Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Dyno]

But yes according to Toriyama himself.

[Kamiccolo9]

But yes according to Toriyama himself.

Neat. So how strong can a low class get, before he can be promoted? 1,501? 2,000?

[Dyno]

Considering Nappa's power level from a guide, 3.500-4.000.

Considering the manga, we don't know.

[Kamiccolo9]

Considering Nappa's power level from a guide, 3.500-4.000.

Considering the manga, we don't know.

No, all we know is that a level of 4,000 is considered mid class, and a level of 1,500 is considered low class. Anything further than that is pure speculation. As far as we know, Raditz was the upper echelon of low class Saiyans, and a level of 1,501 would be considered mid class.

As for Bardock, there is also a quote in that interview you gave me that says that he is not able to become a mid class soldier. 2,000 is totally fair for him.

[Dyno]

The same can be said about Raditz. I don't know where or when it is stated Raditz is in the upper echelon. Even if this state is true, now we know Bardock is at the top of the low class, which puts him above Raditz but keeping his low class status.

[Kamiccolo9]

The same can be said about Raditz. I don't know where or when it is stated Raditz is in the upper echelon. Even if this state is true, now we know Bardock is at the top of the low class, which puts him above Raditz but keeping his low class status.

That's the point. We. Don't. Know.
And no, it does not put him above Raditz. Bardock was dead before Raditz was fully grown. You're making unwarranted speculations.

[Kaboom]

I like to think that the 4,000-5,000 range is the "transition" range when a Saiyan could be promoted from from low-class to elite/mid-class.

Nappa was an elite at 4,000-something, but he was pretty old, and I strongly suspect he was more powerful in his prime. While anime-Bardock is undeniably up near 10,000, I like to think manga/Minus-Bardock may have been about half of that and in the 4,000's himself. Stronger than average, and probably qualified to become an elite, but not quite strong enough to seal the deal.

As for Gine, her power level is a mystery too, since only her softer personality was said to be a problem in battle, not her strength. But I guess it wouldn't be a stretch to assume that since she didn't fight or win much, she wouldn't get very strong.

[Dyno]

And no, it does not put him above Raditz. Bardock was dead before Raditz was fully grown. You're making unwarranted speculations.

You said 2.000 is fair enough. Raditz is 1.500... Even buying your idea (which I don't), Bardock is still stronger.

[Kamiccolo9]

And no, it does not put him above Raditz. Bardock was dead before Raditz was fully grown. You're making unwarranted speculations.

You said 2.000 is fair enough. Raditz is 1.500... Even buying your idea (which I don't), Bardock is still stronger.

It is fair, but it's still speculation. Bardock could be 1,501, and still fit every bit of info we're given.

[Dyno]

This is like saying Raditz could easily win against one or two Saibaman, which he can't. From 1,200 to 1,500 is not a huge gap... Actually the gap pratically does not even exist at all. Raditz would win against a Saibaman with extreme difficulty, barely surviving. Let alone three or four Saibaman, he would die for sure.

If Raditz is a low class warrior with 1,500 and Bardock is the strongest low class warrior. This pretty much puts him at least 3,000.

[Kamiccolo9]

If Raditz is a low class warrior with 1,500 and Bardock is the strongest low class warrior. This pretty much puts him at least 3,000.

What? No, it makes him at least 1,501. We have a grand total of ONE recorded low class power, and ONE Middle class power. Bardock just has to be between them. Assuming Toriyama was including Raditz when talking about Bardock (I don't see why he would, as Raditz wasn't fully grown at the time of Bardock's death) all he has to be is stronger than Raditz.

Bardock being twice as strong is not backed by anything.

[Saiga]

The gap between Raditz and a Saibaiman is the same proportional gap between SS Goku and 100% Freeza in their fight. So I don't see him nearly dying or even struggling, especially since Nappa only says their power rivals Raditz. In all other areas the gap should be even bigger.

[Black Hawk]

I pretty much agree with everything here and it seems to fit pretty well with what's been stated about Goku's power level in base being lesser than Freeza's even after all those years of training. Any chance of a GT expanion in the future or would that be too hard to calculate?

I've calculated GT's battle powers a number of times, and they've changed quite a bit each time, but I'd be happy to post my most recent batch here, if you'd like!

I don't have a GT template like the one I used for the manga battle powers, so they'd be in a list (by battle), much like the ones under the spoiler in my previous post were, if that's alright.

[ParkerAL]

Dragon Ball Minus

Spoiler:

Kakarot: 2.
Jaco: 20.
Son Gohan: 105.

Gine: 500.
Bardock: 2,000.

Freeza: 530,000.

Jaco seems too low. I can't picture a member of an elite galactic patrol group getting by on a two-digit power level.

[Kaboom]

It was said that the Galactic Patrol are strong enough to handle Saiyan children... but shouldn't that include them as Oozaru, too? That's the Saiyans' typical MO for attacking planets, after all. So I'd figure Jaco's power level to be a few hundred at least, but only a little over a thousand at best.

[Hugo Boss]

In groups or individually?

I don't know, Gohan and Goku sure had used Oozaru while kids, but such transformation would be something to comment if the Galactic Patrol were to fight them as this.

[DanielSSJ]

Here's my opinion of the Saiyan power classes.

Anyone with a power level less than 1,000 would be considered a lower class outcast. 1,000-5,000 would be considered middle class. Anything above 5,000 would be upper class, and 10,000 is the limit that a Saiyan generally achieves.

Goku at the start of Z, would be a botton-of-the-barrel Saiyan with a base level of 400 and a 900 when using the kamehameha. Raditz is right at the bottom of mid-class with his 1,200-1,500 power level. Nappa, in my mind, is usually a 4,000, but can push it to 6,000 when he needs to, which sits him at the edge between mid-class and upper-class. Bardock and King Vegeta would be some of the strongest Saiyans around at 10,000. Vegeta would have been the strongest Saiyan in recent history with his 18,000 power level. This, of course, ignores the ridiculous levels that the main cast achieves during the Namek Arc and onward.

[Dyno]

The only problem is that... There is not an "upper-class". It ranges from "Low-class/level", "Mid-class/level" to "Elite-class/level".
Toriyama specified aproximately ten Saiyans belonging to mid-class, only King Vegeta and Vegeta represent the elite... All the rest are low-class warriors. Bardock is in the upper rank of a low-class, a little stronger and he is/would be promoted to mid-class.

I think it is totally safe to say the only mid-class we knew about was Nappa.

[Skar]

Dragon Ball Minus

Spoiler:

Kakarot: 2.
Jaco: 20.
Son Gohan: 105.

Gine: 500.
Bardock: 2,000.

Freeza: 530,000.

Jaco seems too low. I can't picture a member of an elite galactic patrol group getting by on a two-digit power level.

I think kid Goku is too low. At three years old his power level was only 2? Grandpa Gohan said he would've had trouble if he wasn't a martial artist so I think Goku would need to be at least above an adult average human at the time.

Also something funny I noticed about kid Goku's Daizenshuu power level. I heard some people argue that power levels aren't linear so Goku having a power level of 10 means he's actually more than 2x the power of the farmer. The scale was inconsistent and it went back and forth between linear and exponential throughout the manga so that doesn't tell us which one they're using here. The Daizenshuu flatout says "He already has twice the power of an ordinary person". After that they record Oozaru Goku's power level as 100. We know Oozaru is 10x the power and they recorded it as 10x the power level which means they were thinking in terms of a simple linear scale. Obviously that wouldn't be consistent with the scale between an average human and 100% Roshi who could destroy the moon but they weren't meant to be I guess. It is funny to imagine how weak the other low-class Saiyans were if we're expected to believe Goku was only 10 after years of training with Grandpa Gohan.

[Kaboom]

The thing I always feel a need to point out about that 10 level for Goku is that, strictly, these numbers just measure raw amount of ki. Goku may have "only" twice the ki power of an ordinary human at that point, but his Saiyan physiology would make him physically stronger and tougher than someone else with that power level.