Official DBZ 2015 Movie Power Discussion: "Resurrection F"

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
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Re: Official DBZ 2015 Movie Power Discussion: "Fukkatsu no F

Post by Doctor. » Sun Mar 08, 2015 9:16 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:1. No, he can't do it at all. Vegeta is explicit about this, and Nappa doubts that changing battle powers is even a thing until Vegeta tells him otherwise.
Doesn't Vegeta later on do the same thing, though?
2. Who said generic? I said uncharged. Which it was. He also overpowered Nappa's attack at point blank range, meaning he had time to react to it and form that blast as a counter. Even that quickly formed blast was too much for Nappa's "greatest technique".
Doesn't exclude the fact that Goku acknowledges how strong Nappa is. He wouldn't do so if he were two times stronger.
3. Nappa had a head start.
And yet, if the 4,000 battle power were true, at 8,000, Goku would be twice as quick and catch up to him.

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Re: Official DBZ 2015 Movie Power Discussion: "Fukkatsu no F

Post by RandomGuy96 » Sun Mar 08, 2015 9:18 pm

Doctor. wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:1. No, he can't do it at all. Vegeta is explicit about this, and Nappa doubts that changing battle powers is even a thing until Vegeta tells him otherwise.
Doesn't Vegeta later on do the same thing, though?
2. Who said generic? I said uncharged. Which it was. He also overpowered Nappa's attack at point blank range, meaning he had time to react to it and form that blast as a counter. Even that quickly formed blast was too much for Nappa's "greatest technique".
Doesn't exclude the fact that Goku acknowledges how strong Nappa is. He wouldn't do so if he were two times stronger.
3. Nappa had a head start.
And yet, if the 4,000 battle power were true, at 8,000, Goku would be twice as quick and catch up to him.
1. You mean scream and flare his aura?

2. Why he couldn't he? Clearly, he's way stronger than Nappa is. He treats him like a baby.

3. Again, he had a head start. If Goku was twice as fast, that just meant Nappa had a big head start.
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RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
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Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Official DBZ 2015 Movie Power Discussion: "Fukkatsu no F

Post by rereboy » Sun Mar 08, 2015 9:19 pm

Doctor. wrote:
Doesn't Vegeta later on do the same thing, though?
That's just them concentrating their power, either for display or for being more effective in their attacks. If Goku had a scouter, their power level wouldn't change a bit.

What the Earthlings do is different. In one moment, they just have X power, and the rest is "stored", thus the scouter only picks up on the X power. But when they bring out what they had stored, the scouter suddenly picks up all of it. Thus, they change their power level.
DBZGTKOSDH wrote: Yeah, he didn't try to desperately kill Goku, even though he was getting tired & weaker and Goku showed him mercy and left... and even after he got sliced in half by his own attack, and was given mercy & some energy for Goku to leave, he didn't waste it in a stupid attack...
That was Freeza breaking down after being bested for the first time in his life. He was freaking out and that's why he attacked Goku. In the heat of that moment, it is understandable why he just freaked out instead of being smarter. What is not understandable is Freeza, when not in the heat of the moment, taking weeks or months to get to Earth and taking significant precautions to face-off against Goku after being nearly killed by him, instead of just spending that time training and becoming Beerus level like he knew he could.

Like I said, Freeza being arrogant and all that is indeed in the manga, but that's not all of him the manga shows, and never to the idiotic level this movie portrays.
As much as I like Freeza, he was always a lazy & arrogant fool in the manga. Goku told him to train, yet he felt he was fine with his cybernetic power-up.
You have no idea if Freeza is stronger because he has robot parts now. It is never said why Freeza is stronger now. For all we know, he could have actually trained to increase his power to a level he thought would best Goku. You are just assuming that he didn't and extrapolating a conclusion based on that unconfirmed assumption.

Anyway, like I said, my point is not that he isn't arrogant and that he doesn't prefer to have others do his bidding than doing stuff himself. My point is that that's not all he is, but he movie portrays him as only ever being just an arrogant, stupid, lazy fool.
Freeza is cautious, but he isn't 100% cautious.
And I never claimed he was 100% cautious. If he was, he would have left Goku alone and he would never challenge him. But just like he isn't simply an arrogant dictator that likes to have others do his bidding, he also isn't just a cautious planner. His personality embodies all of these elements together. The problem with the movie is that it makes his arrogance and lazy part completely overblown, portraying him to an idiotic level that was never in the manga, and reducing him to just arrogance and laziness, when he was more before.
Last edited by rereboy on Sun Mar 08, 2015 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Official DBZ 2015 Movie Power Discussion: "Fukkatsu no F

Post by Drayenko » Sun Mar 08, 2015 9:57 pm

ZazamPow wrote: The entire premise of FnF is that Freeza never trained before, he directly stated it in the prequel manga. In case you couldn't figure it out, that was sarcasm when I called you open minded, what I actually meant was that you're completely ignorant but like to pretend you know what you're talking about, just like oh so many average people on internet forums, and rather than making this forum worth visiting, it would actually be much better if people like you with nothing to actually add to the discussion besides attempts to make yourself feel cool just left.
Hahahahaha, you douche. Yeah, I'm a total dick.

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Re: Official DBZ 2015 Movie Power Discussion: "Fukkatsu no F

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:02 pm

Drayenko wrote:
ZazamPow wrote: The entire premise of FnF is that Freeza never trained before, he directly stated it in the prequel manga. In case you couldn't figure it out, that was sarcasm when I called you open minded, what I actually meant was that you're completely ignorant but like to pretend you know what you're talking about, just like oh so many average people on internet forums, and rather than making this forum worth visiting, it would actually be much better if people like you with nothing to actually add to the discussion besides attempts to make yourself feel cool just left.
Hahahahaha, you douche. Yeah, I'm a total dick.
You're making a real good showing of yourself, man.

On the Nappa thing, there's also the fact that Goku didn't just have to catch up to Nappa, he had to stop him before he could finish firing off his attack. The Kaio-Ken was necessary because of Nappa's head start, not because of any parity of strength between he and Goku.
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Re: Official DBZ 2015 Movie Power Discussion: "Fukkatsu no F

Post by Drayenko » Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:29 pm

So, he insults me and I'm making a show. Good.

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Re: Official DBZ 2015 Movie Power Discussion: "Fukkatsu no F

Post by SSJGFrieza » Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:28 am

>Andriods 16, 17, 18, 19, 20
>Cell
>Dabura
>Every form of Buu
>Piccolo
>Trunks
>Goten
>Gotenks
>Mystic Gohan
>Vegeta
>Goku
>Vegito

Freeza leapfrogged them with just 4 months of training. It's comical.

Yet Freeza being back on top feels so right.
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Re: Official DBZ 2015 Movie Power Discussion: "Fukkatsu no F

Post by MajinMan » Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:48 am

SSJGFrieza wrote:>Andriods 16, 17, 18, 19, 20
>Cell
>Dabura
>Every form of Buu
>Piccolo
>Trunks
>Goten
>Gotenks
>Mystic Gohan
>Vegeta
>Goku
>Vegito

Freeza leapfrogged them with just 4 months of training. It's comical.

Yet Freeza being back on top feels so right.
19 and 20 are debatable, I personally don't think they're stronger than Freeza because they didn't watch the fights on Namek to prepare for something of that magnitude.
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Re: Official DBZ 2015 Movie Power Discussion: "Fukkatsu no F

Post by dario03 » Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:34 am

SSJGFrieza wrote:>Andriods 16, 17, 18, 19, 20
>Cell
>Dabura
>Every form of Buu
>Piccolo
>Trunks
>Goten
>Gotenks
>Mystic Gohan
>Vegeta
>Goku
>Vegito

Freeza leapfrogged them with just 4 months of training. It's comical.

Yet Freeza being back on top feels so right.
I really hope there is more to his power gain than just the 4 months of training.
How did he know that would be enough time to surpass Goku?
Why did he stop at 4 months? Was he just that impatient? Did he hit a plateau and didn't think he could ever pass it?
Because if 4 months gave him such a big boost, why not train a bit more? Heck with 5 months of training he would probably be like 1000x as powerful as Whis. Have him fight SSJG Gogeta or Whis and Beerus fused :wtf:

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Re: Official DBZ 2015 Movie Power Discussion: "Fukkatsu no F

Post by ZazamPow » Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:57 pm

dario03 wrote:
SSJGFrieza wrote:>Andriods 16, 17, 18, 19, 20
>Cell
>Dabura
>Every form of Buu
>Piccolo
>Trunks
>Goten
>Gotenks
>Mystic Gohan
>Vegeta
>Goku
>Vegito

Freeza leapfrogged them with just 4 months of training. It's comical.

Yet Freeza being back on top feels so right.
I really hope there is more to his power gain than just the 4 months of training.
How did he know that would be enough time to surpass Goku?
Why did he stop at 4 months? Was he just that impatient? Did he hit a plateau and didn't think he could ever pass it?
Because if 4 months gave him such a big boost, why not train a bit more? Heck with 5 months of training he would probably be like 1000x as powerful as Whis. Have him fight SSJG Gogeta or Whis and Beerus fused :wtf:
Remember, Freeza wasn't expecting Godku, he was expecting a Goku that can beat Majin Buu. He was never told that Goku can now fight Beerus, just that he killed Majin Buu. There's quite a disparity between Buu and Godku, so if Freeza trained to the point where he can at least fight on par with Godku, then that means he actually was very precautions for what he was expecting.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:I swear, the Gohan fanboys won't be happy unless he just bends over and farts all of Freeza's men into the sun.
fadeddreams5 wrote: Honestly, this would only make me slightly satisfied. To make me happy, he'd also have to grab Freeza by the tail, drag him to the nearest toilet, and give him swirlies until he submits and calls him "daddy."

Gohan deserves it.

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Re: Official DBZ 2015 Movie Power Discussion: "Fukkatsu no F

Post by Kakarot9001 » Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:05 pm

dario03 wrote:I really hope there is more to his power gain than just the 4 months of training.
How did he know that would be enough time to surpass Goku?
Why did he stop at 4 months? Was he just that impatient? Did he hit a plateau and didn't think he could ever pass it?
Because if 4 months gave him such a big boost, why not train a bit more? Heck with 5 months of training he would probably be like 1000x as powerful as Whis. Have him fight SSJG Gogeta or Whis and Beerus fused :wtf:
I want to think that these 4 months is training time-limit to Freeza race in particular... And that he can't train more because he already reached the peak of his potential.

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Re: Official DBZ 2015 Movie Power Discussion: "Fukkatsu no F

Post by Zephyr » Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:08 pm

Aren't we also assuming that Freeza knows Buu's precise strength to any extent beyond "he's way out of my league"?

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Re: Official DBZ 2015 Movie Power Discussion: "Fukkatsu no F

Post by Sandubadear » Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:10 pm

Buu has been locked for the past five million years, it's impressive that King Cold even knew about him. He probably only heard the legend of a "monster" and that's it.
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Re: Official DBZ 2015 Movie Power Discussion: "Fukkatsu no F

Post by Kaboom » Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:13 pm

Drayenko wrote:
ZazamPow wrote:The entire premise of FnF is that Freeza never trained before, he directly stated it in the prequel manga. In case you couldn't figure it out, that was sarcasm when I called you open minded, what I actually meant was that you're completely ignorant but like to pretend you know what you're talking about, just like oh so many average people on internet forums, and rather than making this forum worth visiting, it would actually be much better if people like you with nothing to actually add to the discussion besides attempts to make yourself feel cool just left.
Hahahahaha, you douche. Yeah, I'm a total dick.
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Re: Official DBZ 2015 Movie Power Discussion: "Fukkatsu no F

Post by Lord Beerus » Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:53 pm

ZazamPow wrote:
dario03 wrote: I really hope there is more to his power gain than just the 4 months of training.
How did he know that would be enough time to surpass Goku?
Why did he stop at 4 months? Was he just that impatient? Did he hit a plateau and didn't think he could ever pass it?
Because if 4 months gave him such a big boost, why not train a bit more? Heck with 5 months of training he would probably be like 1000x as powerful as Whis. Have him fight SSJG Gogeta or Whis and Beerus fused :wtf:
Remember, Freeza wasn't expecting Godku, he was expecting a Goku that can beat Majin Buu. He was never told that Goku can now fight Beerus, just that he killed Majin Buu. There's quite a disparity between Buu and Godku, so if Freeza trained to the point where he can at least fight on par with Godku, then that means he actually was very precautions for what he was expecting.
This would also mean Freeza has become dangerously genre savvy and realised it's better to train to reach his absolute peak and skipped the Super Evolution stage that Cooler went through and went straight the apex of his races form/transformation, Ultimate Evolution, so that he could be certain he could stomp Goku into the dirt the next time they would clash.

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Re: Official DBZ 2015 Movie Power Discussion: "Fukkatsu no F

Post by VegettoEX » Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:46 pm

Issuing account strikes. These add up to temporary/permanent bans which revoke access to the ENTIRETY of the Kanzenshuu website.

Reevaluate what it is you're looking to get out of your time here, and how it comes across that these battle power / strength comparison discussions are consistently the ones that result in accounts strikes.
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Re: Official DBZ 2015 Movie Power Discussion: "Fukkatsu no F

Post by Hugo Boss » Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:59 pm

Is there any possibility that Goku's power in this movie will be significantly below the level he was against Beerus? At the same time his regular form would be almost as strong as Pure Boo and Freeza's evolution would more or less close to this level. I mean, Xenoverse and the final chapter may suggest something like that regarding Goku.

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Re: Official DBZ 2015 Movie Power Discussion: "Fukkatsu no F

Post by ZazamPow » Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:23 am

Hugo Boss wrote:Is there any possibility that Goku's power in this movie will be significantly below the level he was against Beerus? At the same time his regular form would be almost as strong as Pure Boo and Freeza's evolution would more or less close to this level. I mean, Xenoverse and the final chapter may suggest something like that regarding Goku.
That would be bad. Who would want to see a DBZ movie about power regression? Gohan was the most popular character at the Cell Games, next arc Toriyama makes him weaker and he is instantly hated.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:I swear, the Gohan fanboys won't be happy unless he just bends over and farts all of Freeza's men into the sun.
fadeddreams5 wrote: Honestly, this would only make me slightly satisfied. To make me happy, he'd also have to grab Freeza by the tail, drag him to the nearest toilet, and give him swirlies until he submits and calls him "daddy."

Gohan deserves it.

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Re: Official DBZ 2015 Movie Power Discussion: "Fukkatsu no F

Post by rereboy » Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:47 am

ZazamPow wrote: That would be bad. Who would want to see a DBZ movie about power regression? Gohan was the most popular character at the Cell Games, next arc Toriyama makes him weaker and he is instantly hated.
He was disliked, not because he was weaker, but because, even though he took Goku's role as the main force of the planet agaisnt threats, he just slacked off for 7 years. Which means that he didn't learn much about responsibility, despite Goku dying because of that.

It can be argued that Goku also was never very responsible, but his character was built on him being kind of a lovable fool who just likes to train and better himself, so that plays into his character. Gohan, on the other hand, is portrayed as very intelligent, someone who can look at things in a way that Goku can't, and also someone who really wishes to help people out on various levels, which is why he even becomes a super-hero. Yet, despite this, despite Gohan being apparently the one fighter who is more inclined to think responsibly and the one fighter who was given a harsh lesson regarding responsibility at the Cell games with Goku dying because of it, he is the only one that slacks off for 7 years, becoming weaker.

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Re: Official DBZ 2015 Movie Power Discussion: "Fukkatsu no F

Post by Hugo Boss » Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:28 am

ZazamPow wrote:Who would want to see a DBZ movie about power regression?
Not exactly a power regression, but using SS3 powers in his base form and then opening room to reach his divine level without the help of others.

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