Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection 'F'"

[Low Tone G]

Super Saiyan Big Bang

Believe me Vegeta is nothing else than Daimond Saiyan(according to that ridiculous fan made ending of the movie)

[KaiserNeko]

I don't care if Super Saiyan goes away and never comes back. Why?

Because we've already had countless movies and episodes with them. We've already experienced them all. We've had five different iterations, including Super Saiyan God. One might say they became too much of the focus, that they got out of control, that they became totally passe by the end of the series.

And hell, Ultimate Gohan got rid of his need for it, yet people were upset to find him using it in this movie. Why can't we have Son Goku and Vegeta do the same?

To me: Super Saiyan is not the essence of the series. It's an iconic part of it, but 248 episodes/316 manga chapters (including GT, that's 248/508 episodes, so just under half, and not including it, that's 248/444, which is over half), 8 movies, etc. had absolutely no Super Saiyans, and most of those were my favorite parts of the series.

The forms themselves shouldn't matter so much to people. It's the events that surrounded them, the story, that should be the most engaging parts about them. Because all they've ever meant is a power increase, and that's... well, that's actually a pretty simple part of the show. Go Super Saiyan, become more powerful. Become Super Saiyan 2, become even more powerful. The small details vary slightly, but it never really matters in the end. Sure, they were visually interesting, but Son Goku is Son Goku with his iconic black hair any day. Same with Vegeta.

[ZazamPow]

Bring back Oozaru!

[FortuneSSJ]

-Adidas Promotional-
Toriyama and his new obsession for tracksuits.

[Lord Beerus]

-Adidas Promotional-
Toriyama and his new obsession for tracksuits.

Awesome art!

I hope those tracksuits become available in Xenoverse.

[Big Momma]

I hope those tracksuits become available in Xenoverse.

This. I would love to have my cute, little Majin girl running around in that blue tracksuit.

[Kakarot9001]

I hope those tracksuits become available in Xenoverse.

I can imagine SSJ2 Goku with a tracksuit, so awesome!

EDIT: Gohan is supposed to be taller than Goku

And hell, Ultimate Gohan got rid of his need for it, yet people were upset to find him using it in this movie. Why can't we have Son Goku and Vegeta do the same?

And how would people be not upset with it? Gohan "Mystic" form was a thing only made for him, and now Goku, and Vegeta too? Lame.

And for a reason without explanation Gohan is a Super Saiyan again, why? If Elder Kai said that he won't need to transform anymore (even though he still can do)

[Big Momma]

And how would people be not upset with it? Gohan "Mystic" form was a thing only made for him, and now Goku, and Vegeta too? Lame.

One could say the same thing for Super Saiyan it was supposed to be a "Legend", not something anyone with Saiyan blood post Freeza could achieve, and on multiple levels.

[Gyt Kaliba]

And how would people be not upset with it? Gohan "Mystic" form was a thing only made for him, and now Goku, and Vegeta too? Lame.

One could say the same thing for Super Saiyan it was supposed to be a "Legend", not something anyone with Saiyan blood post Freeza could achieve, and on multiple levels.

Exactly. Super Saiyan was originally meant to be something that we would only ever see one character, Goku, achieve, but then literally one arc later, we have a buttload of people achieving it.

[shinmaru]

I hope those tracksuits become available in Xenoverse.

I can imagine SSJ2 Goku with a tracksuit, so awesome!

You'll probably still see SSJ2, it's just not a transformation they depend on anymore. Maybe In the future mixed with God Ki, who knows.

EDIT: Gohan is supposed to be taller than Goku

He is standing behind him

[bleed0range]

One thing I don't like about the God tranformation is how confusing it is. You don't just transform you have to have a little ritual. And then what? Goku absorbed it and can now use it involuntarily or voluntarily? Is his base form now just stronger and he can't actually transform? How would Vegeta achieve it without the ritual? If anyone else achieved it would they always have to do the little ritual? Just wish it was as clean cut as super saiyan. Just bam you transform.

[ZazamPow]

While I'm personally okay with everybody becoming a Super Saiyan, I think it would have been possible for Super Saiyan to be less of a form and more about the individual. Goku could have been THE Super Saiyan, the destined warrior. He wouldn't be A Super Saiyan, Goku would be the Super Saiyan. Then that would make Vegeta forcing himself to transform all the more impressive, how he basically went against nature and destiny through sheer will power. Then rather than Gohan and the kids also transforming, their extreme power could just be more about them being prodigies, they would be super strong at base, pretty much mystic. Then that would leave Goku and Vegeta as the only Super Saiyans.

[sintzu]

While I'm personally okay with everybody becoming a Super Saiyan, I think it would have been possible for Super Saiyan to be less of a form and more about the individual. Goku could have been THE Super Saiyan, the destined warrior. He wouldn't be A Super Saiyan, Goku would be the Super Saiyan. Then that would make Vegeta forcing himself to transform all the more impressive, how he basically went against nature and destiny through sheer will power. Then rather than Gohan and the kids also transforming, their extreme power could just be more about them being prodigies, they would be super strong at base, pretty much mystic. Then that would leave Goku and Vegeta as the only Super Saiyans.

It'll be interesting if Toriyama does this with Ssjg.

[dbzfan7]

And hell, Ultimate Gohan got rid of his need for it, yet people were upset to find him using it in this movie. Why can't we have Son Goku and Vegeta do the same?

My problem is not only did Goku and Vegeta take that concept, but them using it has now possibly made it forbidden for Gohan to use his Ultimate state. If you recall back in the manga around the Majin Vegeta stuff, this same thing happened before. Suddenly Gohan stops using SSJ2, or Toriyama just stopped drawing his aura like an SSJ2. This has caused the whole "Was he an SSJ2" debate around these forums, and pretty much anywhere the topic is brought up. Even the guidebooks contradict themselves on this topic.

The simple theory is that Toriyama wanted to show Goku and Vegeta fighting on a whole other level, so he stopped drawing Gohan with the same SSJ2 characteristics as them, or basically took SSJ2 from him. Now we come years later where this same thing is happening again, but this time it seems they're making Gohan a Super Saiyan, so people don't lump him in with what Goku and Vegeta are now.

[ZazamPow]

And hell, Ultimate Gohan got rid of his need for it, yet people were upset to find him using it in this movie. Why can't we have Son Goku and Vegeta do the same?

My problem is not only did Goku and Vegeta take that concept, but them using it has now possibly made it forbidden for Gohan to use his Ultimate state. If you recall back in the manga around the Majin Vegeta stuff, this same thing happened before. Suddenly Gohan stops using SSJ2, or Toriyama just stopped drawing his aura like an SSJ2. This has caused the whole "Was he an SSJ2" debate around these forums, and pretty much anywhere the topic is brought up. Even the guidebooks contradict themselves on this topic.

The simple theory is that Toriyama wanted to show Goku and Vegeta fighting on a whole other level, so he stopped drawing Gohan with the same SSJ2 characteristics as them, or basically took SSJ2 from him. Now we come years later where this same thing is happening again, but this time it seems they're making Gohan a Super Saiyan, so people don't lump him in with what Goku and Vegeta are now.

Keep in mind that at the time of Gohan fighting Dabura and Goku fighting Vegeta, there was no such thing as Super Saiyan 2. The concept of different levels of Super Saiyan wasn't introduced until Goku went Super Saiyan 3, at that time there was just -- Super Saiyan, and powered up forms of Super Saiyan along with one Super Saiyan possibly being stronger than another. I think that's why Toriyama didn't clearly draw Gohan as a SSJ2; it's because there was no Super Saiyan 2 to distinguish, then when he drew Goku and Vegeta fighting, that was a lot more epic than Gohan's fight with Dabura, so it's back to the lightning and stuff to make it more epic.

[Lord Beerus]

I don't care if Super Saiyan goes away and never comes back. Why?

Because we've already had countless movies and episodes with them. We've already experienced them all. We've had five different iterations, including Super Saiyan God. One might say they became too much of the focus, that they got out of control, that they became totally passe by the end of the series.

And hell, Ultimate Gohan got rid of his need for it, yet people were upset to find him using it in this movie. Why can't we have Son Goku and Vegeta do the same?

To me: Super Saiyan is not the essence of the series. It's an iconic part of it, but 248 episodes/316 manga chapters (including GT, that's 248/508 episodes, so just under half, and not including it, that's 248/444, which is over half), 8 movies, etc. had absolutely no Super Saiyans, and most of those were my favorite parts of the series.

The forms themselves shouldn't matter so much to people. It's the events that surrounded them, the story, that should be the most engaging parts about them. Because all they've ever meant is a power increase, and that's... well, that's actually a pretty simple part of the show. Go Super Saiyan, become more powerful. Become Super Saiyan 2, become even more powerful. The small details vary slightly, but it never really matters in the end. Sure, they were visually interesting, but Son Goku is Son Goku with his iconic black hair any day. Same with Vegeta.

Well said KaiserNeko!

[dbzfan7]

And hell, Ultimate Gohan got rid of his need for it, yet people were upset to find him using it in this movie. Why can't we have Son Goku and Vegeta do the same?

My problem is not only did Goku and Vegeta take that concept, but them using it has now possibly made it forbidden for Gohan to use his Ultimate state. If you recall back in the manga around the Majin Vegeta stuff, this same thing happened before. Suddenly Gohan stops using SSJ2, or Toriyama just stopped drawing his aura like an SSJ2. This has caused the whole "Was he an SSJ2" debate around these forums, and pretty much anywhere the topic is brought up. Even the guidebooks contradict themselves on this topic.

The simple theory is that Toriyama wanted to show Goku and Vegeta fighting on a whole other level, so he stopped drawing Gohan with the same SSJ2 characteristics as them, or basically took SSJ2 from him. Now we come years later where this same thing is happening again, but this time it seems they're making Gohan a Super Saiyan, so people don't lump him in with what Goku and Vegeta are now.

Keep in mind that at the time of Gohan fighting Dabura and Goku fighting Vegeta, there was no such thing as Super Saiyan 2. The concept of different levels of Super Saiyan wasn't introduced until Goku went Super Saiyan 3, at that time there was just -- Super Saiyan, and powered up forms of Super Saiyan along with one Super Saiyan possibly being stronger than another. I think that's why Toriyama didn't clearly draw Gohan as a SSJ2; it's because there was no Super Saiyan 2 to distinguish, then when he drew Goku and Vegeta fighting, that was a lot more epic than Gohan's fight with Dabura, so it's back to the lightning and stuff to make it more epic.

There was a distinguished difference. He drew SSJ and SSJ2 aura's differently. SSJ2 wasn't a name, but he already knew there were two levels of Super Saiyan. The scenario is either he drew Gohan as an SSJ so he could portray Goku and Vegeta on another level, or he refused to give Gohan the same SSJ2 attributes to portray Goku and Vegeta's fight on another level. That's the first case of Gohan being taken down a peg, so Goku and Vegeta can look better by comparison. We already know Goku and Vegeta are stronger, but to emphasize this he removed features from Gohan. Here we are years later, and this time Gohan is being made a Super Saiyan only, so he isn't looped into the same group as Goku and Vegeta. Essentially having Goku and Vegeta rip off Gohan's special perk, and leave Gohan with something they seemingly parted with. Guess Vegeta ripping off Gohan last movie wasn't enough.

[Chuquita]

-Adidas Promotional-
Toriyama and his new obsession for tracksuits.

Awesome art!

I hope those tracksuits become available in Xenoverse.

I'd almost forgotten about the light blue tracksuit!
If it became an option in XV, it'd be an insta-buy. ( ´ ▽ ` )

[ZazamPow]

There was a distinguished difference. He drew SSJ and SSJ2 aura's differently. SSJ2 wasn't a name, but he already knew there were two levels of Super Saiyan. The scenario is either he drew Gohan as an SSJ so he could portray Goku and Vegeta on another level, or he refused to give Gohan the same SSJ2 attributes to portray Goku and Vegeta's fight on another level. That's the first case of Gohan being taken down a peg, so Goku and Vegeta can look better by comparison. We already know Goku and Vegeta are stronger, but to emphasize this he removed features from Gohan. Here we are years later, and this time Gohan is being made a Super Saiyan only, so he isn't looped into the same group as Goku and Vegeta. Essentially having Goku and Vegeta rip off Gohan's special perk, and leave Gohan with something they seemingly parted with. Guess Vegeta ripping off Gohan last movie wasn't enough.

I think you're giving Toriyama too much credit. As unbelievably talented as he is, we should all know by now that he's not a planner, most story developments just came from the top of his head, and he certainly isn't one for grand sweeping themes or much imagery/symbolism. Purposely portraying Goku and Vegeta as being on another level than Gohan by making them look sharper and electrified likely isn't something he thought about. At that time, there was only one level of Super Saiyan. Gohan was originally given the electricity and stuff just to make him look more powerful, then since he was weaker against Dabura, and also the fact that that fight wasn't a very big deal, giving him the same epicness wasn't neccesary. Goku and Vegeta's fight was simply a bigger deal, so Toriyama brought out all the stops.

[dbgtFO]

At that time, there was only one level of Super Saiyan.

Gohan and Vegeta both referred to it as surpassing Super Saiyan, same way Goku would before going with 2.