What is the lamest thing to come out of modern DBZ?

[Kakarot9001]

I guess FnF just doesn't feel like a sequel to me because it's concept is kinda random and doesn't tie into the lore the Battle Of Gods introduced with the 11 other universes. Which I assumed would have been explored in the sequel. But who knows. We don't really know much about the plot of the movie and it's gonna be at least two hours, so God only know what the full extent of the plot is going to be.

Yeah and that's something that I may never get... Why they made a mystery around other universes and other Gods Of Destruction if they aren't gonna be the theme explored in this next movie?

[Lord Beerus]

Even Bio-Broly is better than BoG.... Yeah, i went THAT far.

Did you really need to go that far?

I guess FnF just doesn't feel like a sequel to me because it's concept is kinda random and doesn't tie into the lore the Battle Of Gods introduced with the 11 other universes. Which I assumed would have been explored in the sequel. But who knows. We don't really know much about the plot of the movie and it's gonna be at least two hours, so God only know what the full extent of the plot is going to be.

Yeah and that's something that I may never get... Why they made a mystery around other universes and other Gods Of Destruction if they aren't gonna be the theme explored in this next movie?

Triology?

[Rocketman]

The 1998 Godzilla movie is better than bog.

Everything up to and including the Freeza arc is "Goku's Story". We can agree on that it seems. That's already 8 out of 10 of the story arcs.

No, I meant the last time you can even call Dragonball "Goku's story" is the battle with Freeza.

But whatever, the point is, I like the ensemble cast, and for all of the Z era, DB is an ensemble show where Goku is often the biggest gun, but he is not the ONLY one. Even in pre-Z, there's the World Tournaments were all the characters get to show off.

I don't enjoy seeing everybody trashed while ~goku~ is the ~only one~ who can do anything.

[dbzfan7]

Bottom line is people expected better from this so-called "God" form. When the title "Super Saiyan God" comes to mind, it's expected to LOOK like a god, not a cheap powerup. Maybe if it was called something else, there wouldn't be that much hate.

Makes ya wonder if the form is so great, why do away with it so quickly? It's almost like they wanted to get rid of the form as quickly as it came. Wonder why?

[Saiga]

"What is the lamest thing to come out of modern DBZ?"

The parts of the fanbase defending it.

But in all seriousness, it's hard to say. I guess I'd say Battle of Gods, because that is responsible for ushering in a new era of darkness. Can't really forgive that even if I like Beerus or some of the movie's gags.

Honestly, just so many things to choose form. I might just have to go with "All of it" like Rocketman has, but I'd probably find Episode of Bardock the least poor because it's such an insignificant thing that only really had an impact on Heroes and made Super Saiyan Bardock playable in some games, which I don't see as a problem. Don't get me wrong - absolutely horrible premise and execution, but it's not something like Battle of Gods which was both awful and continues to be shoehorned into every new product with retcons flying across the place to try and make it seem more closely tied to the original manga.

I also don't think the new "series" started by Battle of Gods is ever going to go away, like GT did. I feel like these changes are something the franchise won't move away from, and I can see why that idea is appealing... but the actual content is just so bad. These changes, these new ideas and additions, are making things worse off over all. So I don't want the series to keep the Battle of Gods stuff in focus for as long as new material is being produced. I'd prefer it to eventually become a take it or leave it deal like GT, and for the franchise to be able to tell future stories that don't have to involve the new concepts at all.

But I can't shake the feeling that that just isn't going to happen. Even Dragon Ball Fucking Minus needed to throw a Super Saiyan God reference into a story that had no need to tie into this stuff.

[Plague-Memories]

If I have to see SSJ God in every new Dragon Ball release, this is truly the darkest timeline.

[shinmaru]

I guess FnF just doesn't feel like a sequel to me because it's concept is kinda random and doesn't tie into the lore the Battle Of Gods introduced with the 11 other universes. Which I assumed would have been explored in the sequel. But who knows. We don't really know much about the plot of the movie and it's gonna be at least two hours, so God only know what the full extent of the plot is going to be.

Yeah and that's something that I may never get... Why they made a mystery around other universes and other Gods Of Destruction if they aren't gonna be the theme explored in this next movie?

Dude, you haven't even seen the movie yet how can you already judge it. I want to see your reaction when the movie gets released.
DragonBall Story was always full of plot holes it's pure an action Anime Shonen.

[sintzu]

Why they made a mystery around other universes and other Gods Of Destruction if they aren't gonna be the theme explored in this next movie ?

Why should they ? What's the problem with not using something right away ? And for all we know there might be something in ROF about it.

For example :

Goku&Vegeta could ask Beerus&Whis to go to earth with them to fight Freeza and they could say "We have a boring meeting with the other gods" which could explain why we haven't seen them in the pics showing the Z fighters fighting Freeza and his men.

Comics and manga are always introducing concepts that aren't visited till years later so why is it a problem here ?

[ABED]

the last time you can even call Dragonball "Goku's story" is the battle with Freeza.

But whatever, the point is, I like the ensemble cast, and for all of the Z era, DB is an ensemble show where Goku is often the biggest gun, but he is not the ONLY one. Even in pre-Z, there's the World Tournaments were all the characters get to show off.

Nothing about Goku being the main character precludes other characters having something to valuable to do. Fighting the big bad isn't the only thing of value for a character to do.

[SylentEcho]

.....That's why Minus is so bad. It alters the later parts of the DB story for something far less interesting and does it all just for the sake of some boring, throwaway, meaningless half-narrative that's not even interesting on its own, let alone interesting enough to justify its ramifications.

DB Minus in my opinion, is clearly not part of the canon story line simply because Goku is much older than what he was as a baby. I simply tell new fans that the main story of Kai/Z is kickass and the movies (Badock, Birus etc.) are just for fun outside of the story line. That's the solution.

Why do people had a issue with Goku's origin in DB-? Goku has always been called the anime/manga Superman for years since both Goku and Superman had similar origins. In the past no one give a shit about it and now people are mad about it.

This has been happening a lot after Death Battle made fun of Goku in that "Goku vs. Superman Battle" thing. Every comic nerd and lots of other people that knew nothing about Dragon Ball watched that and now base their opinions on it.

Is "All Of The Above" an option? Because goddamn, the series is pretty much explosive diarrhea nowadays.
I guess if forced to pick one, Episode of Bardock is the worst, but ugh.

I think we're taking them way too seriously. They've all been fun for me, but I do agree that all the silly campiness makes the franchise look bad. This kind of tongue-in-cheek humor belongs in the 80s and makes us hardcore fans look like a bunch of illiterates. A little bit of it is needed and is totally Dragon Ball, but I think they're overdoing it.

[Luso Saiyan]

Minus in my opinion, is clearly not part of the canon story line simply because Goku is much older than what he was as a baby.

It's canon to the manga, where (IIRC) he's not seen as a baby (with the exception of Raditz's memory bubble).

[Rocketman]

The only thing "canon" to the manga is the manga itself.

[Dyno]

DB Minus in my opinion, is clearly not part of the canon story line simply because Goku is much older than what he was as a baby. I simply tell new fans that the main story of Kai/Z is kickass and the movies (Badock, Birus etc.) are just for fun outside of the story line. That's the solution.

Then you are telling your friends wrong things. Though people of Kanzenshuu "teach" us Dragon Ball has no "canon", well... It kind of has indeed. The basic thing to think is the manga, the original work of the author and what the manga accepts into his continuity/timeline/story.
Movie 14 and Movie 15 were told to be part of the manga, something said by Akira Toriyama himself, I must note. Bardock vs Freeza scene from the TV Special is still considered, as it is represented in Chapter 307 (though I also must note that, since it is a flashback, Akira can create something different, but "Bardock against Freeza" in fact happened... But as long as Akira does not come up with his own view on the fight against the tyrant, the TV Special scene can be considered, after all, you must have an animated scene for all panels shown in the manga) all the rest does not necessarily happened and you could fit Dragon Ball Minus with that TV Special scene specifically.

Of course, this is just a basic thing, you can create your own personal "canon/filler".

[Rocketman]

Movie 14 and Movie 15 were told to be part of the manga, something said by Akira Toriyama himself, I must note.

But I'm looking at the manga right now and I don't see them.

[Dyno]

That is because you cannot use, for whatever reason, a little thing learned as a teen, I suppose, called "interpretation". "I thought this movie as though it happened in the manga" (or something like that). This line, coming from the author, is enough to make it part of the manga.

[Rocketman]

But it's not part of the manga. I just went back and checked and no new chapters appeared at the end of Volume 42.

[Mewzard]

The only thing "canon" to the manga is the manga itself.

Except Toriyama created the Jaco manga, connected it to Dragon Ball (ending with Goku's arrival on Earth) and even gave us an extra chapter dedicated to Bardock and Planet Vegeta.

It's canon. As is Battle of Gods (which references Tarble, so at least some aspect of Yo! Son Goku and Friends Return did happen) and Revival of F. The creator of Dragon Ball creating new Dragon Ball material set within the confines of his series. What more do you need for canon?

Toriyama's doing what he always did in this series: Making fun stories and occasionally making some changes (Jaco and Minus aren't the first time details of Goku's origin have changed/have been revealed...it once happened when a long haired man named Raditz appeared).

Toriyama hasn't changed too much beyond age/ability to draw long manga. But the fanbase has gotten a lot older, and (to some degree) matured since the days they watched DB/DBZ/GT on tv after school/over the weekend/etc.

Honestly, I don't think modern DB material is that off from old DB material (maybe leaning a bit more early DB than later DB at times)..but we've had the old material for a long time. Our ideas are less malleable at this point, and our headcanons are endeared to. Change is scary, and imperfect, and it's easier to view the world in our rose-tinted glasses of the nostalgic past than face the bright sun of modern content without protection.

It might not always be better than what we had before, but it can be, and it can still be entertaining and enjoyable even if it isn't better.

I love the old material, and I always will (the wonderful manga, and the anime...some filler more enjoyable than others), but like with the dub, I won't let my nostalgia of the past hold me back from enjoying something I can see as wonderful (thank you Kai for the great dub).

I've been watching DBZ since the Ocean Dub debuted on Toonami (I watched Toonami from the very beginning), and reading the Dragon Ball manga since Viz's Shonen Jump magazine debuted in 2003. I love the series too much to let nostalgia ruin awesome new material for me (Battle of Gods was the most I've enjoyed any DB movie).

Like I said before, to me, the lamest stuff is more with Toei's cheapness in animation (and Episode of Bardock, but that's a whole other discussion).

[Rocketman]

What more do you need for canon?

To be part of the original run of the manga. Retcons, even author retcons, from twenty years later ain't worth shit.


It's also NOT within the confines of the manga, since the Uub section exists and contradicts all this new shit.

[Dyno]

What more do you need for canon?

To be part of the original run of the manga.

Which leads me to think you could say Movie 1 up to Movie 13 are all canon, am I right here?

[Kamiccolo9]

What more do you need for canon?

To be part of the original run of the manga.

Which leads me to think you could say Movie 1 up to Movie 13 are all canon, am I right here?

Are they a part of the original run of the manga?