How much of a multiplier is SSJ4?

[Lord Beerus]

The true power of a SSJ4 has confused me so many years given how insanely inconsistent GT is. I know people will say, "Well, SSJ4 is just waayyyy stronger than SSJ3", and really that's never been good enough for me. I don't really get much involved in battle powers, so I wouldn't have extensive knowledge in that regard, but does anybody really know exactly how much stronger being SSJ4 make you? Because I could really use some answers.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

It brings a saiyan's power to it's limits or something like that. No set multiplier.

[Dyno]

It is a great number enough to keep Gogeta Super Saiyan 4 with the rightful title "One Above All". Yes... I'm looking at you... Marvel.

I had this conversation not too long before, and even though Vegeto's power is Kakarot's and Vegeta's multiplied and then the Potara earrings act by giving them some kind of "bonus", this "bonus" is not enough to reach Super Saiyan 4 multiplied.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

It brings a saiyan's power to it's limits or something like that. No set multiplier.

The same was said about SS3 before it got an official multiplier, so that basically amounts to nothing but fluff.

In short, there's nothing official. The best you can do is try and calculate it out from the battle with Bebi, but GT isn't super consistent and most of that is just going to be guesswork anyway.

[Black Hawk]

Nothing official has ever been stated, but, thinking about it mathematically, I would assume that, since Super Saiyajin 4 is essentially Ōgon/Super Ōzaru in a controllable form, its multiplier would simply be that of Ōzaru multiplied by that of Super Saiyajin, or 10 x 50 = 500 times stronger than a Saiyajin's base form. However, given Gokū's statement that Gotenks wouldn't do any good against Super Ōzaru Vegeta-Bebī, mathematically, assuming that Gotenks would be quite a bit stronger in GT than in the Bū chapters, I don't see it working too well.

Some people, for simplicity, make SSJ4 ten times stronger than SSJ3, with a multiplier of 4000x, though I don't really see how that would work, given that SSJ4 isn't a continuation of or from SSJ3.

In short, I'd say that Dragon Ball GT (as much as I absolutely love it) is too big a cluster**** of a continuation to tack a righteous, accurate multiplier onto SSJ4.

In fanmade works, though, I could see Kaboom settling on a good multiplier to go with his fanfiction when he gets to that point.

[Bullza]

If the same Oozaru multiplier would apply for Baby so that he grew 10x as powerful when he turned into a great ape then the SSJ4 multiplier would have to be greater than that as Goku went from being much weaker than Baby as a SSJ3 to a bit stronger than Oozaru Baby as a SSJ4.

But this doesn't account for the fact that Goku was weaker as a kid so it would have multiplied it more than if Goku were to use it as an adult.

[Black Hawk]

But this doesn't account for the fact that Goku was weaker as a kid so it would have multiplied it more than if Goku were to use it as an adult.

Please correct me if I'm mistaken, but it was never actually stated that Gokū lost power when he was turned back into a child, was it? The only real change in ability I recall was his inability to use the Shunkan Idō technique.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

No, Goku as a kid in GT isn't any weaker (in terms of power), confirmed by the first GT Perfect Files book.

• "His body’s strength doesn’t seem to be any different than when he was an adult, but apparently his small body has diminished his stamina."

[Black Hawk]

Gotcha. Thanks!

So, the only real change in his abilities after turning into a child were his inability to use the Shunkan Idō as well as hindered stamina, most clearly seen when he tried to maintain the SSJ3 form, correct? It's been a while since I've watched GT or looked over the Perfect Files, so I'm a bit rusty.

[Tectorman]

SSJ3 Goku was outclassed by Bebi Vegeta, so SSJ3 Goku x10 should be outclassed by Bebi Vegeta x10.

That's the thinking behind the fan shortcut of SSJ4 being Base x4000 being an inadequate explanation.

However, GT does establish one negative impact of the Oozaru form on Bebi; it made him too large to shrink back to virus form, so he ended up having to make his escape in human form.

My thinking is, if the Oozaru can inflict one negative effect on Bebi, then why can't it inflict two? Who says that Bebi Oozaru Vegeta got the full x10 multiplier? Maybe those two elements in Vegeta's body interacted poorly and the Oozaru was enough to bring Bebi up to Goku's SSJ4, but not over.

Still totally a fanmade theory, of course.

[Bullza]

He couldn't maintain it the first time as most of the power went into just trying to keep it up. I can't remember if he was able to maintain it though after they pulled out his tail.

[Tectorman]

He couldn't maintain it the first time as most of the power went into just trying to keep it up. I can't remember if he was able to maintain it though after they pulled out his tail.

It's implied that he could, mostly due to Goku powering down the second time only after Bebi pounded him (the first fight, Goku dropped out without taking a hit from Bebi). But because Bebi goes immediately to rag-dolling him, we can't say for sure.

[Kaboom]

In fanmade works, though, I could see Kaboom settling on a good multiplier to go with his fanfiction when he gets to that point.

I don't mind spoiling GTR's "multiplier" for Super Saiyan 4. It'll be the easy route of "Oozaru's boost combined with your highest Super Saiyan form's boost." So the farther you've gone with gold-haired Super Saiyan forms, the stronger Super Saiyan 4 will end up. Even at the bare minimum (500x base), it's still stronger than Super Saiyan 3, and more stable to boot.

But I know that something so straightforward and simple would never work for the original GT. Its power-scaling and fights are all over the place, with the strength ranking between characters changing seemingly at random. It's practically impossible to compare Super Saiyan 4's strength to the other forms with any sort of consistency. Considering it some sort of on-the-spot dormant power unlocking, which doesn't require anything solid or predictable, is probably the best bet.

[Black Hawk]

I don't mind spoiling GTR's "multiplier" for Super Saiyan 4. It'll be the easy route of "Oozaru's boost combined with your highest Super Saiyan form's boost." So the farther you've gone with gold-haired Super Saiyan forms, the stronger Super Saiyan 4 will end up. Even at the bare minimum (500x base), it's still stronger than Super Saiyan 3, and more stable to boot.

Nice! Looking forward to seeing SSJ4 in action in GTR!

Just out of curiosity, will the three variations of Super Saiyajin 4 differ in design, similar to MalikDBNA's Dragon Ball New Age variations?

But I know that something so straightforward and simple would never work for the original GT. Its power-scaling and fights are all over the place, with the strength ranking between characters changing seemingly at random. It's practically impossible to compare Super Saiyan 4's strength to the other forms with any sort of consistency. Considering it some sort of on-the-spot dormant power unlocking, which doesn't require anything solid or predictable, is probably the best bet.

I agree. That's really the only explanation that makes sense with what we're given. I gave up on trying to pin a multiplier on GT's SSJ4 a long time ago; GT's just too big a cluster**** (in terms of power scaling) for a set number to work for it.

[Kaboom]

Just out of curiosity, will the three variations of Super Saiyajin 4 differ in design, similar to MalikDBNA's Dragon Ball New Age variations?

Maybe a little bit. Still plenty of time to experiment with those sorts of things.

[dario03]

SSJ3 Goku was outclassed by Bebi Vegeta, so SSJ3 Goku x10 should be outclassed by Bebi Vegeta x10.

That's the thinking behind the fan shortcut of SSJ4 being Base x4000 being an inadequate explanation.

However, GT does establish one negative impact of the Oozaru form on Bebi; it made him too large to shrink back to virus form, so he ended up having to make his escape in human form.

My thinking is, if the Oozaru can inflict one negative effect on Bebi, then why can't it inflict two? Who says that Bebi Oozaru Vegeta got the full x10 multiplier? Maybe those two elements in Vegeta's body interacted poorly and the Oozaru was enough to bring Bebi up to Goku's SSJ4, but not over.

Still totally a fanmade theory, of course.

Some other things to go with that. (It has been a long time since I've seen that fight so not sure if this is covered)

1. Unnatural form of transformation (using a machine)
2. No tail (again needed the machine)
3. Bebi not at maximum. I think this is the biggest thing here because unless I'm remembering wrong didn't Bebi take a pretty big beating? Even if he did get the 10x boost wouldn't it be 10x current power not maximum?

[MDSTSSJ]

Don't forget that Kakarotto was way beyond his limits when he surpassed the Yi Xing Long powers.

The transformation of Kakarotto in SSJ4, is extremely powerful!!

[Dayspring]

Golden Oozaru seemed to be a combination of SSJ1 and Oozaru. That would be a x500 multiplier since it's the SSJ multiplier (x50) being applied to an Oozaru, which is already a 10x multiplier. Basically it's (1 x10) x50 = 500, derived from (base x Oozaru multiplier) x SSJ multiplier.

SSJ4 has the same description as SSJ3 in that it's all of the Saiyan's potential being unleashed. Considering how fundamentally different SSJ3 is to both SSJ and SSJ2, as well as the fact that you don't need SSJ2 to be able to go SSJ3 (hello Gotenks), I think SSJ3 is really more of an "SSJ Omega" transformation that merely builds on the previous form's maximum at a x4 multiplier.

My totally not official explanation would therefore get us these results:

-DBZ Movie 4's "Half-Super Saiyan" = (Goku's max kaioken strength) x4
-SSJ3 Gotenks = SSJ Gotenks x4
-SSJ3 Goku = SSJ2 Goku x4
-SSJ4 = Golden Oozaru x4

From that, SSJ4 would actually be equal to base x2000.

[Kaboom]

...the fact that you don't need SSJ2 to be able to go SSJ3 (hello Gotenks)...

Just to be picky, Gotenks IS listed as a user of SS2 in the guidebooks, and appears to be in the form for one or two panels while on his way up to SS3.

[Dayspring]

...the fact that you don't need SSJ2 to be able to go SSJ3 (hello Gotenks)...

Just to be picky, Gotenks IS listed as a user of SS2 in the guidebooks, and appears to be in the form for one or two panels while on his way up to SS3.

Pickiness appreciated. I was ignoring guidebooks, but that's made moot by failing to recall the SSJ2 panel(s).