General "Canon/Filler" Debate/Discussion

[RandomGuy96]

Since there is no official canon or continuity (unless you count the Chozenshuu timeline), I consider everything to be "in continuity" with everything else unless it contradicts the source material. So I don't consider Minus, FNF, or BOG to be in continuity.

[Sandubadear]

Since there is no official canon or continuity (unless you count the Chozenshuu timeline), I consider everything to be "in continuity" with everything else unless it contradicts the source material. So I don't consider Minus, FNF, or BOG to be in continuity.

Don't let the fanboys read your comment.

[Dyno]

Here is not your Dragon Ball wiki where one's opinion can be put as a real statement/an official thing. Here are just opinions being shared.

[Kamiccolo9]

Here is not your Dragon Ball wiki where one's opinion can be put as a real statement/an official thing. Here are just opinions being shared.

There's no "opinion" to be discussed. The term "canon," the way you all are using it, does not exist in Dragon Ball.

Taking the actual definition of the word, all official story information put out by the rights holders is the Dragon Ball canon.

[Dyno]

Yes, there are. As brought upon us by some folks with "In my opinion" and its similarities.

[Doctor.]

Since there is no official canon or continuity (unless you count the Chozenshuu timeline), I consider everything to be "in continuity" with everything else unless it contradicts the source material. So I don't consider Minus, FNF, or BOG to be in continuity.

I'm curious, what doesn't contradict the source material?

[Kamiccolo9]

Yes, there are. As brought upon us by some folks with "In my opinion" and its similarities.

Adding "in my opinion" in front of a statement does not make a statement valid. As I just said, what you are attributing to the word "canon" does not exist in Dragon Ball. That is not an opinion. That is an objective fact.

Since there is no official canon or continuity (unless you count the Chozenshuu timeline), I consider everything to be "in continuity" with everything else unless it contradicts the source material. So I don't consider Minus, FNF, or BOG to be in continuity.

I'm curious, what doesn't contradict the source material?

The source material contradicts the source material.

[Kakarot9001]

I quite disagree some of your statements because you're actually disguising to be taking in consideration official statements, but in fact taking you're basing in your personal taste.

You liked Episode Of Bardock, okay... So then it could be canon for you but I don't think is that how things works

But for me is simple, I have two rules to define what is canon or not:

First Rule: "What came first?"
I use that to define that TV Special is canon and Minus is not.
TV Special 2 showing Trunks transformation in SSJ after Gohan's death and not the manga released after telling about the story itself.

Second Rule: "It fits?"
I use that to define movies and etc. that can easily fit in the original storyline like TV Special 1 (Bardock), 2 (Trunks), Movie 9 (Bojack), Movie 13 (Hirudegarn), Movie 14 (Beerus) and maybe RoF but I really want this movie to have big contradictions with EoZ because this movie contradicts GT and I want GT to be canon, but for GT be canon RoF can't exists.

[Kamiccolo9]

I quite disagree some of your statements because you're actually disguising to be taking in consideration official statements, but in fact taking you're basing in your personal taste.

You liked Episode Of Bardock, okay... So then it could be canon for you but I don't think is that how things works

But for me is simple, I have two rules to define what is canon or not:

First Rule: "What came first?"
I use that to define that TV Special is canon and Minus is not.
TV Special 2 showing Trunks transformation in SSJ after Gohan's death and not the manga released after telling about the story itself.

Second Rule: "It fits?"
I use that to define movies and etc. that can easily fit in the original storyline like TV Special 1 (Bardock), 2 (Trunks), Movie 9 (Bojack), Movie 13 (Hirudegarn), Movie 14 (Beerus) and maybe RoF but I really want this movie to have big contradictions with EoZ because this movie contradicts GT and I want GT to be canon, but for GT be canon RoF can't exists.

That's not how a canon works.

[Kakarot9001]

That's not how a canon works.

That how it works for me, is not that hard you know...

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Since there is no official canon or continuity (unless you count the Chozenshuu timeline), I consider everything to be "in continuity" with everything else unless it contradicts the source material. So I don't consider Minus, FNF, or BOG to be in continuity.

I'm curious, what doesn't contradict the source material?

The source material contradicts the source material.

If we disregard everything that contradicts something, the story ends in chapter 53.

[Kamiccolo9]

If we disregard everything that contradicts something, the story ends in chapter 53.

Exactly. So where do we draw the line? If we're willing to accept some contradictions but not others, then what's the point of this discussion in the first place, if it's so arbitrary?

[Mewzard]

First Rule: "What came first?"
I use that to define that TV Special is canon and Minus is not.
TV Special 2 showing Trunks transformation in SSJ after Gohan's death and not the manga released after telling about the story itself.

Actually, I'm pretty sure the manga version of the Trunks story came out first.

[Kamiccolo9]

First Rule: "What came first?"
I use that to define that TV Special is canon and Minus is not.
TV Special 2 showing Trunks transformation in SSJ after Gohan's death and not the manga released after telling about the story itself.

Actually, I'm pretty sure the manga version of the Trunks story came out first.

Following this "what came out first" rule, does that mean that the edits in the Kanzenban are "less canon" than the original?

[Kakarot9001]

Actually, I'm pretty sure the manga version of the Trunks story came out first.

I'm afraid that I have to say that you're wrong

Following this "what came out first" rule, does that mean that the edits in the Kanzenban are "less canon" than the original?

Probably, because why Vegeta would admit that Goku is superior and then just say in the final chapter: "I'll surpass you someday" it makes no sense. But I like Kanzenban ending because it fits with GT Vegeta thoughts

[Gaffer Tape]

Actually, I'm pretty sure the manga version of the Trunks story came out first.

I'm afraid that I have to say that you're wrong

Well, let's see. Trunks: The Story (the manga chapter) was released on August 11, 1992.

Defiance in the Face of Despair!! The Remaining Super Warriors -- Gohan and Trunks (the TV special based on it) premiered on February 24, 1993.

So, yes. You have reason to be afraid.

[Kamiccolo9]

Following this "what came out first" rule, does that mean that the edits in the Kanzenban are "less canon" than the original?

Probably, because why Vegeta would admit that Goku is superior and then just say in the final chapter: "I'll surpass you someday" it makes no sense. But I like Kanzenban ending because it fits with GT Vegeta thoughts

So, Vegeta has a power level of 20,000 after his zenkai from his beating from Zarbon then?

[Dyno]

It was stated way before the manga came out first, why do they insist in the mistake?

[Low Tone G]

In my view there is only one source that allows us to accept something to be canon or to be in a same contiuity - Elements of anime/manga which was created by Toriyama himself or incorporated in the main story - had an influence on the main storyline.

In that way:

Jaco the Galactic Partolman: A gag manga drawn by Mr. Akira Toriyama himself and described as the Shocking Revival of Dragon Ball, and considered a true prequel.
The original Dragon Ball manga + Dragon Ball Minus bonus comic: No need to tell about the original manga, but Dragon Ball Minus was drawn by Toriyama himself so it's in the same continuity. I treat Bardock to have that personality instead of FoG Bardock(even though I like that Bardock better).
Yo! Son Goku and his friends return OVA: I consider its manga version to have a chance to be canon as it wasn't drawn by Toriyama himself, but based on his idea.
Special chapter of Trunks from the future(manga version): It's totally drawn by Toriyama himself, so I accept it canon, no more argument about it.
Original Script of Kami to Kami 2013 DBZ movie: I can not argue for the movie itself to be totally canon, but the 3-chapters long script it must be. And if Tarble is mentioned, only him I allow myself to consider to be a real character in the original story.
Original Script of Fukkatsu no F 2015 DBZ movie: Just like with the Kami to Kami only its written version I can count to be in the coninuity. As for Jaco to appear, I can take that like a try from Toriyama to link this new story even more to the original story itself.

Others tidbits to be facts in the story: Toriyama's interviews and comments which have not been shown in the manga or anime, but being him the original father I must let him free to add facts to the story.

I can't consider the DBZ anime-fillers to be canon, that's that.

Other anime and manga stuffs I don't treat to be events or its characters to exist in the story.

[rereboy]

And as mentioned in my thread the other day, your view of what being a spinoff series means in terms of it's canonicity is incorrect, and it has no relationship with what it actually means.

The term "spinoff" doesn't necessarily mean that it can't be canon, but it is a term that implies a degree of differentiation regarding the older work. In a franchise where canon is not established and where the terms canon and continuity are never used, something being called a spin-off by the author is the closest anything has ever gotten to be officially classified as non-canon.