Official DBZ 2015 Movie Power Discussion: "Resurrection F"

[DBZGTKOSDH]

The greater the prodigy Freeza is and the easier it is for him to gain power, the more lazy and stupid he appears to be for never training, especially after Namek.

It's in Freeza's character to be stupid because of his own arrogance, just like with Vegeta, Cell, and Gotenks. He couldn't swallow the fact that a Saiyan had surpassed him during his fight on Namek, and he was so arrogant that he thought that his cybernetics had definitely made him stronger than Goku, especially with his dad on his side.

[ZazamPow]

Your talent at speaking and explaining astounds me. Congratulations, it's open minded people like you that make this forum worth visiting.

I don't need to explain something you are assuming from nothing. So yeah, little open minded genius.

The entire premise of FnF is that Freeza never trained before, he directly stated it in the prequel manga. In case you couldn't figure it out, that was sarcasm when I called you open minded, what I actually meant was that you're completely ignorant but like to pretend you know what you're talking about, just like oh so many average people on internet forums, and rather than making this forum worth visiting, it would actually be much better if people like you with nothing to actually add to the discussion besides attempts to make yourself feel cool just left.

[ZazamPow]

I don't know if this has been said, but. Kaioshin is stronger than Freeza, far stronger. We never got an indication that he trained, and then he is fused. So, by this movie's logic... shouldn't he train 3 hours and have God level power?

Well Supreme Kai isn't a regular person, he was born specifically to become the Supreme Kai, so I think we can presume that his power is basically set in stone so to speak, whereas Freeza is a mutant prodigy who has room to grow just like every other 'regular' life form.

[dbzfan7]

Finally, I can't wait for the return of Cell. He has the perfect combination of DNA from nameks, saiyans and freeza's race, and he never trained, so imagine the prodigy he is! He will train for a month and become stronger than a fusion of Beerus and Whis.

Look forward to Fukkatsu no C then. Where he gets revived, and even though his beef was with Gohan, it'll somehow go to Goku. I'm shocked they haven't just retconed the Cell Games to having Goku save the day, and then die from doing so.

[rereboy]

The greater the prodigy Freeza is and the easier it is for him to gain power, the more lazy and stupid he appears to be for never training, especially after Namek.

It's in Freeza's character to be stupid because of his own arrogance, just like with Vegeta, Cell, and Gotenks. He couldn't swallow the fact that a Saiyan had surpassed him during his fight on Namek, and he was so arrogant that he thought that his cybernetics had definitely made him stronger than Goku, especially with his dad on his side.

In my opinion, you are judging his character too superficially. It was clearly shown in the manga that Freeza might be arrogant in the heat of the moment when he is fighting, but he is also very careful regarding possible threats to him and his empire. That was the reason why he got rid of planet Vegeta and why he called the Ginyu force to Namek even when Zarbon thought there was no need and he even correctly predicted that serious trouble was about to arise for them. Freeza was shown to be able to coldly analyze a situation and not take unnecessary chances.

This new movie forgets all about that and reduces Freeza to a lazy, stupid and arrogant character that got killed because he was too much of a diva to train, when there was actually more to him in the manga.

[Low Tone G]

I find a bit ridiculous that we already have this thread way before the movie is out... but my speculation is this:

I assume that Vegeta got Saiyan God evolution off-screen to waste no time in the movie(maybe we'll get flashaback about it).

GP - God power based on the Beerus', Whis' and Saiyan God Goku's official power level from a BOG related tidbit from Mr. Akira Toriyama himself.

Son Gohan: 60.000.000
- Super Saiyan: 85.000.000.000
- Possible Ultimate/Mystic: 90.000.000.000
- Ki stolen: 15.000

Piccolo: 2.000.000.000
- Ki stolen: 5.000

Krillin: 1.200.000
- Ki stolen: 14.000

Lazuli (Android 18): 400.000.000

Tenshinhan: 120.000
- Ki stolen: 2.600

Master Roshi: 180

Jaco: 20

Freeza's puppets: 10 - 20.000

Freeza:
- 1st form: 530.000.000.000
- 2nd form: 1.250.000.000.000
- 3rd form: 2.000.000.000.000
- True form's full power: 900.000.000.000.000 ~ 0.9 GP
- Ultimate Golden God Evolution: 8.5 GP
- Powered down a bit after deafeating Goku: 8.1 GP

Son Goku:
- Suppressed for fun: 1 GP
- Full power after the training with Whis: 7.5 GP

Vegeta:
- Full power after traning with Whis: 8 GP

Beerus:
- Full power: 10 GP

Whis:
- Full power - powered up a bit after the training with the two new pupils: 16 GP

[Kamiccolo9]

I find a bit ridiculous that we already have this threah way before the movie is out... but my speculation is this:

Exactly. How is one supposed to offer any kind of speculation and expect to be taken seriously when there is practically no information upon which to base what is being speculated? This thread is way too premature. If anything, it should be in the fan works discussion, because we don't have any real in-universe information to discuss at this point.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

In my opinion, you are judging his character too superficially. It was clearly shown in the manga that Freeza might be arrogant in the heat of the moment when he is fighting, but he is also very careful regarding possible threats to him and his empire. That was the reason why he got rid of planet Vegeta and why he called the Ginyu force to Namek even when Zarbon thought there was no need and he even correctly predicted that serious trouble was about to arise for them. Freeza was shown to be able to coldly analyze a situation and not take unnecessary chances.

This new movie forgets all about that and reduces Freeza to a lazy, stupid and arrogant character that got killed because he was too much of a diva to train, when there was actually more to him in the manga.

And he believed that with his new power-up & his dad on his side, there was no chance of him losing. He didn't train for the same reason he never trained before in his life: he didn't believe it was necessary. Plus, it doesn't look like he was in a good condition to train after Namek. He was always lazy since the manga, since he could have gone to Namek alone to get the Dragon Balls, and he would have done a much better job. He wouldn't have Zarbon to kill Vegeta, and he wouldn't have called the Ginyu Tokusentai after Zarbon's failure. He could have gone there, easily kill Vegeta, Gohan, etc, and all of his problems would have been solved. Instead, he chose to bring his chair & his men, and waited for every single one of them to die in order for him to make a move.

[rereboy]

And he believed that with his new power-up & his dad on his side, there was no chance of him losing. He didn't train for the same reason he never trained before in his life: he didn't believe it was necessary. Plus, it doesn't look like he was in a good condition to train after Namek. He was always lazy since the manga, since he could have gone to Namek alone to get the Dragon Balls, and he would have done a much better job. He wouldn't have Zarbon to kill Vegeta, and he wouldn't have called the Ginyu Tokusentai after Zarbon's failure. He could have gone there, easily kill Vegeta, Gohan, etc, and all of his problems would have been solved. Instead, he chose to bring his chair & his men, and waited for every single one of them to die in order for him to make a move.

Freeza went to Earth when he was sure he was more powerful than before and he brought powerful back-up. This attitude shows his arrogance and need for revenge, but also his careful thinking. He didn't go to Earth without knowing he was more powerful and stronger, according to his estimate, than Goku, and, just in case, he brought along back-up (Cold).

That's what exists in the manga. Freeza being true to the character that had been established earlier. Namely, an arrogant dictator who loves to rule and command others to do his bidding for him, but also a careful planner who doesn't just leave things to chance.

Freeza has all these described elements in his personality. He isn't just simply lazy, arrogant and stupid, and that's perfectly clear in the manga.

But is this movie coherent with this? No, this movie tells us that Freeza knew all along that he would become astronomically more powerful if he trained for a little while. Which means that this movie positively presents a Freeza who is just arrogant, lazy and stupid, instead of the arrogant dictator who loves to rule and command others to do his bidding for him but that is also a careful planner who doesn't just leave things to chance from the manga.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

You are making it sound as if Freeza is a tactical genius. Freeza is a lazy & arrogant pure evil emperor that prefers to have others to do his job, and couldn't swallow the fact that he was surpassed by Goku. He really was a fool, since he didn't give up when Goku gave him the chance to do so twice, and he paid the price heavily... twice. And he was still so arrogant that he believed that his new power-up definitely made him stronger than Goku, because he is the mighty Freeza with his might dad as a backup, and no one must be above him. And again, he paid the price of his arrogance for a 3rd time, by getting killed by Goku/Trunks...

[rereboy]

You are making it sound as if Freeza is a tactical genius. Freeza is a lazy & arrogant pure evil emperor that prefers to have others to do his job, and couldn't swallow the fact that he was surpassed by Goku. He really was a fool, since he didn't give up when Goku gave him the chance to do so twice, and he paid the price heavily... twice. And he was still so arrogant that he believed that his new power-up definitely made him stronger than Goku, because he is the mighty Freeza with his might dad as a backup, and no one must be above him. And again, he paid the price of his arrogance for a 3rd time, by getting killed by Goku/Trunks...

Where am I saying that he is a tactical genius...? Freeza is no genius, but he does take precautions. He doesn't leave things to chance. He plans. AKA, he is not just a lazy idiot.

Basically, what I am saying is that the manga shows us that Freeza is not a complete idiot at all. In the manga, his arrogance and his pleasure in having others do his bidding don't stop him from being careful and deploying preventive measures, even when others think that those measures are too much, like when Zarbon thought that calling the Ginyu force was unnecessary.

Like I said, even when Freeza went to Earth, he only went when he was sure he was more powerful than before and stronger than what he estimated for Goku, and he brought Cold with him just in case. His only mistake was his estimate for Goku (and Trunks) being off, but honestly, it would be impossible for him to be 100% sure that Goku would meet his expectation. It was always possible that Goku would be stronger than Freeza estimated. Estimates aren't fail-proof.

So, in short, Freeza only had two choices: don't confront Goku, thus never risking the chance that his estimate might be wrong but sacrificing his pride instead, or confront Goku after being sure that he had taken the appropriate precautions for the face-off, namely, making sure than he was more powerful and stronger than what he expected for Goku and bringing Cold along just in case.

But the movie tears this all apart and portrays him as a complete idiot, a slave to laziness, since, with a few months, Freeza could have had iron-clad precautions and be Beerus level. These precautions he took instead are, in light of this movie, laughable and idiotic and so is Freeza. Freeza might have had a degree of arrogance and perhaps even laziness in the manga, due to fact that he loved to order people around, but never to idiotic level, like this movie portrays.

[Kamiccolo9]

Nappa was 4000, not 6000. There is another source that gives Nappa 4500, but whatever.

I did say his max and it seems heavily indicated that it is 6k at tops. Even Team Four Star cleverly says as much. Right around here - http://youtu.be/GXeOlcctd9g?t=1m38s

"Nappa is worth five Raditz. And I am worth fifteen Raditz."

Raditz PL = 1200
5 x 1200 = 6000
15 x 1200 = 18000

Seems legit to me.

Team Four Star is not a valid source for any in-universe anything, Raditz is officially 1,500, and Nappa can't raise or suppress his Battle Power anyway.

[RandomGuy96]

Plus, it just wouldn't sound as impressive to say: "Congratulations, you just destroyed the equivalent of three Raditz. Nappa here is worth 2.66 Raditz, which means those three Saibamen you destroyed were worth more than Nappa. Well, not really, but the Saibamens' power levels add up to more than 4,000, which is Nappa's power level. However, he has all of that power in one place rather than spread over three bodies, so he can make better use of it and destroy all of you. Kick their asses, Nappa."

[Doctor.]

Nappa can't raise or suppress his Battle Power anyway.

He kinda powered-up prior to fighting them.

And I doubt the official 4,000 are correct when he managed to do a decent job against Goku, and the latter even noted he couldn't win without the Kaioken.

[RandomGuy96]

Nappa can't raise or suppress his Battle Power anyway.

He kinda powered-up prior to fighting them.

And I doubt the official 4,000 are correct when he managed to do a decent job against Goku, and the latter even noted he couldn't win without the Kaioken.

1. He displayed more power, but he explicitly can't change his power level.

2. He got absolutely destroyed by Goku, never laying a finger on him once and getting his "greatest technique" effortlessly overpowered by an uncharged ki blast at point blank range.

3. Goku never said that.

[rereboy]

Nappa can't raise or suppress his Battle Power anyway.

He kinda powered-up prior to fighting them.

And I doubt the official 4,000 are correct when he managed to do a decent job against Goku, and the latter even noted he couldn't win without the Kaioken.

Its clear in the manga that, in the saiyan saga, only Earthlings could alter their power level. Nappa only has one power level. He can concentrate to be more effective, and display his power more ferociously, but his reading on a scouter wouldn't change.

[Doctor.]

1. He displayed more power, but he explicitly can't change his power level.

If he has a state with increased power, and can change between his powered-up and unpowered self, then yes he can. Sure, he can't control it so precisely, up to the single digits, like the others can, but that's besides the point.

2. He got absolutely destroyed by Goku, never laying a finger on him once and getting his "greatest technique" effortlessly overpowered by an uncharged ki blast at point blank range.

It wasn't a generic Ki blast, it was a Kamehameha and he specifically notes that had he took that head-on he'd be hurt, as well as noting that the fight may "take forever".

3. Goku never said that.

You're right, my mistake. But, as I stated above, he did say the fight would take a while and when Nappa was flying towards Gohan and Kuririn, Goku had to use the Kaioken to get there in time.

[Kakarot9001]

Finally, I can't wait for the return of Cell. He has the perfect combination of DNA from nameks, saiyans and freeza's race, and he never trained, so imagine the prodigy he is! He will train for a month and become stronger than a fusion of Beerus and Whis.

Look forward to Fukkatsu no C then. Where he gets revived, and even though his beef was with Gohan, it'll somehow go to Goku. I'm shocked they haven't just retconed the Cell Games to having Goku save the day, and then die from doing so.

Wow, I laughed really hard right now...

Too bad that all that overpower deployed in BoG and now in RoF make me sick

[RandomGuy96]

1. He displayed more power, but he explicitly can't change his power level.

If he has a state with increased power, and can change between his powered-up and unpowered self, then yes he can. Sure, he can't control it so precisely, up to the single digits, like the others can, but that's besides the point.

2. He got absolutely destroyed by Goku, never laying a finger on him once and getting his "greatest technique" effortlessly overpowered by an uncharged ki blast at point blank range.

It wasn't a generic Ki blast, it was a Kamehameha and he specifically notes that had he took that head-on he'd be hurt, as well as noting that the fight may "take forever".

3. Goku never said that.

You're right, my mistake. But, as I stated above, he did say the fight would take a while and when Nappa was flying towards Gohan and Kuririn, Goku had to use the Kaioken to get there in time.

1. No, he can't do it at all. Vegeta is explicit about this, and Nappa doubts that changing battle powers is even a thing until Vegeta tells him otherwise.

2. Who said generic? I said uncharged. Which it was. He also overpowered Nappa's attack at point blank range, meaning he had time to react to it and form that blast as a counter. Even that quickly formed blast was too much for Nappa's "greatest technique".

3. Nappa had a head start.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Freeza might have had a degree of arrogance and perhaps even laziness in the manga, due to fact that he loved to order people around, but never to idiotic level, like this movie portrays.

Yeah, he didn't try to desperately kill Goku, even though he was getting tired & weaker and Goku showed him mercy and left... and even after he got sliced in half by his own attack, and was given mercy & some energy for Goku to leave, he didn't waste it in a stupid attack...

As much as I like Freeza, he was always a lazy & arrogant fool in the manga. Goku told him to train, yet he felt he was fine with his cybernetic power-up. Freeza is cautious, but he isn't 100% cautious. He was afraid of the Super Saiyans so he killed all Saiyans, but he didn't bother to kill Vegeta, Nappa, and Raditz because he thought he could still use them without any dangers, which was, eventually, his downfall. Had he killed them, Goku would have stayed on Earth forever, and they would have never crossed paths, and he wouldn't get killed.

I can see why people get mad at Freeza having such huge gains in such a short time, but I fail to see how it ruins Freeza's character. Everything we know so far is very in-character for Freeza.