual. The thing is Gohan shouldn't be able to turn SSJ. Turning SSJ activates the Ultimate state. You can't be both at the same time as one replaces the other, but at this point who cares anymore, let Toriyama have his inconsistent cake and eat it.

Watch out, it could also be a hint that his extended potential has been lost: he could actually imply "Okay, I lost the Elder Kai's extended powers... But let's see, at least I think I can still turn into a Super Saiyan". That could be why he says "let's see... I think I can still become a Super Saiyan."

If its along those lines then everyone should be happy, I know I would be.

Well if there are 1000 enemy soldiers flying around wrecking havoc on Earth, Gohan can't be everywhere dealing with each and everyone of them. I don't see a problem with this line. More help, with Piccolo and the other Z Fighters (hopefully Krillin, Trunks and co.) is welcome to stop them before Earthlings are hurt or killed.

1000 enemies flying around whose power levels are weaker than Raditz's... Son Gohan killed Cell Juniors with one blow...
It is safe to say Son Gohan can be everywhere going by these facts. It is not the quantity of enemies, it is how he described them... "Strong".

Cell Juniors were all in one place in the middle of the desert. Freeza's army judging from the leaked pages look like they'll spread everywhere they can and are obviously out to destroy cities and kill people rather than stay in the middle of a desert. Obviously Gohan can kill 1000 of them, but some help is always welcome to do it faster. Remember we are talking about the guy who couldn't find his battle dougi in his own house.

You remember that scene in the anime when Vegeta threw that Dragon Ball miles away and the color went monotone and in slow motion to represent Burter's speed in comparison to Vegeta, Gohan, and Kuririn. Multiply that a million fold and you got this scene with Gohan vs. a bunch of Raditz tier and lower people from Freeza's army. I think that's the point that poster was trying to say. Gohan should able to wave his hands and those guys disappear in a blinding flash of light similar to how Cell disposed of the military sent after him.

[Dyno]

You remember that scene in the anime when Vegeta threw that Dragon Ball miles away and the color went monotone and in slow motion to represent Burter's speed in comparison to Vegeta, Gohan, and Kuririn. Multiply that a million fold and you got this scene with Gohan vs. a bunch of Raditz tier and lower people from Freeza's army. I think that's the point that poster was trying to say. Gohan should able to wave his hands and those guys disappear in a blinding flash of light similar to how Cell disposed of the military sent after him.

Exactly. Finally someone got it. Son Gohan can, by all means, be everywhere when fighting against a dozen of Raditz. Gotenks and Son Gohan (maybe Piccolo) surpass light's speed by that time. A hundred of soldiers are nothing at this point in history. Gosh, even Bardock passed through all of them with NO. PROBLEM. AT. ALL. (And it is one of the reasons that makes Bardock epic ).

[Kakarot9001]

Honestly, I don't think Toriyama should make anything DBZ-related on his own without a good editor nagging him. I love the guy for giving us this great franchise, but he seems to just want to make his own thing without any regard to the source material. But that's another story.

The majority of fans disliked Gohan's pussification after the Cell saga. He finally became a badass against Buu, but then the spotlight was taken away from him in favor of Goku. Fast forward to EoZ, and he's a dork. Fast forward to GT, and he's an even bigger dork who can't go mystic.

Nobody likes this. I can generalize that too. I doubt anyone in this fanbase likes this Gohan more than the confident badass who took on Buu, or the kid who defeated Cell. So you're telling me I should praise Toriyama and accept his work because it's his decision to make Gohan a generic background fighter?
Only because Toriyama fucked over his character after the Cell Games. It's the opposite of how he was presented as a child. He started out terrified of fighting. He later fought to protect. Then, he hesitated because he didn't want to be the one to kill someone in a pointless tournament. But finally, he snapped into reality and surpassed his father. After the sacrifice of Goku, Gohan should have actually become MORE of a fighter because Goku was not around to protect everyone (including Gohan) anymore. THAT would have been more in-character after that saga.

Besides, he liked to train as a kid. Chi Chi nagged him to study, but he never did it voluntarily. If anything, he was out of character during the entire Buu and Great Saiyaman thing. -.-

You're absotely right but Gohan never liked to fight but whatever, Toriyama could keep him at his best I hated how he was merely defetead by that Beerus thing, just no... He was the best in the Earth at time, they should changed the scene... Could be Videl to be slapped instead of Bulma and Gohan to get really angry and attacking Beerus at his best it would fix one of the biggest flaws of BoG

[fadeddreams5]

Bardock is only able to kill thousands of soldiers at once when he hears his theme playing in the background. Once it stops, he gets manhandled by the Dodorias of the world...

[dbzfan7]

You're absotely right but Gohan never liked to fight but whatever

Gohan training with Piccolo and changing
Gohan training with Goku and Piccolo
Gohan training with Goku in ROSAT
Gohan as Saiyaman
Gohan training with Goten
Gohan wanting to fight Dabura when he could have passed

All say Hi.

[Dayspring]

If it can take Vegeta and Nappa over two years to clear a planet of aliens who are nowhere near as strong as them, then it makes sense for someone of even Gohan's level to struggle to take on 1,000 aliens. Can they hurt him? No. Does he risk one of them killing some humans before he's done defeating them all? Yes - a person with a BP of 260 can level a human metropolis. We see this in the manga (Piccolo Daimao).

[Dyno]

Bardock is only able to kill thousands of soldiers at once when he hears his theme playing in the background. Once it stops, he gets manhandled by the Dodorias of the world...

Fairly enough. Though that scene became "filler", actually. At least, Bardock going to face Freeza is still considered.

[Kakarot9001]

You're absotely right but Gohan never liked to fight but whatever

1- Gohan training with Piccolo and changing
2- Gohan training with Goku and Piccolo
3- Gohan training with Goku in ROSAT
4- Gohan as Saiyaman
5- Gohan training with Goten
6- Gohan wanting to fight Dabura when he could have passed

All say Hi.

1- He was forced by Piccolo to be trained
2/3 - He is not training because he likes, he is training because he need to get stronger to PROTECT the Earth
4- Just playing a Super Hero doesn't mean he do really like fights, he just want to PROTECT people from the criminals
5 - Gohan only entered in Tenkaichi Budokai because Videl was threatening him and only got excited to train because his dad would be back from the dead JUST that day
6 - He just want to impress his dad by showing how "strong" he had become, unfortunately it was backfired

Another thing, If Gohan really likes to fight as you say why he didn't register in Tenkaichi Budokai in EoZ?

[Kakarot9001]

Bardock is only able to kill thousands of soldiers at once when he hears his theme playing in the background. Once it stops, he gets manhandled by the Dodorias of the world...

Fairly enough. Though that scene became "filler", actually. At least, Bardock going to face Freeza is still considered.

How this scene is filler? I though the whole TV Special was canon

[dbzfan7]

You're absotely right but Gohan never liked to fight but whatever

1- Gohan training with Piccolo and changing
2- Gohan training with Goku and Piccolo
3- Gohan training with Goku in ROSAT
4- Gohan as Saiyaman
5- Gohan training with Goten
6- Gohan wanting to fight Dabura when he could have passed

All say Hi.

1- He was forced by Piccolo to be trained
2/3 - He is not training because he likes, he is training because he need to get stronger to PROTECT the Earth
4- Just playing a Super Hero doesn't mean he do really like to fights, he just want to PROTECT people from the criminals
5 - Gohan only entered in Tenkaichi Budokai because Videl was threatening him and only got excited to train because his dad would be back from the dead JUST that day
6 - He just want to impress his dad by showing how "strong" he had become, unfortunately it was backfired

Another thing, If Gohan really likes to fight as you say why he didn't register in Tenkaichi Budokai in EoZ?

1. Which he grew to like with Piccolo

2/3. Which he didn't show any displeasure with.

4. He enjoys playing super hero and fighting bad guys. He protects people by warding off criminals. Do you believe he just talks them to stopping. Almost always does he have to fight.

5. He never had to train for it. He wanted to. He didn't get upset training with Goten, he enjoyed it.

6. No he wanted to fight Dabura. Everyone had a turn fighting and he wanted to fight too. He never says he wants to impress his dad, if anything he'd be a moron for thinking that since he hasn't been training. He admits he's slacked off so if anything he's showing he got worse.

Also he gets mad early in the Cyborg saga that he didn't want his training to go to waste.

Because there's a difference between a fighting addict like Goku and Vegeta, and just treating fighting like a past time. Gohan doesn't dislike fighting, it's just not his main interest. He enjoys studying and doing other things more. I enjoy bike riding, but it's not something I commit to or enjoy that much. I enjoy other things more. He doesn't dislike fighting, he just enjoys doing other things more. Same with Goten and Trunks when they're adults. They don't dislike fighting, they just enjoy other earth hobbies a lot more.