Unpopular DB opinions

[rereboy]

Uh yeah it does. None of what you listed after gives Goku a reason to hate Tenshinhan.

Which doesn't change things at all... Goku didn't actually act differently besides a few more serious looks towards Tenshinhan and he certainly didn't do any significant action that he wouldn't do otherwise. In their fight it was Tenchinhan who went on the offensive first (since Goku admitted that he had been keeping his level at tournament level for the first part of the fight), and Goku didn't even actually acted enraged on the fight. And we would still have Tenshinhan saying that he wants to be a killer and his loyalty towards Tao Pai Pai and his school and all that.

Tell me one actual significant thing that happened because Goku hated him that wouldn't have happened otherwise besides some serious looks towards Tenshinhan.

It doesn't establish anything and it retrospective it kind of makes Kami look like a dick if anything. Like why did Kami try to stop Ma Junior but he didn't attack Daimao?

That's another discussion entirely which hardly has anything to do with what was being said.

[Kid Buu]

Which doesn't change things at all... Goku didn't actually act differently besides a few more serious looks towards Tenshinhan and he certainly didn't do any significant action that he wouldn't do otherwise. In their fight it was Tenchinhan who went on the offensive first (since Goku admitted that he had been keeping his level at tournament level for the first part of the fight), and Goku didn't even actually acted enraged on the fight. And we would still have Tenshinhan saying that he wants to be a killer and his loyalty towards Tao Pai Pai and his school and all that.

Tell me one actual significant thing that happened because Goku hated him that wouldn't have happened otherwise besides some serious looks towards Tenshinhan.

It builds a connection between the two. The narrative gives both characters a reason to dislike each other, so it isn't two random guys fighting each other.

That's another discussion entirely which hardly has anything to do with what was being said.

Of course it does. Since the only meaning to Kami's fights in the tournament is to make the previous story arc look dumb.

[Nikkolas]

This argument doesn't appear to be going anywhere so can we all just agree to disagree and move on?

[Kid Buu]

Yeah, I can agree to that.

[rereboy]

It builds a connection between the two. The narrative gives both characters a reason to dislike each other, so it isn't two random guys fighting each other.

Tenshinhan breaking Yamcha's leg did not give him a reason to dislike Goku, it only made Goku dislike Tenshinhan. And without it they would still have a connection as rivals with all the story between their schools, Tao Pai Pai, natural rivalry from their abilities and drive to win. Goku would just not dislike him as much at first. Nothing significant would actually change at all since, even including the broken leg, that's all they ever were, rivals, and the reader would still know his evil intentions and internal conflict.

Of course it does. Since the only meaning to Kami's fights in the tournament is to make the previous story arc look dumb.

The discussion of the possible plothole has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. You're shifting the focus. The focus is that it was as relevant for what happened as Yamcha / Tenshinhan or not, nor whether or not there's a plothole in Kami's and Piccolo's relationship...

Honestly, I think you are being rather partial in the distinction between the two instead of objective, but whatever...

This argument doesn't appear to be going anywhere so can we all just agree to disagree and move on?

Does it ever go anywhere...?

[Kid Buu]

The narrative gives us reason for Ten to dislike Goku after that scene, and Goku wasn't even part of the Turtle School anymore by the time the tournament. Also if you're under the belief that arguments don't go anymore why even debate with me anyway? I'm pretty sure that user was just annoyed that our discussion is overwhelming the thread in general, since his post got buried under it. Probably best to take this elsewhere or end it.

[garnetjester]

You know, GT gets a lot of flack for being "Goku Time" but let's examine the Buu Saga shall we? This is the arc some on here have said is about "the next generation."

Yes, it's about the next generation being royal fuck-ups, accomplishing nothing, and then Goku has to save everyone anyway. Goten and Trunks never beat Buu, Gohan never killed Buu, both of them actually made Buu stronger thus increasing his threat to the Earth and the universe as a whole... In the end Goku killed Buu after the next generation failed countless times.

Basically GT was just continuing the tradition. Only this time it was without the bait-and-switch. Goten and Trunks ARE useless and are never treated as anything else while Goku is the only one who could save us, just as he was in the Buu Saga.

Really, the Cell Saga was the only Z Arc about "the next generation."

Yeah, but at least we could SEE those characters training and putting up a good fight. I love Goku as much as every DB fan, he's my second favorite character, but it's just tiresome in GT to not even get a glimpse of anyone else (well, Vegeta is there but I really don't care as much for him unless he's being hilarious).

I liked the Buu saga precisely because Gotenks changed the tone of the show so much, Gohan got to train and became badass even if it was useless after all and Vegeta tried to keep up the fight. In GT we don't even have that. I love the fights in DB, but it also has a very likable cast of characters, so I love seeing them interact and work as a team. GT is boring to me because it doesn't have that aspect in it, and I can understand because Goku is the main character and people just want to see Goku kick butt according to Toei, which is why we have all the DBZ movies being about that (except for Bojack), but I prefer Toriyama's tone and the different personalities of the characters give them also different ways to fight and it's more interesting to me.

[Ringworm128]

Looking back on it now, the casting for DBE wasn't too bad, it was mainly the script and direction that made the characters unrecognizable.

[DieHard]

I think dragon ball evolution was really good.It made the original much better

[singsing]

Looking back on it now, the casting for DBE wasn't too bad, it was mainly the script and direction that made the characters unrecognizable.

That young Roshi being master to old Gohan though.

[Monkey King Vegeta]

The cast was the tip of the iceburg of whats wrong with DBE.

For starters, I've always hated how most comic adaptations try to incorporate modern life into the movie, for example all the "This is going of Facebook" garbage, its so annoying and makes the movie that much lamer.

I havent even seen the entire movie to take it serious, but it seem like Goku was playing the cliche'd outsider in a high school of idiots, Peter Parker style.

In other words, not Goku, no Goku = no DBZ. period.

The cast was "whitewashed" wether you agree or not, Hollywood has always had their agendas and propaganda thru their films, it just so happens that the asians are badly represented and are almost always switched to white guys in their movies, like 21.

I mean they got all the others right, why Goku, the main character had to be white when they knew well enough it was a Japanese manga, even if they couldn't find an asian, at least get someone that looks like Goku, muscular lean and athletic, not a freaking Justin Chatwin.

/rant

[Kakacarrottop]

- The Ocean dub of the first 53 episodes is the definitive version of the series

- GT is better than the original Dragon Ball anime

- Gohan is a boring, overrated character and Toriyama was right to not end on him being the main hero

- Shuki Levy/Ron Wasserman is the best Dragon Ball composer

- Piccolo is a better character than Vegeta

- The anime is more canon than the manga

- Paul Dobson is a better Zarbon than J. Michael Tatum

- FUNimation should keep using replacement soundtracks

[Gyt Kaliba]

The cast was "whitewashed" wether you agree or not, Hollywood has always had their agendas and propaganda thru their films, it just so happens that the asians are badly represented and are almost always switched to white guys in their movies, like 21.

I'm not saying whitewashing doesn't happen, but uh...there were basically eight main characters in Evolution (Goku, Roshi, Bulma, Chi Chi, Piccolo, Yamcha, Mai, and to a lesser extent Grandpa Gohan), and of those eight, five of them were played by actors of various Asian descents. What part of that sounds like white-washing?

Again, not really defending anything, because I agree that Evolution just wasn't that good, and Chatwin was easily one of the worst actors in it...but it wasn't because he was white.

[Kakacarrottop]

Hollywood has always had their agendas and propaganda thru their films, it just so happens that the asians are badly represented

Hollywood has much more anti-white propaganda than it does anti-asian propaganda.

[dbgtFO]

The cast was "whitewashed" wether you agree or not, Hollywood has always had their agendas and propaganda thru their films, it just so happens that the asians are badly represented and are almost always switched to white guys in their movies, like 21.

I'm not saying whitewashing doesn't happen, but uh...there were basically eight main characters in Evolution (Goku, Roshi, Bulma, Chi Chi, Piccolo, Yamcha, Mai, and to a lesser extent Grandpa Gohan), and of those eight, five of them were played by actors of various Asian descents. What part of that sounds like white-washing?

The implication would be that main characters are white, while asian people can only be supporting characters.

[dbzfan7]

Toriyama needs another person seriously looking over his shoulder, badly.

Characters who aren't going to get much focus should just not be around. If they're going to be around, make them actually relevant more than a power up, or jobber.

[rereboy]

The cast was "whitewashed" wether you agree or not, Hollywood has always had their agendas and propaganda thru their films, it just so happens that the asians are badly represented and are almost always switched to white guys in their movies, like 21.

Its a hollywood production... You think that if it was a bollywood production, or a chinese production, or a japanese production, no matter what the source of the story was, that the same or worse wouldn't happen...?

I don't really see the point in criticizing a western production for using the standards for the western world. That's just politically correct policy taken too far.

[Gyt Kaliba]

The implication would be that main characters are white, while asian people can only be supporting characters.

But I just pointed out that a majority of them weren't. And besides, neither Goku nor Piccolo (who was green...ish...in the film) are Japanese, or Earthling, to begin with...so really, any actor who can portray them well should be able to be cast, regardless of their nationality. In a perfect scenario I'd take a white/black/etc. man who's able to do Goku justice over a Japanese actor who can't but got the role simply because they were from the country the series originated from.

Of course, what we actually got was neither of those things, so...

I don't really see the point in criticizing a western production for using the standards for the western world. That's just politically correct policy taken too far.

I don't know that I would go that far, as I would really love to see some more diversity in Hollywood casting...but I do agree with your point. That and, while I understand it doesn't happen nearly as often as whitewashing or to as major of properties, but it's not like the reverse hasn't happened before too. The Honeymooners movie comes to mind, or the most recent version of Annie.

Like I said though, at the end of the day it's the acting that needs to shine through, not someone being cast because they just so happen to be the right ethnicity. Preferably actors that happen to fit both can be found for any given role, but it doesn't always work out that way.

[ZazamPow]

Unpopular opinions?

I think most of the Japanese voices are boring.

[Monkey King Vegeta]

The cast was "whitewashed" wether you agree or not, Hollywood has always had their agendas and propaganda thru their films, it just so happens that the asians are badly represented and are almost always switched to white guys in their movies, like 21.

I'm not saying whitewashing doesn't happen, but uh...there were basically eight main characters in Evolution (Goku, Roshi, Bulma, Chi Chi, Piccolo, Yamcha, Mai, and to a lesser extent Grandpa Gohan), and of those eight, five of them were played by actors of various Asian descents. What part of that sounds like white-washing?

Again, not really defending anything, because I agree that Evolution just wasn't that good, and Chatwin was easily one of the worst actors in it...but it wasn't because he was white.

I also heard the director was asian, but the point stands, to make the main lead from an asian beloved series a white guy, is "whitewashing" because of the importance the role plays, it is their "Superman"!

Think about it this way, if the Japanese where making a manga (which there known for) about Superman (the hero you grew up with) and made him asian whilst all the other characters are whites, wouldn't that give you a sour taste in your mouth?

Not that the asians have a monopoly over the franchise and all, but it's only fair to point out the obvious and bring attention to it in order to fix it.

Hollywood has always had their agendas and propaganda thru their films, it just so happens that the asians are badly represented

Hollywood has much more anti-white propaganda than it does anti-asian propaganda.

Could you elaborate on that? Hope this doesn't turn into a lecture on how "the Jews run the world". But I'm open to listen.

Mainly all the movies I've watched recently have a white male lead in a heroic role, you can say their good actors and I'll agree, but my grief comes when they depict all the others races as lesser than them, especially when this isn't the case in real life.

Most recently check out the movie "American Sniper", it gained a lot of criticism for glorifying a man who accumulated more than 100 kills (let that sink in) in the Iraq occupation, mixed reviews but I'm glad most called him out for his cowardice and learn that a man who kills another with a gun (let alone from 100 yards with a sniper) is not a hero in our books.

The cast was "whitewashed" wether you agree or not, Hollywood has always had their agendas and propaganda thru their films, it just so happens that the asians are badly represented and are almost always switched to white guys in their movies, like 21.

Its a hollywood production... You think that if it was a bollywood production, or a chinese production, or a japanese production, no matter what the source of the story was, that the same or worse wouldn't happen...?

I don't really see the point in criticizing a western production for using the standards for the western world. That's just politically correct policy taken too far.

You don't understand what an agenda is, do you?

Hollywood (unlike Bollywood, which is rarely acknowledged) is known for their films which are watched world-wide, for this they are usually used to send out messages to the uneducated public.

The "race issue" arose when people started realizing that mostly white males would play the big roles, sometimes even playing the roles that would ignite a shitstorm, for example the white Jesus myth that the public takes as facts, and most recently the "Exodus" movie in which the royalty had fair skin and (not surprising) the slaves where all black actors.

Theres no excuse for this to go on, the public suffers by being ignorant and believing all the propaganda they see on their glorified films. They're in for a rude wake up call, just as when you found out the WWE was all scripted and those great wrestlers can't even throw a punch in rl.

But back onto the DBZ topic, what I basically wanted to say was that I wanted someone that would look close to Goku in appearance (MA is a bonus) , race wise, anyone can play him correct, but if your gonna use my beloved series to spread some bullshit propaganda, you got the wrong show Hollywood.