Goku rage boost vs nappa?

[DieHard]

I dont understand the daizenshuu,it says Nappa is 4.000 (makes sense he was scared of 5000 in the manga) but his strength was almost equal to goku with 8000. The manga says goku power level doubled when he used kaio-ken,but according to the daizenshuu he was OVER 16000,but vegeta was 18000 and he easily defeated goku with his power SUPRESSED.Doesnt that make it impossible for vegeta to fight goku with his power supressed?

according to the daizenshuu
* goku: 8000
* nappa: 4000
* vegeta: 18000
* goku kaio-ken: 16.000
* goku kaio-ken x2: 24.000
* goku kaio-ken x3: 32.000

I heard that base kaioken and kaioken x2 are the same thing but that doesnt make sense.Goku says that he couldnt defeat vegeta even when he used kaioken x2 which was starting to hurt his body like kaio said.Plus it would still make goku 16000 and there is the thing with vegeta supressing his power.And even so goku would be 24000 with kaio-ken x3 but he should have defeated vegeta easily like that like vegeta did with

this doesnt make sense.Goku with kaio-ken x2 could not defeat vegeta. I think the real power levels are this:

goku: 5000
goku (rage boost): 8000
nappa: 4000
vegeta supressed: ~13000
goku kaioken: 10000
vegeta full power: 18000
goku kaioken x2: 15000
goku kaioken x3: 20000

what do you think.do you agree?

[dbgtFO]

what do you think.do you agree?

No. The official levels can come off as bordeline ridiculous and it'll be nice knowing who the source is, but I'm going to stick to Goku's full power being 8,000, Nappa at 4,000, but somehow seemingly as good as Goku, when calm and Kaio-ken being the same as KKx2.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Goku went from 90-180,000 using the Kaioken. The normal and X2 are the same. Also, I doubt that was a rage boost. Goku was slowly raising his Battle Power right before the power-up.

[dbgtFO]

Also, I doubt that was a rage boost. Goku was slowly raising his Battle Power right before the power-up.

Well his power started to rise as he got angry about learning his friends were killed, so tc could just say that was an extended rage boost.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Goku was at 8,000 the entire time and even shown smiling when fighting, though. I don't see why it needs to be a rage boost.

[Diotor]

I always thought 4,000 was pretty low for Nappa. I had him pegged as closer to 6,000, as a 25% difference in power would certainly give the level of superiority Goku has over him, rather than being double his strength. That usually means you're totally outclassed in Z.

[Hitiro]

I always thought 4,000 was pretty low for Nappa. I had him pegged as closer to 6,000, as a 25% difference in power would certainly give the level of superiority Goku has over him, rather than being double his strength. That usually means you're totally outclassed in Z.

Was he not outclassed? The only thing that worried him was Nappa's mouth blast but as we know Ki blasts amplify Ki to a certain degree. Hence why Piccolo could take down Raditz. The Shin Kikoho could hold Cell back and Vegeta could hurt Cell.

[Dayspring]

Daizenshuu 7's PL section lists Nappa at 4,000 and the bio from that same book says he's "in the 4,000s." 4,000 would thus be prior to powering up and 4,999 could be his potential max.

Also, where does it say that Kaioken x1 and x2 are identical? I always figured Kaioken x1 brought you back to your max strength. For example, Goku at 5,000 normally, at 8,000 with difficulty, progressively back to 5,000 until either rested or using Kaioken x1.

[DieHard]

[PORNOGRAHPIC IMAGE REMOVED BY MODERATOR. USER BANNED.] Nappa fights hand to hand with Goku equally.

[RancorSnp]

In my opinion the fight between Goku and Nappa is around the same "equally" as fight between Super Buu and Super Vegetto. Sure it looks like the bad guy can hold his ground and sometimes even has an attack that looks dangerous, but good guy can end it any moment he wants.

[KingKaiGuy]

The chapter is titled The Tranquil Fury of Son Goku, if I recall correctly, so I don't see an outright rage boost as you are suggesting. Yeah, Goku was pissed, but wasn't going berserk or anything.

[ZazamPow]

Once Nappa calmed down and focused, he was able to fight on par with Goku. This would all make sense if they were of similar power levels, and Goku was initially humiliating him due to taking advantage of his rage and lack of technique, then when Nappa calmed he was able to match Goku's technique, but if Goku was truly two times stronger than calm Nappa still shouldn't have stood a chance. The daizenshuu might have just screwed up in pegging Nappa at 4,000. Plus the thing with Kaioken has always bugged me as well.

[The Monkey King]

I don't believe Goku had a rage boost, that was Gohan's thing.
And I also don't believe Nappa's PL was 4000, I have it at 6000 as a calm Nappa could have a somewhat even H2H fight with Goku.

Spoiler:

Not to mention Goku's comment

Chapter: 226 (DBZ 32), P7.4/P8.1-4
Context: after Goku deflects Nappa's mouth blast
Vegeta: “Unbelievable!! To instantly deflect it at that short of a distance!”
Goku: “Phew. If I had taken that one head on, I’d have been in trouble!!”
Nappa: It…It can’t be!!! That was my…my best technique!!! He…He just bounced it off!!”
Goku: “He really is a tough bastard! Even though he should have been hurt a little bit by my Kamehameha!! At this rate this looks like it will take forever...”

This clearly is not a fight where once fighter is twice as strong as the other.

Also I really don't understand why so people are so defensive of the Daizenshuu PLs when by reading the manga you would not think such a thing for a second.
For example the Daizenshuu states that Piccolo's PL is 3500 while Nappa's is 4000. This clearly makes no sense, according to the Daizenshuu Nappa and Piccolo should be able to have a really close fight yet Nappa is clearly in a whole other league and stomps him into the ground:

Spoiler:

Just look at Piccolo's quotes:

Chapter: 216 (DBZ 22), P12.2, P13.2-6
Context: after Kuririn’s ki blast doesn’t faze Nappa or Vegeta
Kuririn: “I…I did that at full-power!!! So this is what Saiyans are!!”
Tenshinhan: “The ground!!! The ground’s shaking!!!”
Chaozu: “Ten!!! My powers don’t work!!!”
Piccolo: “I never thought it would be so much!!!”

Chapter: 217 (DBZ 23), P7.6
Context: after Nappa beats up on Tenshinhan
Piccolo: “Wh-what power…!”

Chapter: 217 (DBZ 23), P10.2
Context: talking about Nappa’s blast and the hole it creates
Piccolo: “I ca…can’t see the hole’s bottom…What a tremendous energy wave…!”

Chapter: Chapter 218(DBZ 24), P14.3
Context: after Nappa isn’t injured by Tenshinhan’s Kikoho
Piccolo: “He-he’s a damn monster…”

Chapter: Chapter 219(DBZ 25), P1.2
Context: still after Nappa isn’t hurt by the Kikoho
Piccolo: “It…it can’t be…Is h-he immortal…!?”

These two fighters are clearly not in the same league of power. The Daizenshuu's PLs given for Piccolo and Nappa are blatantly inaccurate. I don't care if it's "official". Manga > Daizenshuu.

[dbgtFO]

I agree @The Monkey King.
From a narrative point of view it just doesn't make sense that Gohan's best would be so much below Piccolo. His power is supposed to be the greatest out of the Earth fighters, once he gets mad and that's why Piccolo had so much faith in him landing the finishing blow.
If his power was a joke compared to Piccolo's, then it kinda ruins all that buildup and Krillin's and Vegeta's reactions are meaningless and Piccolo would be a fool.
If Toriyama really came up with that, then it's like he was taking the piss out of Gohan even back then.

[Hitiro]

Well, it's not necessarily going to be a close fight with a gap of 3,500 and 4,000. Because race would also have to do with it. Goku was clearly above Piccolo throughout the fight at the 23rd Budokai but Akira Toriyama puts their battle powers at 408 and 416. It's clear that Saiyan's are just genetically better then Namekian's in toughness, strength, stamina, speed, etc. You aren't going to see that with two Saiyan's fighting each other. But with two different races you would.

I noticed I never commented on the rage boost thing though. I doubt Goku had a rage boost because of all the times we see rage boosts they are a short thing and usually the "rage boost" character would be flipping out during that time. Not once did Goku's battle power drop randomly for no reason. He maintained 8,000 until he either got exhausted or hurt.

[mAcChaos]

Well, it's not necessarily going to be a close fight with a gap of 3,500 and 4,000. Because race would also have to do with it. Goku was clearly above Piccolo throughout the fight at the 23rd Budokai but Akira Toriyama puts their battle powers at 408 and 416. It's clear that Saiyan's are just genetically better then Namekian's in toughness, strength, stamina, speed, etc. You aren't going to see that with two Saiyan's fighting each other. But with two different races you would.

I noticed I never commented on the rage boost thing though. I doubt Goku had a rage boost because of all the times we see rage boosts they are a short thing and usually the "rage boost" character would be flipping out during that time. Not once did Goku's battle power drop randomly for no reason. He maintained 8,000 until he either got exhausted or hurt.

Isn't it actually the other way around, given how much more powerful Namekians can get in base?

[Hitiro]

Isn't it actually the other way around, given how much more powerful Namekians can get in base?

I don't believe so. While they have better gains than the Saiyan's they are at a disadvantage against a Saiyan of equal battle power.

[singsing]

Yea, I'm pretty sure it has to do with evolving to survive on a planet with 10x gravity.

[sayian_nation_]

Yea, I'm pretty sure it has to do with evolving to survive on a planet with 10x gravity.

bingo

[Akira]

I'm fairly certain the 4,000 number is accurate, but it is Nappa's base power. He's seen to power up a couple of times during the fight, so it was likely much higher by the time Goku arrived.