Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection 'F'"

[Lord Beerus]

I have to agree with Ajay's post. I already resented power levels as a discussion subject in Dragon Ball fandom, and most of this thread has confirmed why. It was a similar thing with Battle of Gods, where it seemed like the majority of fans are judging it by how it jives with power level "logic" or how they treated their favorite characters rather than anything the writers actually felt mattered.

Power levels are meaningless. They always have been. I never really understood why people are so hung up on the hierarchy of power in regards to the movie as supposed to whether the movie itself will be enjoyable. I could give two shit as to whether Freeza could become more powerful than a Super Saiyan God or whether Freeza mooks can be extraordinarily strong. Revival Of F is gonna be a good movie, regardless of how much stronger certain characters over other certain characters. I mean it's not like there have been inexplicable power level spikes in the franchise before.

[dbzfan7]

And I would love it... Goku is too good hearted... Vegeta should do the job and kill Freeza once and for all.

Not only to save the world... But as thanks for Goku for Namek, as revenge for his planet and father... and of course of the humiliating Vegeta went through cuz of Freeza

Well we don't know what good hearted thing Goku did. Maybe he was gonna win, but Freeza did the begging thing...I dunno.

Vegeta doesn't care to say thanks for that, numerous times has said he doesn't give a shit about his father or the saiyans, and according to the new blog is past that whole Freeza thing of the past. Doesn't mean he can't win because he's strong enough, but none of those reasons seem plausible.

[Doctor.]

Goku has learned to kill when he needs to. It would be out of character for him to spare Freeza, expecting him to change.

[sintzu]

And I would love it... Goku is too good hearted... Vegeta should do the job and kill Freeza once and for all.

Saying he's good hearted is a huge understatement.

Some times it pays off to give a 2nd chance like with Piccolo&Vegeta but how many chances did Freeza get ?

On Namek he spares his life and gives him some power to get away and what does he do ? He tries to Kill him.

When he counters his attack he still doesn't kill him and what does he do ? He goes to earth to kill him and everyone else.

And now he has god powers that can kill him and end the war on earth but decides to hold back hoping that he'll change and what does he do ? He puts a hole in his chest and torments him.

In terms of Vegeta I think we know enough to say that he will and I don't think it'll be because he's stronger then Goku but because he'll fight to kill.

[dbzfan7]

Goku has learned to kill when he needs to. It would be out of character for him to spare Freeza, expecting him to change.

Agreed. He already has killed plenty of times in the past, and killed guys like Yakon and Kid Boo without batting an eye.

[sintzu]

Goku has learned to kill when he needs to.

Which was only once against Raditz in Z.

[Kakarot9001]

Beerus' introduction in Battle of Gods was so perfect. He's as unique as they come and it truly blows my mind that anyone could think otherwise. His lethargy and goofiness work as perfect contrast to his utter lack of patience and need for violence. And yet, he's not an unreasonable villain, he respects his foes in a similar fashion to Goku. Heck, their love of food should make that astoundingly obvious, too. I see him as a great anti-Goku character. Their relationship on screen is fantastic. Beerus easily has the potential to grow to the same level of depth as Freeza.

Freeza is the most fleshed out villain that this series has ever had (alongside Piccolo Daimao). A maniacal, spoilt, arrogant space lord with a penchant for destruction and dominance. His cruelty is amplified by his merciless laugh, and his unnerving voice cracks as he screams like a baby who doesn't get his own way. There is nobody with the same level of character as Freeza. He is Toriyama's masterpiece villain portrayed to absolute perfection by the wonderful Ryusei Nakao. I cannot wait for his return in this film. I can't imagine it will be anything but incredible.

The Bardock and Trunks specials are exceptional in their ability to tackle a much darker tone in the series while also retaining a feeling that is still very much Dragon Ball. Their villains are nowhere near to that standard.

It baffles me that we are slating this film based entirely around numerical power levels, conjecture and absurd fan-logic. There is nothing in this film that stretches very far from feats seen in the series previously. I mean, damn, people are picking at the name 'Golden Freeza' as though 'Super Saiyan' is any less absurd. There is no reason to be anything but mildly apprehensive at the most with regards to this film. Any further and I really struggle to take you the least bit seriously.

A lazy, pseudo-demi-god finally forced to do something with his natural abilities to succeed. Hell-bent on revenge for the sheer humiliation he suffered previously, he's not going to be easily defeated. Yet, we still don't know precisely how he achieves this power up. 'Four months' is being latched onto and blown entirely out of proportion.

Sensible conjecture should involve the fact we're seeing, what appears to be, nice little parallels between the two instances of Freeza. How Jaco might tie into all this and what his appearance means for the plot. Why Kamesennin is forced to get involved, and how bad things must be for Kuririn to put himself at risk after settling down with his family. These are all fun, positive lines of discussion that I really wish this thread would tackle instead of constant, unyielding pessimism over supposed continuity upsets.

Beerus is not a depth character for hell sake...

"Oh, look at me! I'm a God Of Destruction that came from nowhere, I destroy planets when I get mad, but I'm not that evil, trust me! Also I like pudding!"

Wow, real depth.

But I agree with the rest, TOEI Villains were sort vague I think...

And about your saying that you would like people to discuss about these sub-plots in FnF, I think that is a waste of time, I mean... Do you really expect they truly explain why Mutenroshi with 139 PL is there battling average Freeza soldiers with 2000 PL? I don't think they will, besides knowing Toriyama is pretty sure that Mutenroshi is the scenario for no apparent reason at all. Why the f*ck isn't Yamcha to show up? Yamcha is far more powerful... Toriyama is running out ideas, we can confirm that with this re-colored, I mean "new form" Freeza.

[Doctor.]

Goku has learned to kill when he needs to.

Which was only once against Raditz in Z.

And against Freeza, as he tried to kill him when Freeza attacked him, but didn't manage to.
And against Cell, as he told Gohan multiple times to kill him.
He was willing to kill Dabra to get Kuririn and Piccolo back.
He killed Yakon and Kid Boo.

He's not a supreme being of kindness who spares everyone, he's no Himura Kenshin or Vash the Stampede. Ever since Freeza betrayed him, he knows when he needs to kill.

[Kakarot9001]

Goku has learned to kill when he needs to.

Which was only once against Raditz in Z.

And against Freeza, as he tried to kill him when Freeza attacked him, but didn't manage to.
And against Cell, as he told Gohan multiple times to kill him.
He was willing to kill Dabra to get Kuririn and Piccolo back.
He killed Yakon and Kid Boo.

He's not a supreme being of kindness who spares everyone, he's no Himura Kenshin or Vash the Stampede. Ever since Freeza betrayed him, he knows when he needs to kill.

Measure your words, the story didn't begin in Z

how about Goku had in fact killed a thousand of RR Army soldiers? And many others like Damaioh's servants and etc.

[Doctor.]

Measure your words, the story didn't begin in Z

how about Goku had in fact killed a thousand of RR Army soldiers? And many others like Damaioh's servants and etc.

Those were different. Against the RRA, Goku didn't have a concept of what death was, he didn't even understand that he killed his own grandfather, and he thought that he became the 4 star Dragon Ball. He only learned it the hard way when Kuririn was killed. Against Daimao and all of his servants, he killed them out of revenge. He only started to spare his opponents after that because he thought they could change, but that way of thought is later corrected when Freeza outright betrays his trust.

[Ajay]

Beerus is not a depth character for hell sake...

"Oh, look at me! I'm a God Of Destruction that came from nowhere, I destroy planets when I get mad, but I'm not that evil, trust me! Also I like pudding!"

Wow, real depth.

That offers nothing of worth. You can do that to any character from any show on earth. 'Look at me, I'm the Prince of all Saiyans! I came from nowhere, I want to destroy Kakarotto but I'm also nice, I promise! Also, I love Bulma!". You don't get to mindlessly belittle a character and expect to be taken seriously. Boiling down a character to basic traits isn't accurately showcasing their true depth. If that's all you see then that's on you and is entirely independent of the character Toriyama created.

[coola]

I finally saw newest trailer, while new form looks pretty interesting, movie will need really lots of explanation, while i can somehow buy jump from 120 million to BOG level in 4 months with Freeza, it doesn't explain why Piccolo and Gohan have such hard time with Freeza minions.

[dbzfan7]

Goku has learned to kill when he needs to.

Which was only once against Raditz in Z.

And against Freeza, as he tried to kill him when Freeza attacked him, but didn't manage to.
And against Cell, as he told Gohan multiple times to kill him.
He was willing to kill Dabra to get Kuririn and Piccolo back.
He killed Yakon and Kid Boo.

He's not a supreme being of kindness who spares everyone, he's no Himura Kenshin or Vash the Stampede. Ever since Freeza betrayed him, he knows when he needs to kill.

Well within reason. He still choose piss poor times not to kill, but when he's the only hope he knows when to.

[sintzu]

And against Freeza, as he tried to kill him when Freeza attacked him, but didn't manage to.

And against Cell, as he told Gohan multiple times to kill him.

He was willing to kill Dabra to get Kuririn and Piccolo back.

He killed Yakon and Kid Boo.

Ever since Freeza betrayed him, he knows when he needs to kill.

I think he just wanted him off his back.

True.

I don't think he would have.

They're brainless demons so it was like killing a fish.

The trailer could be misleading us but I think the reason he loses to Freeza in the movie is because he holds back for whatever reason cause there's no way Vegeta's going to be stronger then Goku or at least not to the point where he'll be able to finish of a villain who defeated Goku.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Goku is kind-hearted in that he doesn't kill needlessly, but if someone is truly evil and won't stop unless they're put down for good, and it's within Goku's power (or someone he knows, in the case of Gohan), then he'll kill. But if he can beat someone without putting in that much effort, like with the Ginyu Force, he'd rather let them live and possibly change their ways.

Beerus is not a depth character for hell sake...

"Oh, look at me! I'm a God Of Destruction that came from nowhere, I destroy planets when I get mad, but I'm not that evil, trust me! Also I like pudding!"

Wow, real depth.

Pretty much every new villain 'came from nowhere'. Hell, EVERY villain did, now that I think about it, no 'pretty much' about it, so that's not really a valid complaint. And yeah, him having more going on than 'I'm the new evil guy here for you to fight grr' definitely makes him more in-depth than any DBZ movie villain before him, and on par with the regular series villains.

And about your saying that you would like people to discuss about these sub-plots in FnF, I think that is a waste of time, I mean... Do you really expect they truly explain why Mutenroshi with 139 PL is there battling average Freeza soldiers with 2000 PL? I don't think they will, besides knowing Toriyama is pretty sure that Mutenroshi is the scenario for no apparent reason at all. Why the f*ck isn't Yamcha to show up? Yamcha is far more powerful... Toriyama is running out ideas, we can confirm that with this re-colored, I mean "new form" Freeza.

You completely missed his point, and the point that so many of us have been trying to make for the longest time now. Why in the world would you want to focus so exclusively on power-related things that the story can't be the story? From the way you make it out, you'd be happy if the plot went 'Freeza soldiers show up, everyone has a nice discussion with them about the power difference (USING REAL NUMBERS YAY), and they all back off cuz uh oh, POWER LEVELS'. And that's...boring. Beyond boring. Insipid even.

[Doctor.]

I think he just wanted him off his back.

Doubt it, he legitimately tried to kill him, as Freeza forced him to. He gave him one chance to run away and another chance by giving him his Ki and Freeza wasted both of them by firing off that shot. His expression after firing the finishing blow shows sadness and disgust in his eyes because he thought Freeza could change like Piccolo and (to some extent) Vegeta did before him, but is ultimately forced to kill him.

I don't think he would have.

I doubt he'd choose having to keep Dabra alive over Piccolo and Kuririn.

They're brainless demons so it was like killing a fish.

Kid Boo perhaps, but Yakon was somewhat intelligent.

The trailer could be misleading us but I think the reason he loses to Freeza in the movie is because he holds back for whatever reason cause there's no way Vegeta's going to be stronger then Goku or at least not to the point where he'll be able to finish of a villain who defeated Goku.

Freeza could just be stronger than Goku and be weakened to the point where Vegeta, who is around Goku's level, can take him out. We see that Vegeta arrives to fight Freeza uninjured, whilst Freeza by the time he finishes off Goku, is already full of blood and scratches.

[dbzfan7]

You completely missed his point, and the point that so many of us have been trying to make for the longest time now. Why in the world would you want to focus so exclusively on power-related things that the story can't be the story? From the way you make it out, you'd be happy if the plot went 'Freeza soldiers show up, everyone has a nice discussion with them about the power difference (USING REAL NUMBERS YAY), and they all back off cuz uh oh, POWER LEVELS'. And that's...boring. Beyond boring. Insipid even.

I didn't want to get part of this, but honestly there have been story criticisms too, and Freeza's fears as character being tarnished. Agreed there's more battle power like arguments surfacing, but honestly it's like if we saw some random human pummeling on Superman, who isn't going to bring up power level like stuff there?

[Kakarot9001]

Those were different. Against the RRA, Goku didn't have a concept of what death was, he didn't even understand that he killed his own grandfather, and he thought that he became the 4 star Dragon Ball. He only learned it the hard way when Kuririn was killed. Against Daimao and all of his servants, he killed them out of revenge. He only started to spare his opponents after that because he thought they could change, but that way of thought is later corrected when Freeza outright betrays his trust.

So you think he only got the concept of what death was when he saw Krillin dead in his arms? How about when he learned that he killed his grandpa?
Kid Goku knows what was death and if was necessary he would kill the villain right way.

That offers nothing of worth. You can do that to any character from any show on earth. 'Look at me, I'm the Prince of all Saiyans! I came from nowhere, I want to destroy Kakarotto but I'm also nice, I promise! Also, I love Bulma!". You don't get to mindlessly belittle a character and expect to be taken seriously. Boiling down a character to basic traits isn't accurately showcasing the depth of a character. If that's all you see then that's on you and is entirely independent of the character Toriyama created.

Are you truly comparing Vegeta with Beerus? Please, don't

Vegeta was introduced 24 years before Beerus for god sake... He had many development through the story and now you're comparing him with a antagonist introduced in a 1 hour long movie that was launched in 2013? Come on...

You could compare Tapion with Beerus, that would be a fairer comparison than Vegeta, for sure

Also for that, Tapion is a more depth character than Beerus

[Ajay]

Are you truly comparing Vegeta with Beerus? Please, don't

No, you're missing my point again. I was simply showing you how asinine it is to boil characters down like that.

[Doctor.]

So you think he only got the concept of what death was when he saw Krillin dead in his arms? How about when he learned that he killed his grandpa?
Kid Goku knows what was death and if was necessary he would kill the villain right way.

He only learned he killed his grandfather when he fought Vegeta. It's possible that he learned what death truly meant when he met his grandfather again, but that was still after he slaughtered all of the Red Ribbon soldiers. Again, he didn't know what death meant because he even thought his grandfather became the 4 star Dragon Ball.

That's impossible to say because the last villain he kills was for revenge, Daimao, and after that he spares most people as an adult. My interpretation of the character has some truth to it, I'm not making stuff up.