Gohan thinks he can still become a Super Saiyan

[mAcChaos]

I don't understand the hate towards Gohan going SSJ post-Buu. Mystic isn't a transformation, it draws all the user's potential out to the forefront.

However, Gohan doesn't train because of that reason and others. Assuming any time passes since he first uses it, he will get weaker if he doesn't train to maintain that level of strength. Seeing how going SSJ is second nature to him, he just does that instead of train since it will draw out the energy that he lost.

But he was Mystic EoZ.

How do you know.

[Low Tone G]

I don't understand the hate towards Gohan going SSJ post-Buu. Mystic isn't a transformation, it draws all the user's potential out to the forefront.

However, Gohan doesn't train because of that reason and others. Assuming any time passes since he first uses it, he will get weaker if he doesn't train to maintain that level of strength. Seeing how going SSJ is second nature to him, he just does that instead of train since it will draw out the energy that he lost.

But he was Mystic EoZ.

How do you know.

I'm asking myself too...

I don't really see why people say that Gohan's Mystic whatever is always on when it's obvious that he doesn't need it in everyday life. Morever that would make his everyday life to be very difficult as he should control himself even when he sleeps. For me it's very obvious that he has to power up when he needs it. And what's the matter if he goes Super Saiyan when he can have Ultimate whenever he wants? Old Kai said that the transformations are useless and somewhat wrong ways, because sap energy, but he didn't say that it's impossible to become a SSJ when a Saiyan wants to.

And maybe he can not transmite energy when he is Ultimate state? It's a state that conserves all the power that Gohan has, so maybe it's restrcited in that way that he can not lend enery when he's being one. And for the SSJ-God ritual it's needed to transmite energy.

[Tunjevina]

Two very simple, yet reasonable explanations.

Too bad they're wrong.

But, how do you know?

1.I dislike that Gohan is losing his unique traits (black-haired form being his best/strongest form, rage boosts) and not getting anything in return except to stand around gawping at ~goku~.

2.I dislike that they've made Mystic a transformation when it is explicitly not, just so they can get rid of it and downgrade him.

3.I dislike that he's being given Super Saiyan again, not as part of the endless road to growing stronger, but so he can get thrown back on the pile of golden-haired fodder.

4.I dislike how they're retconning the manga to jam all this shit into the years before Uub.

5.I dislike how Gohan, who's always been had the highest potential of anybody and who then got all of that potential released, was somehow surpassed by SS1 Vegeta, who topped out back with Majin Vegeta.

[/quote]
1.Goku fought in his base for half of Dragon Ball/Z, the other half he fought as a Super Saiyan, if he is fighting in his base again it would be cool, I miss that, he is not stealing anything from Gohan, it's like saying Goku lost his unique Super Saiyan trait in the Android Arc.
As for rage boosts, well I thought when Old Kaio unlocked Gohan's hidden potential, that he can't use any more rage boosts, because it's all unlocked.Vegeta's rage boost just showed us how much he changed and how much love he has for Bulma, and his rage boost power-up was nowhere as near as Gohan's.

2.In my eyes he's just Mystic Gohan, don't really care if mystic is considered a transformation or not.

3.We still haven't seen the reason why he goes Super Saiyan in the movie, you may not like it, but they may actually give as a logical reason.

4.I didn't like the EoZ so I actually love if they are retconning that, it gives me hope that Toriyama will change the EoZ

5.I'm gonna quote Goku here in the Saiyan Arc before he fights Vegeta.
Goku: On this planet we know that even the lowest-born can outdo the elite if they work hard enough.
Since Gohan is not training anymore, it's only natural for the DB World that someone who tries hard enough (like Vegeta) surpasses Gohan.

Seriously, sometimes I feel like you want Gohan to be a nerd, who is a great scholar, a Great Saiyaman, a great father & husband who doesn't train at all and somehow be the strongest?!!

Why does he need to be weakened so much to be all of the bolded tho? He can be all of the bolded without having him slack off and suddenly be so far below Goku and Vegeta.
He was extremely important against Raditz, Vegeta, in Namek, Cell, and he was badass in the Buu arc. His character deserves better than being the new Yamcha

How can he have time to educate himself (go to school/college), study at home, be a good husband & a father, fight against the crime and have time for training?!

I liked Kid Gohan a lot, a young warrior that trained and pushed himself to the limit and more to get stronger so that he can protect his loved ones. But that's not the adult Gohan, I completely agree that he deserves better, but Toriyama imagined him differently, and right now it's hard to come up with a plot that would change Gohan to a warrior he used to be.
I don't mind him being the strongest again if he trains like when he was a kid, if he trains even harder then Goku & Vegeta, I would love to see that Gohan again, but this movie doesn't have that scenario. In this movie, he is still a nerd who doesn't train, and demanding of that Gohan to be the strongest is just ridiculous.

[Tunjevina]

Two very simple, yet reasonable explanations.

Too bad they're wrong.

But, how do you know?

1.I dislike that Gohan is losing his unique traits (black-haired form being his best/strongest form, rage boosts) and not getting anything in return except to stand around gawping at ~goku~.

2.I dislike that they've made Mystic a transformation when it is explicitly not, just so they can get rid of it and downgrade him.

3.I dislike that he's being given Super Saiyan again, not as part of the endless road to growing stronger, but so he can get thrown back on the pile of golden-haired fodder.

4.I dislike how they're retconning the manga to jam all this shit into the years before Uub.

5.I dislike how Gohan, who's always been had the highest potential of anybody and who then got all of that potential released, was somehow surpassed by SS1 Vegeta, who topped out back with Majin Vegeta.

1.Goku fought in his base for half of Dragon Ball/Z, the other half he fought as a Super Saiyan, if he is fighting in his base again it would be cool, I miss that, he is not stealing anything from Gohan, it's like saying Goku lost his unique Super Saiyan trait in the Android Arc.
As for rage boosts, well I thought when Old Kaio unlocked Gohan's hidden potential, that he can't use any more rage boosts, because it's all unlocked.Vegeta's rage boost just showed us how much he changed and how much love he has for Bulma, and his rage boost power-up was nowhere as near as Gohan's.

2.In my eyes he's just Mystic Gohan, don't really care if mystic is considered a transformation or not.

3.We still haven't seen the reason why he goes Super Saiyan in the movie, you may not like it, but they may actually give as a logical reason.

4.I didn't like the EoZ so I actually love if they are retconning that, it gives me hope that Toriyama will change the EoZ

5.I'm gonna quote Goku here in the Saiyan Arc before he fights Vegeta.
Goku: On this planet we know that even the lowest-born can outdo the elite if they work hard enough.
Since Gohan is not training anymore, it's only natural for the DB World that someone who tries hard enough (like Vegeta) surpasses Gohan.

Seriously, sometimes I feel like you want Gohan to be a nerd, who is a great scholar, a Great Saiyaman, a great father & husband who doesn't train at all and somehow be the strongest?!!

Why does he need to be weakened so much to be all of the bolded tho? He can be all of the bolded without having him slack off and suddenly be so far below Goku and Vegeta.
He was extremely important against Raditz, Vegeta, in Namek, Cell, and he was badass in the Buu arc. His character deserves better than being the new Yamcha

How can he have time to educate himself (go to school/college), study at home, be a good husband & a father, fight against the crime and have time for training?!

I liked Kid Gohan a lot, a young warrior that trained and pushed himself to the limit and more to get stronger so that he can protect his loved ones. But that's not the adult Gohan, I completely agree that he deserves better, but Toriyama imagined him differently, and right now it's hard to come up with a plot that would change Gohan to a warrior he used to be.
I don't mind him being the strongest again if he trains like when he was a kid, if he trains even harder then Goku & Vegeta, I would love to see that Gohan again, but this movie doesn't have that scenario. In this movie, he is still a nerd who doesn't train, and being disappointed that that Gohan isn't the strongest is just ridiculous.[/quote]

[TheUltimateVegito]

I'm just amazed that tracksuit Gohan actually looks badass for once.

[Rocketman]

How do you know.

His eyes change when the Mystic ritual is completed. They remain changed in the Uub section.

[FoolsGil]

Guys Guys Guys Guys Guys. (and ladies)

The 'Mystic Powerup' was a technique to release all of Gohan's potential power outside of Super Saiyan-it just so happens that his potential is so vast, his base is stronger than SSJ, SSJ2, and maybe SSJ3. SOOOOO, all this time he didn't need SSJ, but if he did use it, the 50x multiplier would be stacked upon his ultimate released potential.

And I'm probably wrong, but Krillin is apparently a police officer now, nothing makes sense, no point in trying to understand what is happening before the movie comes out.

[singsing]

Guys Guys Guys Guys Guys. (and ladies)

The 'Mystic Powerup' was a technique to release all of Gohan's potential power outside of Super Saiyan-it just so happens that his potential is so vast, his base is stronger than SSJ, SSJ2, and maybe SSJ3. SOOOOO, all this time he didn't need SSJ, but if he did use it, the 50x multiplier would be stacked upon his ultimate released potential.

And I'm probably wrong, but Krillin is apparently a police officer now, nothing makes sense, no point in trying to understand what is happening before the movie comes out.

So he's Mystic Gohan x 50? Why isn't he blinking Beerus out of existence then?

[mAcChaos]

Guys Guys Guys Guys Guys. (and ladies)

The 'Mystic Powerup' was a technique to release all of Gohan's potential power outside of Super Saiyan-it just so happens that his potential is so vast, his base is stronger than SSJ, SSJ2, and maybe SSJ3. SOOOOO, all this time he didn't need SSJ, but if he did use it, the 50x multiplier would be stacked upon his ultimate released potential.

And I'm probably wrong, but Krillin is apparently a police officer now, nothing makes sense, no point in trying to understand what is happening before the movie comes out.

SSJ releases dormant potential. Mystic releases all of it. So there should be nothing left for SSJ to release. He could technically still go SSJ probably but it wouldn't do anything.

For Gohan to think that SSJ is useful again means that a lot of that released power has gone dormant again.

[AvatarReiko]

The super saiyan transformation is a saiyan ability and is apart of Gohan's DNA. He wouldn't magically lose the ability to turn into one. Its apart of his skill set. Its like saying that the super saiya transformation would override the Ape one, and that the saiyan would lose the ability to transform under the full moon altogether. However, the way I saw it, is that transformations became obsolete for Gohan since he could already access the power of the SSJ forms and more, in his base form. Going off this, there shouldn't have been any reason for Gohan to transform when donating his Ki in the ritual.

[Cetra]

I am so glad that the omniscient fan knows better than a franchise owner.

Except the part where Goku already mentions Super Saiyajin in the Manga for fusion, the fact that you can always train, that Ultimate simply can be a different branch, just like SUper Saiyajin 4 is another branch and the fact that franchise owners can write and explain whatever they want. And in this case it is not even that it doesn't make sense. And an owner forgetting something - which is not even stated as a fact in the first place - or rewiting something is, okay, even if we don't like it.

By the way. Even if Gohan can go Ultimate it does not mean he cannot train and get Super Saiyajin power that cannot fully be unleashed in Ultimate mode. And this "full potential" thing is an excuse because in Dragon Ball "full potential and even more" breaks the limits more than once.

How do you know.

His eyes change when the Mystic ritual is completed. They remain changed in the Uub section.

It has been a power up/transformation ever since. Gohan powers up in Kaiohshin realm and then again right in Boo's face. He does not always have the same power. Piccolo could not even think of Gohan having a chance before he used the BAM! Ultimate Gohan! Shockwave! Power up! on earth. In the movies he also powers up and he constantls changes his facial expression. Especially consistency about how something is drawn is not the greatest argument in Dragon Ball. And obviously Gohan has trained for Super Saiyajin again. This by the way fits perfectly with the Dragon Ball GT explanation in which he has trained.

[mAcChaos]

How do you know.

His eyes change when the Mystic ritual is completed. They remain changed in the Uub section.

That doesn't necessarily mean it is because of the Mystic powerup remaining.

The eyes represent characterization and personality too; it could just be that Gohan has matured. Vegeta has eyes like that and you don't see him with a Mystic powerup.

Or maybe whatever confidence he gained from the powerup remained, since it's his personality, but the power went dormant again due to lack of training.

[Kamiccolo9]

I am so glad that the omniscient fan knows better than a franchise owner.

Every franchise has fans that know the story better than the creators do. It's not that uncommon. Fans will obsess over the smallest detail, while creators typically don't care nearly as much.

[Cetra]

That was sarcasm. And no one knows better. Even if a franchise owner forgets, if he decides something to be today it is the new fact. Especially when people think "they know better what someone has meant as the one who meant it". Akira Toriyama has people that remind of what is but if he decides something else it is like it is now.

[Hitiro]

SSJ releases dormant potential. Mystic releases all of it. So there should be nothing left for SSJ to release. He could technically still go SSJ probably but it wouldn't do anything.

For Gohan to think that SSJ is useful again means that a lot of that released power has gone dormant again.

Rou Kaioshin says the ritual will bring out Gohan's potential way way past his limits. He never said that the ritual would give him all of his potential.

[dbzfan7]

I am so glad that the omniscient fan knows better than a franchise owner.

Franchise owner calls the shots, but that doesn't mean they know better. Guess people should shut the fuck up about George Lucas then when he owned Star Wars. Put Toriyama into any trivia or competition on Dragon Balls Manga, and Toriyama will lose. Toriyama isn't heavily into his own series. Hence why he always forgets things. Toriyama can make up whatever rules and choices he wants, but he can still be wrong about his own series when it comes to continuity and consistency.

[FoolsGil]

I am so glad that the omniscient fan knows better than a franchise owner.

Franchise owner calls the shots, but that doesn't mean they know better. Guess people should shut the fuck up about George Lucas then when he owned Star Wars. Put Toriyama into any trivia or competition on Dragon Balls Manga, and Toriyama will lose. Toriyama isn't heavily into his own series. Hence why he always forgets things. Toriyama can make up whatever rules and choices he wants, but he can still be wrong about his own series when it comes to continuity and consistency.

True. George R.R. Martin has a fan who keeps track of everything in Westeros for ASOIAF so he doesn't screw up his branching plots or put people in the wrong place. It's the fans who keep the authors in line.

[dbzfan7]

I am so glad that the omniscient fan knows better than a franchise owner.

Franchise owner calls the shots, but that doesn't mean they know better. Guess people should shut the fuck up about George Lucas then when he owned Star Wars. Put Toriyama into any trivia or competition on Dragon Balls Manga, and Toriyama will lose. Toriyama isn't heavily into his own series. Hence why he always forgets things. Toriyama can make up whatever rules and choices he wants, but he can still be wrong about his own series when it comes to continuity and consistency.

True. George R.R. Martin has a fan who keeps track of everything in Westeros for ASOIAF so he doesn't screw up his branching plots or put people in the wrong place. It's the fans who keep the authors in line.

I want Toriyama to have someone like that.

[ekrolo2]

Has anyone considered that Gohan's Mystic Form is simply a variation on Freeza going 100% power? I mean both function very similarly (to me at least), they have a base level from which they can jump around to higher levels and Gohan's Mystic Form is simply him utilizing 100% of his maximum available power unlocked by Old Kai, without any of Freeza's disadvantages of course, that he can turn on or off if he so chooses too.

While it's possible that Gohan couldn't turn it off at the end of Z, I don't see why he couldn't have learned how to turn it off during periods when he doesn't need it. Now the argument can be made that since it doesn't drain power at all why would he need to do turn it off. But I think he did so just to keep his own power in check so he doesn't accidentally screw something up because of it, I mean Goku smashed Chi-Chi through their home and into a big rock just by forgetting his own strength for a second. Now imagine a dude above SSJ3 doing that, yeah....

[Rocketman]

Except none of that is WHY he lost it. He's lost it because it makes Goku look bad. He's lost it to shove him out of the way because it's Goku Time, motherfuckers, and if you don't like Goku dick slapping your tonsils you best get out now.

Anything else is after-the-fact rationalization to pretend like it's not to suck Goku off.