Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection 'F'"

[ScholarGohan]

[Big Momma]

Maybe... Maybe he's turning over the leaf in the 2017 Dragon Ball Z movie?! Imagine Freeza having held a grudge against the Saiyans, when they get in the pinch, Freeza will interfere to save them? That may be the start of their rivalry.

Oh god no, that'd be an horrendous idea.

I don't really see Freeza saving them (from what...?!), but I do think it's more likely that, rather than being killed, he'll just be "defeated"...but after that, I dunno what could happen.

[dbgtFO]

As I said back when Freeza was first revealed, he's going to become a good guy totally explaining Neko Majin Z

Huge speculation incoming!
Given Toriyama's liking for Superman and his origin, I predict that the movie will end in a similar way to how Justice League Unlimited ended given how much it mirrors those final episodes so far:
Darkseid, Superman's worst enemy, is revived and he's even stronger than he was the last time around and immediately brings his fractious army under control and sets out to attack Earth with all his men. Lex Luthor goes to warn Superman and the JL and they agree to work together to fight against the incoming invasion.
A tough battle ensues and the main members of the League and Luthor gets to face off against Darkseid, whereas the supporting cast fights the army.
Superman reveals his full power, but is unable to defeat Darkseid. Lex Luthor having been to another realm arrives on the scene and offers Darkseid "The anti-life-equation" and they depart to another realm or something ending the battle.

I could see something like that happen with Freeza getting offered another universe by Whis or something after everyone has failed to defeat him and then they depart with Freeza possibly becoming God of Destruction in another universe.
I think Whis is training Goku and Vegeta, because he is aware of Freeza being revived and knows that he'll be a tought opponent and so wants to test them to see who will be the next God of Destruction. Goku goes first and fails, then Vegeta gives it a try and runs Freeza really close, but Freeza still wins and as he's about to finish it Whis arrives and offers the position to him. I think that's what will happen given Nakao's alluding to Freeza surviving.

When I look at it this also reminds me of the first avenger movie, where the villain invades Earth with a huge army.
The Dragon Ball version of:
Loki: "I have an army!"
Tony Stark: "We have a hulk."
..couldn't be more fitting:

Spoiler:

Oh and I think Goten and Trunks will be killed or kidnapped and the Pilaf Gang witnessed it and Mai is the person to inform Bulma about Freeza like others have speculated.

[freezamite]

We actually do have official numbers for the SSJ multipliers up to 3. Do you not follow them Freezamite?

You mean those "official" numbers taken from the Daizenshuu? The same ones even Toriyama had to explain in an interview that didn't represent what he had drawn on the manga?

Well that's... new. Quite curious what makes him think that, if this is indeed the case.

It's the case but I don't think this is the place to do it. If you're that curious I can explain why I think this through private messages! XD

See I find they actually do fit, especially when we have a kaio-Ken x 20 just getting to Freezas 50%, a 50 x increase works really well. Kaio Ken definitely becomes outdone by SSJ in power alone. It is getting off topic now though

Well, they would fit if it wasn't for the fact that Freezer is nearly killed by the Genkidama. Since the Genkidama weakens him a lot, his 50% pre-Genkidama and his 50% post-Genkidama can't be compared in terms of strength. Both are 50% of Freezer's maximum capacity but KKx20 Goku would have killed 50% Freezer post Genkidama with a single hit. As you've said this is a bit off-topic here, but x50 for a basic SSJ... I just can't see it (not only considering the injuries Freezer had, but also how well he managed to fight against Goku SSJ even being injured wich would have been impossible if the basic SSJ increase would have been of 50x).

The 3x-10x given directly by Toriyama fits perfectly with what was drawn on the manga and it's what I always thought makes more sense!

[vegitot]

Why has Vegeta never reached SSJ3?

He could but won't probably for the same reason he wouldn't use Ussj against Cell.

SSJ3 is on different league.
Goku goes SSJ3 but never goes USSJ.So does Gotenks.
Even if Vegeta has godki in this movie,he still can't reach SSJ3
BTW,i'd like to see Goku fuses with Vegeta in order to fight against Whis and Whis causes them to defuse.That will be interesting

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Anyone else feel like Toriyama forgot that Freeza's "4th" form is supposed to be his true form? The one he was born in, with the previous three being transformations he created to restrict his power?

In addition to the whole currently unexplained not-a-cloud-spirit-has-body-in-hell-revived-in-chunks potential inconsistency thing that I really don't want to get into again right now, Freeza's body being restored/recreated/whatever into his "1st" form while in the new healing tank is a bit of an "EH?" moment for me as well.

[Saiga]

Anyone else feel like Toriyama forgot that Freeza's "4th" form is supposed to be his true form? The one he was born in, with the previous three being transformations he created to restrict his power?

In addition to the whole currently unexplained not-a-cloud-spirit-has-body-in-hell-revived-in-chunks potential inconsistency thing that I really don't want to get into again right now, Freeza's body being restored/recreated/whatever into his "1st" form while in the new healing tank is a bit of an "EH?" moment for me as well.

I was wondering about that as well, and not just because that's not his true form. It's just weird in any case that he wasn't restored in the form his pieces were in, regardless of whether it was his true form or not.

I'd expect pieces of 2nd form Freeza to be regenerated into 2nd form Freeza, for example. Although I guess if the restricted forms were "removed" by the process that restores him it would also make sense.

[sintzu]

SSJ3 is on different league.
Goku goes SSJ3 but never goes USSJ.So does Gotenks.

Even if Vegeta has godki in this movie,he still can't reach SSJ3

BTW,i'd like to see Goku fuses with Vegeta in order to fight against Whis and Whis causes them to defuse.That will be interesting

What I meant is he can but won't due to it's drawbacks similar to him not going Ussj against Cell even though he could.

With how powerful he was in the last movie it's safe to say he can at this point.

If this movie ends with Vegeta vs Freeza then we'll probably see Gogeta again in the next movie.

[vegitot]

SSJ3 is on different league.
Goku goes SSJ3 but never goes USSJ.So does Gotenks.

Even if Vegeta has godki in this movie,he still can't reach SSJ3

BTW,i'd like to see Goku fuses with Vegeta in order to fight against Whis and Whis causes them to defuse.That will be interesting

What I meant is he can but won't due to it's drawbacks similar to him not going Ussj against Cell even though he could.

With how powerful he was in the last movie it's safe to say he can at this point.

If this movie ends with Vegeta vs Freeza then we'll probably see Gogeta again in the next movie.

Vegeta doesn't have SSJ3 form. There is nothing to proof he can go. Even if he has godki,he still doesn't have SSJ3.
Also,if neither Goku nor Vegeta can defeat Frieza,they can fuse.Vegeta doesn't care too much about his pride like he used to,Goku is free=>Gogeta/Vegito is the best choice

[TheDevilsCorpse]

I was wondering about that as well, and not just because that's not his true form. It's just weird in any case that he wasn't restored in the form his pieces were in, regardless of whether it was his true form or not.

I'd expect pieces of 2nd form Freeza to be regenerated into 2nd form Freeza, for example. Although I guess if the restricted forms were "removed" by the process that restores him it would also make sense.

That's kinda what I'm getting at. The only reason I'm emphasizing his true form is because that's that one he was last in. He was injured in it, turned into a cyborg while in it, and now restored to life in it...albeit in pieces.

I kind of assumed that they might have removed his cybernetic enhancements and then thrown the parts into the tank to have them merge and restore the rest of his true body. Then, if he wanted to, he could recreate his suppressed forms (or at least the most important one) so that he doesn't lose control before he finishes his training or something. But the manga adaptation at least clearly shows his his entire body reforming in that "1st" form (armor and all), which I can't really seem to wrap my head around when he was in his true form last we saw of him and that even if they tried to clone him from the pieces they gather and transfer his soul or something weird like that, I imagine it would still be his true form that grows... I dunno.

[sintzu]

Vegeta doesn't have SSJ3 form.There is nothing to proof he can go.

Also,if neither Goku nor Vegeta can defeat Freeza,they can fuse.

He was powerful enough in the last movie so that's something and in terms of not using it we know from the Cell arc that he won't use a form that'll hurt him during battle so it makes sense that he didn't use it against Beerus.

In terms of fusion I think they'll leave it for the next movie and have this one focused on Vegeta cause if they use it now not only would not make sense but it'll leave them with nothing left for the next movie.

[vegitot]

Vegeta doesn't have SSJ3 form.There is nothing to proof he can go.

Also,if neither Goku nor Vegeta can defeat Freeza,they can fuse.

He was powerful enough in the last movie so that's something and in terms of not using it we know from the Cell arc that he won't use a form that'll hurt him during battle so it makes sense that he didn't use it against Beerus.

In terms of fusion I think they'll leave it for the next movie and have this one focused on Vegeta cause if they use it now not only would not make sense but it'll leave them with nothing left for the next movie.

USSJ is too slow,wastes much energy.
SSJ3 wastes much energy but is very fast,strong. Goku didn't use USSJ but used SSJ3.

[mAcChaos]

I was wondering about that as well, and not just because that's not his true form. It's just weird in any case that he wasn't restored in the form his pieces were in, regardless of whether it was his true form or not.

I'd expect pieces of 2nd form Freeza to be regenerated into 2nd form Freeza, for example. Although I guess if the restricted forms were "removed" by the process that restores him it would also make sense.

That's kinda what I'm getting at. The only reason I'm emphasizing his true form is because that's that one he was last in. He was injured in it, turned into a cyborg while in it, and now restored to life in it...albeit in pieces.

I kind of assumed that they might have removed his cybernetic enhancements and then thrown the parts into the tank to have them merge and restore the rest of his true body. Then, if he wanted to, he could recreate his suppressed forms (or at least the most important one) so that he doesn't lose control before he finishes his training or something. But the manga adaptation at least clearly shows his his entire body reforming in that "1st" form (armor and all), which I can't really seem to wrap my head around when he was in his true form last we saw of him and that even if they tried to clone him from the pieces they gather and transfer his soul or something weird like that, I imagine it would still be his true form that grows... I dunno.

That just made me realize something: we know that him transforming heals his injuries. When he transformed he regrew his tail. Maybe it worked the other way around for him going down into first form.

Plus he probably just wanted back in his easiest to control form again.

Well, they would fit if it wasn't for the fact that Freezer is nearly killed by the Genkidama. Since the Genkidama weakens him a lot, his 50% pre-Genkidama and his 50% post-Genkidama can't be compared in terms of strength. Both are 50% of Freezer's maximum capacity but KKx20 Goku would have killed 50% Freezer post Genkidama with a single hit. As you've said this is a bit off-topic here, but x50 for a basic SSJ... I just can't see it (not only considering the injuries Freezer had, but also how well he managed to fight against Goku SSJ even being injured wich would have been impossible if the basic SSJ increase would have been of 50x).

The 3x-10x given directly by Toriyama fits perfectly with what was drawn on the manga and it's what I always thought makes more sense!

How do you know he was weakened that much though? He seemed fine, just shaken.

[sintzu]

Goku didn't use USSJ but used SSJ3.

And he almost lost the battle against Kid Buu thanks to using it.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

That just made me realize something: we know that him transforming heals his injuries. When he transformed he regrew his tail. Maybe it worked the other way around for him going down into first form.

Plus he probably just wanted back in his easiest to control form again.

I wouldn't be surprised if he wanted to transform back into the state he's most comfortable in, I just hard it hard to believe that it happens before he's even healed. If transforming into one of those lower states would heal him though, I think he would have just done that instead of becoming a cyborg in the first place...

[ScholarGohan]

http://youtu.be/9LiDXgNZO24

[freezamite]

How do you know he was weakened that much though? He seemed fine, just shaken.

Well, in DB the violence wasn't really explicit so you can't judge the extent of an injury only for how it looks, you also have to consider what is said about it. Raditz for example, I wouldn't say he seemed really injured when Gohan attacked him, but the blow was so strong that even Goku was able to immobilize him (despite Goku's injuries seemed much, much worse). So even when we don't see Raditz visibly injured, we have to believe him when he says that he can't escape Goku's hold because of the energy he lost due to Gohan's attack.

With Freezer it's more or less the same. Well, the injuries are a bit more visible (bruises all over the body, he lost part of his tail, an eye he couldn't open until much latter...), but it's Freezer saying how injured he is and how strong the attack was that confirms to us the readers he was weakened. The problem is that, at that point, we can't know how weakened he was. But latter in the story, in the Cell saga, we are given some data about the absorbed people that allow us to estimate the strength of Piccolo+Kami or Vegeta SSJ and from here it's easy to extrapolate to the strength Goku had as a SSJ.

Of course, Toriyama in an interview confirming that "50x is not what I drew in the manga, more like 3x-10x*" (not his words literally, you can look for this interview in this page. It was the one in the super exciting guide) re-confirms the validity of those numbers!

Regards!

* The 3x-10x is because of how Toriyama expalins it. Toriyama says, literally, "Goku became 10x as strong as he had been until then" but that also includes a rage boost that at the very least recovered his stamina and at the very best also increased his base state strength until its limit. This is why I give this 3x-10x range, but what's important is that at that fight Goku had 3.000.000 of units approximately as a SSJ.

[Ajay]

http://youtu.be/9LiDXgNZO24

Finally something worth talking about. I thought power levels were going to overtake this thread and slowly melt my brain.

It's always a pleasure to see Nakao as he delivers his lines as Freeza.That voice crack was amazing. A lot of that kinda thing was sorely missed in Kai. Nice to see that it's (hopefully) back.

Nozawa's attitude to the character is so hilariously charming. I'm fairly sure she called Freeza (or the costume) 'kawaii'. I'm dead.

[Avenged]

http://youtu.be/9LiDXgNZO24

Finally something worth talking about. I thought power levels were going to overtake this thread and slowly melt my brain.

Did ya miss the little behind the scenes video? Def worth talking bout.

[Dyno]

ScholarGohan is contributing more without typing a single word to this thread than these guys writing almost-no-end texts. Crazy, huh?