What is the lamest thing to come out of modern DBZ?

[Hellspawn28]

Toriyama is becoming the Japanese Todd Mcfarlane if you ask me since they both love changing the past in their books .

[Lord Beerus]

Toriyama is becoming the Japanese Todd Mcfarlane if you ask me since they both love changing the past in their books .

The only past that Toriyama really changed in regards to the manga was Goku and Bulma's.

[Kakarot9001]

This Goku hateboner can only make for entertaining posts for so long. Even Vegeta eventually moved on.

I don't hate Goku. I hate Godku, the screen-hogging better-than-everyone alter-ego who replaces him in things like Movie 13, GT, and bog.

Yep... Gohan should be the hero in Movie 13 he was stronger than Goku, f*ck Dragon Fist

[ABED]

There's no denying that pre-Raditz focused solely on Goku and he always saves the day. But it was executed in a much better and more enjoyable way than GT or BoG.

In the tournaments, all characters (except Yamcha..) get to shine. Against King Piccolo, Goku beats him of course but Tenshinhan and Roshi put up a good fight and nearly stopped him. Same with Piccolo Jr, it was a tournament so a lot characters got to shine, and Kami also nearly stops him. Even though Goku saves the day, other characters do put up a good fight against the villains.

It helps that the cast was much smaller (no Vegeta, Piccolo as a Z-fighter, Gohan, etc) I guess. Red Ribbon Army was all Goku, but there weren't that many characters at that point so it didn't feel like anybody was shafted.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that even though pre-Raditz focused solely on Goku, it did so without making other characters look so incompetent.

And the Z-part of the story was mostly an ensemble, and it's the favorite part of the story for most people so it makes sense that many prefer the ensemble approach. Many people just don't find it that enjoyable to see everybody else besides Goku as useless side characters, like in GT or BoG. Different strokes and all

Neither Kami nor Tenshinhan almost stop either Piccolo. And Vegeta did shine in BoG's. He was given the spotlight, and doing well against the big bad isn't the only way to be interesting and contribute to the story.

Z isn't people's favorite because it's an "ensemble". Many think the characters are stronger, ergo the fights are better. Did Gohan, Piccolo, and Vegeta honestly do all that well against Freeza? You make it sound like BoG's wasn't well received or successful when that's just not true. Maybe I'm reading you wrong, but that's what I inferred when I read your comments.

[fadeddreams5]

Did Gohan, Piccolo, and Vegeta honestly do all that well against Freeza?

Heck yeah. Seeing Vegeta actually manage to hold his own against Frieza's first form was really hype since he was portrayed to be practically invincible throughout the arc. Then he transforms, and all hope seems lost until Piccolo comes into the picture and is capable of going head to head with a being who's BP is over a million. That was insane. But then Frieza reveals two more transformations, and the battle is set in a way that makes us beg for Goku to make it before his friends are killed. Goku finally is there, he brings the hype as always, but in a twist, even he is no match for Frieza. It takes the death of his friend to awaken the pinnacle of his powers, and a SSJ is born.

All those fights against Frieza were amazing. Characters were better used back then. Goku was barely even active.

[Hellspawn28]

Toriyama is becoming the Japanese Todd Mcfarlane if you ask me since they both love changing the past in their books .

The only past that Toriyama really changed in regards to the manga was Goku and Bulma's.

Just making a joke on how they make retcons in their own franchises that they created. At least Toriyama does not retcon things because to avoid getting his ass sued .

[ABED]

Heck yeah. Seeing Vegeta actually manage to hold his own against Freeza's first form was really hype since he was portrayed to be practically invincible throughout the arc. Then he transforms, and all hope seems lost until Piccolo comes into the picture and is capable of going head to head with a being who's BP is over a million. That was insane. But then Freeza reveals two more transformations, and the battle is set in a way that makes us beg for Goku to make it before his friends are killed. Goku finally is there, he brings the hype as always, but in a twist, even he is no match for Freeza. It takes the death of his friend to awaken the pinnacle of his powers, and a SSJ is born.

All those fights against Freeza were amazing. Characters were better used back then. Goku was barely even active.

But those "victories" are tainted by Freeza holding back A LOT. Piccolo did well for a single episode. The fights against Freeza were good, so we're just going to have to disagree about how great they were. Goku has had many better fights than the one's you mentioned. Other than Piccolo, the rest should've been destroyed easily and quickly. It made little sense that Reacoom trounces Vegeta, Vegeta gets a power up and now he's not only better than Ginyu, he's on par with Freeza even in his first form.

I disagree with your assessment about how the characters were used. That fight wasn't nearly that great when you consider how much Freeza was holding back and they were buying time until Goku came along. A character doesn't have to do well against the big bad for them to be of use. Yajirobe was used well in the Saiyan arc because he was used effectively and did what he needed to. Kuririn didn't do that much against Vegeta, but what he did made sense and had a great impact, same with Gohan. All of them were used effectively without straining the logic of the fight. If a writer have to keep finding ways to get rid of the big gun just to give his other characters something to do, it's lazy. It's one of the reasons Season 1 of Justice League got some flack. The writers kept hurting Superman in order to increase the tension, but after a while it became a crutch and all it did was make Superman look like a pansy.

Gohan and Kuririn and Vegeta were all used well for the bulk of the Freeza arc because it wasn't just about fighting the end battle. It was about the Dragon Balls and who had what and saving Dende who would have a major impact in the outcome of the story. They didn't have to fight the big bad to be used well.

[TheGmGoken]

This is very simple. Can't we count video games besides RB2 and Xenoverse?

Battle of Gods. 2nd Worst Dragonball movie. Boring plot that put me to sleep. Lame ass music that didn't stand out. Lack of character usage. Ugly designs cept for BW. Beerus ain't cool. He's boring and just plain up suck. He's EVERYTHING we've already seen before. Nothing new. Predictable finish (Goku NEVER defeats a maim villain no more? Boring Vegeta with the same plot since 1994.

Dragonball Minus - Gaffer Tape you explained it best. What a shitty story.

SOME of Toriyama interviews that either reckon something or inserted Beerus in every fucking thing.

The Goku and Vegeta story is becoming worst or equal to DBGT. Who's helpful again?

Lack of understanding for Mystic Gohan. How hard is it to NOT colour him gold. I guess since Goku stole that gimmick from him then "RIP Mystic".

[EXBadguy]

Unlike Bardock, I don't remember seeing Broli a single time in any of the 42 manga volumes.

Bardock was only in one chapter. So what? All he did was just stand in space, threw a blast, and then got vaporized. Yet people wanna use that as an excuse?

Both Broly and Bardock didn't fight in the manga yet are in the games. They are the only special/movie characters that were in Burst Limit, Raging Blast, and other games that didn't have most of the movie characters.

[Bullza]

Battle of Gods. 2nd Worst Dragonball movie.

It was the best movie by far with none of the others coming even remotely close.

[Rocketman]

Battle of Gods. 2nd Worst Dragonball movie.

It was the best movie by far with none of the others coming even remotely close.

Evolution was superior to bog.

[fadeddreams5]

Battle of Gods. 2nd Worst Dragonball movie.

It was the best movie by far with none of the others coming even remotely close.

Evolution was superior to bog.

Damn.

[TheGmGoken]

Battle of Gods. 2nd Worst Dragonball movie.

It was the best movie by far with none of the others coming even remotely close.

That's your opinion. I have my opinions and you have yours. You're not correcting me not am I having the same debate with you that we already had in 3 sperate threads. Imo BOG straight up sucked. In yours it was good. End of discussion.

[sbk]

There's no denying that pre-Raditz focused solely on Goku and he always saves the day. But it was executed in a much better and more enjoyable way than GT or BoG.

In the tournaments, all characters (except Yamcha..) get to shine. Against King Piccolo, Goku beats him of course but Tenshinhan and Roshi put up a good fight and nearly stopped him. Same with Piccolo Jr, it was a tournament so a lot characters got to shine, and Kami also nearly stops him. Even though Goku saves the day, other characters do put up a good fight against the villains.

It helps that the cast was much smaller (no Vegeta, Piccolo as a Z-fighter, Gohan, etc) I guess. Red Ribbon Army was all Goku, but there weren't that many characters at that point so it didn't feel like anybody was shafted.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that even though pre-Raditz focused solely on Goku, it did so without making other characters look so incompetent.

And the Z-part of the story was mostly an ensemble, and it's the favorite part of the story for most people so it makes sense that many prefer the ensemble approach. Many people just don't find it that enjoyable to see everybody else besides Goku as useless side characters, like in GT or BoG. Different strokes and all

Neither Kami nor Tenshinhan almost stop either Piccolo. And Vegeta did shine in BoG's. He was given the spotlight, and doing well against the big bad isn't the only way to be interesting and contribute to the story.

Z isn't people's favorite because it's an "ensemble". Many think the characters are stronger, ergo the fights are better. Did Gohan, Piccolo, and Vegeta honestly do all that well against Freeza? You make it sound like BoG's wasn't well received or successful when that's just not true. Maybe I'm reading you wrong, but that's what I inferred when I read your comments.

Sorry, I didn't mean that BoG was poorly received at all, I should've worded that part differently.

I think Vegeta/Piccolo/Gohan/etc contributed to Z's popularity, so in a way I do think the ensemble cast helped a bit.

The Freeza battle is the only part in Z that's all Goku. Even in that arc, Vegeta/Krillin/Gohan still did a lot of stuff in that arc (Krillin/Gohan befriending the Namekians, saving Dende, sabotaging Vegeta, Vegeta sabotaging Freeza, etc).

Haven't watched the Piccolo/Piccolo Jr arcs in a while so I might be off, but I remember Tien and Roshi nearly sealing him up in that rice cooker thing, and Kami nearly sealing Jr. away as well. That's a lot more impressive compared to what any non-Goku characters achieve in any post-1996 material.

Even when the focus was solely Goku (pre-Raditz, Freeza), it was done in a way that didn't make other characters look so unimpressive and useless.

It's a world of a difference compared to GT and BoG, where other characters are literally just useless fodder who are merely there to give energy to Goku Vegeta is an exception I guess

[garnetjester]

I will never understand the "loving saiyans" that everyone interpreted from DB minus though, I mean, they stuck their baby in a tube for 3 years, which isn't "loving" at all, and looking after your own kin isn't cuddly, it's instinct. There would be no point to reproducing your genetic material and then not giving a fig if it lives or dies, that's like basic biology.

I also don't get the Superman comparisons, but I don't even like Superman to begin with, so maybe that's why. I mean, it's not like DB had a super groundbreaking ultra original origin story for Goku anyway either imo.

For me, the worst recent thing was Episode of Bardock because it really made zero sense. And it was very boring in my opinion. Not that Minus was a masterpiece, I'm just "meh" about it, even though I really did enjoy the rest of Jaco a lot. I can't hate on Gine though, we have too few female characters in this universe already for me to be nitpicky about her.

[dbzfan7]

Lack of understanding for Mystic Gohan. How hard is it to NOT colour him gold. I guess since Goku stole that gimmick from him then "RIP Mystic".

I call him Ultimate Goku...cause that's essentially what he seems to be now..

[shinmaru]

The Animation and the lame sound effects you hear when SonGoku is fighting Birus in BOG. I hope they never use those sound effects again.

[Low Tone G]

Lack of understanding for Mystic Gohan. How hard is it to NOT colour him gold. I guess since Goku stole that gimmick from him then "RIP Mystic".

I call him Ultimate Goku...cause that's essentially what he seems to be now..

I totally agree.

For me, the lamest things are:

1. Bardock to care about his children.

2. Gine to not resemble Raditz a bit.

3. BOG's music and poor animation other than battle scenes.

4. Beerus to be the one to seal Old Kai, I would rather have accepted an earlier God of Destruction to do that.

5. Tights to be that older than Bulma.

6. Freeza to have a body in Hell(only if it won't be explained)

7. Gotenks to not go SSJ3 in BOG(even if it was better to not draw him with long hair in order to do a fine gag scene with him and Beerus).

8. Gure, Abo and Cado from JSATS.

9. Trunks and Mai(also Mai to that young in BOG - only 41 years old -, it doesn't make sense)

10. Marron to be that short and ugly.

[Tzigi]

Current Toriyama's style. It's beyond ugly for me. If DB was like that from the beginning I'd probably never like it let alone love it. Emanciated noodle-people with horrible computer shading. Nope. Toyotaro draws DB way better then Toriyama does nowadays.

[Zenkashuu]

The problem is that they try to attract a younger audience (kids), as a result we're getting a waterdown violence and 'softer' characters (Vegeta, Bardock etc).

Battle of Gods. 2nd Worst Dragonball movie.

It was the best movie by far with none of the others coming even remotely close.

Evolution was superior to bog.

Damn, ice cold.