How Does Minus Contradict The Manga?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Not a contradiction, but it perhaps makes Raditz' death kind of tragic- Just a big misunderstanding.

Even if Raditz knew about the real reason that Goku was sent to Earth, he would still try to recruit him, and the same events would occur.

[Gaffer Tape]

Totally with Rocketman on this one. The people who dislike DB- dislike it because they think it's bad. And, honestly, it's more than a little insulting for those who do like it to counter with as dismissive a claim as "oh, it's just because they can't handle new stuff." I went into it expecting and anticipating something different. I was looking forward to something different. What I didn't expect or anticipate was for it to be so disappointing and hollow. I mean, good grief, I've written several essays' worth of material on why I think it's bad, so please don't be so patronizing just because you do happen to like it and feel compelled to ward off those who don't.

[Gyt Kaliba]

That's just it though, Gaffer. I can't speak for everyone of course, but at least in my case, I'm not against you for your reasoning on why you don't like Minus. You make very valid points, and while I don't agree 100% about it invalidating things, I can respect your viewpoint because you back it up so well.

But other than you, most others seem to be going 'ALL THIS NEW STUFF SUCKS' without really having much reasoning behind it, and are completely unwilling to explain why they dislike it, all while continually ignoring counter points that can be brought up. That's no way to have a conversation, that's just being stubborn, and yes, being a 'stick in the mud' as it were.

[Mewzard]

That's just it though, Gaffer. I can't speak for everyone of course, but at least in my case, I'm not against you for your reasoning on why you don't like Minus. You make very valid points, and while I don't agree 100% about it invalidating things, I can respect your viewpoint because you back it up so well.

But other than you, most others seem to be going 'ALL THIS NEW STUFF SUCKS' without really having much reasoning behind it, and are completely unwilling to explain why they dislike it, all while continually ignoring counter points that can be brought up. That's no way to have a conversation, that's just being stubborn, and yes, being a 'stick in the mud' as it were.

That's the feeling I get as well. I view both stories as flawed in different ways.

Minus helped me see the flaws in the Bardock Special I never thought of before even as the Bardock Special had certain strengths that Minus lacked.

I just honestly feel Minus isn't as bad and the Bardock Special isn't as good as some people think.

[rereboy]

That's just it though, Gaffer. I can't speak for everyone of course, but at least in my case, I'm not against you for your reasoning on why you don't like Minus. You make very valid points, and while I don't agree 100% about it invalidating things, I can respect your viewpoint because you back it up so well.

But other than you, most others seem to be going 'ALL THIS NEW STUFF SUCKS' without really having much reasoning behind it, and are completely unwilling to explain why they dislike it, all while continually ignoring counter points that can be brought up. That's no way to have a conversation, that's just being stubborn, and yes, being a 'stick in the mud' as it were.

A person doesn't need to be able to write an essay on the problems/flaws of a production to know that he didn't particularly enjoy a certain production and found it rather "meh" or even bad.

Being able to really get to the point and really identify the problems that they find on a production and criticize it is a particular analytical skill set that not everybody has in abundance. Most people will just be able to tell you that they found it "meh" or bad, and will just be able to point out a few problems.

So, not providing an exhaustive list of reasons doesn't mean that people are disliking it just because.

[Gyt Kaliba]

It's not about how long the written post is though, it's about the content within. And while Gaffer makes great points for his view, others are basically coming in just to make one line posts about 'Nope, it sucks'. Again, that's not conversation, that's being bullheaded.

[rereboy]

It's not about how long the written post is though, it's about the content within. And while Gaffer makes great points for his view, others are basically coming in just to make one line posts about 'Nope, it sucks'. Again, that's not conversation, that's being bullheaded.

I'll give you an example.

I've seen plenty of movies that I found "meh" or even bad, but I wouldn't be able to pinpoint exactly the flaws/problems I had with them in a detailed or significant fashion, thus the content of a post written by me regarding those flaws would be very poor. Sometimes I know exactly what are the flaws/problems in a movie and I can criticize them at length, and other times I'm not really able to do that, but I still know if I found it pretty "meh" or bad. This happens because sometimes our analytical abilities are able to understand exactly why a movie left us with a certain impression, and other times they aren't.

And what you are basically telling me is that, if I found those movies pretty "meh" or even bad, but aren't able to pinpoint for you the flaws/problems in any significant or detailed fashion, I'm being bullheaded and I'm criticizing it just because.

[Ex-Dubbie369]

It's not about how long the written post is though, it's about the content within. And while Gaffer makes great points for his view, others are basically coming in just to make one line posts about 'Nope, it sucks'. Again, that's not conversation, that's being bullheaded.

There are definitely people saying that, and that's why I basically have prefaced most of my posts on Minus with "I agree with Gaffer Tape". However, I honestly haven't heard a solid defense or reasons stated for why people like Minus other than "its written by Toriyama, thus its automatically better than what Toei's done", "its different, thus I like it" or "lolz people are mad that's funny".

[Dyno]

Only a few elements from Dragon Ball Minus could have been taken and put them on the TV Special, as I always wanted to see:

Bardock and Gine.
Bardock and Gine talking a little more about Raditz.
Bardock and Gine interacting more with Kakarot.
Bardock and Gine being present for Kakarot's departure.

All of this could be transported to the TV Special and it would make the TV Special be even better than it already is.

And I thought about these ones:

Bardock asking Gine to run away and wait for the right moment to show up to Kakarot, to tell him all the truth and what happened. For the sake of development, for the sake of an awesome moment and for the sake of the protagonist at least having the knowledge of who were his parents for real.
Bardock's actual fight against Freeza.

[Mewzard]

There are definitely people saying that, and that's why I basically have prefaced most of my posts on Minus with "I agree with Gaffer Tape". However, I honestly haven't heard a solid defense or reasons stated for why people like Minus other than "its written by Toriyama, thus its automatically better than what Toei's done", "its different, thus I like it" or "lolz people are mad that's funny".

I've definitely gone into it before.

I like the additions to Saiyan Culture for one. I liked seeing how Saiyan infants are raised, a taste of their societal celebrations, what they do with the less combat potent of their race (given the establishment of a small population, they'd die off if they just killed them off), Saiyan Architecture, that sort of stuff.

I liked that Freeza didn't just blow them up on a whim when all but four of the planet-conquering race just happened to be home, but ensured they would be there.

I liked Bardock using his instincts and his brain to figure out something was off and to play it safe, over the plotrailroad spine stab giving psychic powers while he son just happened to be scheduled to leave shortly before Freeza's whim.

I liked Bardock actually caring about his family. He's still a genocidal planet conqueror as is standard of his race, but he has a soft side for his wife and children. Shades of Gray are always nice.

Gine was nice both in the example that not all Saiyans are the same violent monsters who kickass at battle, while also being a parent who exists. Too often shonen just has one/both parents not be a thing (either never existing, dying, etc). This is a step up from Goku just appearing in existence. Do wish we could have gotten more with her and Bardock.

I liked seeing what Raditz was up to. Him and Raditz being partners was unexpected, but I like the idea.

Yeah, it needed to be several times bigger, to expand on the character interactions and build on tensions...but for what it was, I enjoyed it.

[Dayspring]

Not a contradiction, but it perhaps makes Raditz' death kind of tragic- Just a big misunderstanding.

Raditz didn't care about Goku at all, so it doesn't matter. At any point throughout Goku's life, he could have gone and retrieved Goku. He only finally does so once his own life is in jeopardy. The excuse of getting Goku would have taken Raditz out of harm's way for about two years and, once returned, would have had Goku around to use a canon fodder.

Well, I suppose with him being 3 now upon getting to earth, he met Bulma when he was 15, not 12(and thought he was 14) Which means he was a 18 at the 22nd Budokai and barely taller than Krillin? That's a big one.

Goku was still 12, when he met Bulma. Grandpa Gohan just corrctly assumed Goku was ~3 years, when he found him.

Yeah, pretty much this. Or Goku told Gohan how old he was and Gohan counted the additional years for him.