Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection 'F'"

[Sandubadear]

Vegeta dance

Vegeta dance is the top point of BoG. Besides Pilaf appearing, it was the thing I liked the most.

[Abel Taylor]

BoG was far from a movie that we all expected, I can't take its flaws, Vegeta dance, "Super Saiyan God" is one of the most pointless plot ever introduced to the series, its concept was took from TOEI Movies, (Everybody gives energy to Goku gain power to defeat the villain), a God above Vegetto (huge overpower) and etc.

But it was kind amusing, I guess... But I prefer way more Movie 13 and 9 than BoG for sure

RoF is failing to me by not introduce anything new and its story seems to some kind of fanfic written by Freeza or maybe Vegeta fanboys

How is making Beerus stronger than Vegetto a huge overpower? Yeah, it's a huge jump in power from the Majin Buu Saga, but we see those jumps all the time, such as...
Frieza and Goku being the strongest beings in the universe to Trunks slicing Frieza in half and toying with him and defeating King Cold with one blast to android 18 taking on Vegeta and Trunks, easily deceating Trunks.
--or--
Vegeta considers Dabura, who was as strong as Perfect Cell at least, a nonthreat. That is the same Cell who, in the last saga, was able to crush everyone but Gohan. 7 years of training or not, it's a huge jump.
And In that same saga, Vegeta powered up more to match Goku's ssj2, both stronger than Gohan, the strongest being from the last saga, only to diento Majin Buu, who then gets knocked around by Goku, and then more power jumps ensue.
Power jumps are not new in Dragon Ball.

I do think it is crazy how strong he is, but it is nice.

[ArchedThunder]

Cannot agree more than that, Freeza new form is a strict contradiction to GT, Toriyama should have revised this.

There isn't any reason for Toriyama to try and write these movies around GT. GT was not his continuation and what he is writing is a direct continuation to his work and his work alone, writing it with GT in mind would put dumb limitations on what he could do. Besides. BoG already contradicted GT heavily by making it so that after Goku had already slipped out of God form he went Super Saiyan without noticing because the form no longer affected his power, so why even bother adjusting Freeza in this movie?

Vegeta dance

Vegeta dance is the top point of BoG. Besides Pilaf appearing, it was the thing I liked the most.

I also loved the scene because it was a perfect way to show how Vegeta has grown as a person since his introduction to the series. He was willing to put his pride to the side and make a fool of himself to protect his home and loved ones from a foe he knew he stood no chance against.

[TheGmGoken]

I agree that Toriyama shouldn't necessarily have to worry about GT in his writing. But contradicting it completely could cause problems in selling the DVDs or other broadcast and licensing rights. Unlike the old movies as standalone stories, it was a direct sequel to the Z anime with a lengthy serialized story. GT is also a source of lots of unique merchandise material and video game content. If the franchise creator were to do something to discredit or contradict GT in a serious way, it could potentially have an impact on its marketability. Just look at all the debates about its canonicity we've had over the years, and the way people pick apart his Dragon Box quote, even before new content like the JSAT special started popping up.

So if nothing else, there are financial reasons for Toriyama to want to be respectful of GT's existence. But I suppose he's willing to retcon or alter concepts from his own manga chapters, so who knows if he'll really let it affect his creative vision.

Cannot agree more than that, Freeza new form is a strict contradiction to GT, Toriyama should have revised this.

Dbgt is a strict contradiction to DBGT.

[Sandubadear]

I also loved the scene because it was a perfect way to show how Vegeta has grown as a person since his introduction to the series. He was willing to put his pride to the side and make a fool of him self to protect his home and loved ones from a foe he knew he stood no chance against.

To be honest I just liked because the scene is silly, but yeah, you're right.

[Big Momma]

So if nothing else, there are financial reasons for Toriyama to want to be respectful of GT's existence. But I suppose he's willing to retcon or alter concepts from his own manga chapters, so who knows if he'll really let it affect his creative vision.

Cannot agree more than that, Freeza new form is a strict contradiction to GT, Toriyama should have revised this.

He doesn't/shouldn't have to do shit in regards to GT. I hope he does all he can to retcon that story out of existence. Forget all about it, disregard it. It's not his story. I understand the problem you guys have with Toriyama creating inconsistencies with the new movies...but how on Kami's green earth can you have that mindset, yet still want GT to be recognized? GT is full of inconsistencies and plotholes.

As far as we know, GT doesn't exist in the BoG/FnF timeline. And honestly I pray that it never exists in the timeline. It doesn't belong there.

BoG was far from a movie that we all expected, I can't take its flaws, Vegeta dance, "Super Saiyan God" is one of the most pointless plot ever introduced to the series, its concept was took from TOEI Movies, (Everybody gives energy to Goku gain power to defeat the villain), a God above Vegetto (huge overpower) and etc.

I disagree with Vegeta's dance being a flaw. I loved it. I thought it was great that Vegeta was able to toss out his pride like that for the greater good.

"Everybody givng Goku energy to win" isn't a concept just from the movies. That happens in the series itself. And it wasn't even "everybody". It was just a handful of other people. On top of that, Goku even addresses this. He speaks about him regretting that he needed the others for his transformation. It's not like it was just "Everyone give Goku your ki so he can spirit fist the enemy for the win!"

And there's no rule saying people can't come out who are stronger than Vegetto. Hell, even if the villain wasn't stronger, you guys would just be saying "Well, why didn't they just bring out Vegetto?!" or some shit like that.

[Kakarot9001]

Why does it matter if it contradicts GT? GT is a separate continuity.

Anyway, I don't see how being stronger than Vegetto is a problem. Every saga's main fighters are stronger than those from the previous one, and this is meant to be a continuation and not just a side-story, soooo...

It matters because GT is Z sequel.

Well, I see a problem... I can't take Base Goku being stronger than SSJ3 Vegetto while fighting with a suppressed full potential Oob, Goku shouldn't be that strong in EoZ. I hope we get an explanation to that

[Sandubadear]

He doesn't/shouldn't have to do shit in regards to GT. I hope he does all he can to retcon that story out of existence. Forget all about it, disregard it. It's not his story. I understand the problem you guys have with Toriyama creating inconsistencies with the new movies...but how on Kami's green earth can you have that mindset, yet still want GT to be recognized? GT is full of inconsistencies and plotholes.

As far as we know, GT doesn't exist in the BoG/FnF timeline. And honestly I pray that it never exists in the timeline. It doesn't belong there.

You know, GT has less inconsistencies than the manga, BoG, and Minus, so saying the reason it should be erased is because of the inconsistencies, is not a valid argument.

I agree that GT and BoG don't belong in the same continuity, though.

[ArchedThunder]

Why does it matter if it contradicts GT? GT is a separate continuity.

Anyway, I don't see how being stronger than Vegetto is a problem. Every saga's main fighters are stronger than those from the previous one, and this is meant to be a continuation and not just a side-story, soooo...

It matters because GT is Z sequel.

Well, I see a problem... I can't take Base Goku being stronger than SSJ3 Vegetto while fighting with a suppressed full potential Oob, Goku shouldn't be that strong in EoZ. I hope we get an explanation to that

It was a continuation of Toei's Z anime. These new movies are a continuation of Toriyama's Manga.
It's pretty simple really.

[KaiserNeko]

In my own personal opinion:

Forget GT. Forget how the movies contradict them, forget the series in general, and focus on these movies as an extension of the Dragonball/Z universe. GT is universally regarded as the least popular, the least successful, and the least in quality out of the three anime. It was also sans the original author of the manga. For all intents and purposes, if it utterly invalidated that entire series, I would full and we'll treat these new movies as a proper third series and count GT as a Toei fever dream.

Also, people who still complain about Vegeta's dance fail to grasp that Dragonball is STILL A COMEDY ACTION SERIES, WHETHER THEY LIKE IT OR NOT. That, and Vegeta's character development.

[Big Momma]

He doesn't/shouldn't have to do shit in regards to GT. I hope he does all he can to retcon that story out of existence. Forget all about it, disregard it. It's not his story. I understand the problem you guys have with Toriyama creating inconsistencies with the new movies...but how on Kami's green earth can you have that mindset, yet still want GT to be recognized? GT is full of inconsistencies and plotholes.

As far as we know, GT doesn't exist in the BoG/FnF timeline. And honestly I pray that it never exists in the timeline. It doesn't belong there.

You know, GT has less inconsistencies than the manga, BoG, and Minus, so saying the reason it should be erased is because of the inconsistencies, is not a valid argument.

I agree that GT and BoG don't belong in the same continuity, though.

I understand that. I was just baffled about the people who put so much emphasis on the contradictions of the original series yet want GT validated so badly despite it being imperfect as well. I may not have been clear enough, my mistake.

[Captain Space]

Anyway, regardless of what anyone thinks of the quality of GT, and whether you think it had more or less inconsistencies, yeah, the fact is it's a different continuity. It's Toei's take on continuing DBZ. This is Toriyama's. They are two separate stories.

[bleed0range]

I love how anti-ROF and anti-Toriyama so many are being despite the fact that they don't really know anything about this movie. A lot of opinions about the film are being touted as fact and major assumptions are being made. I am trying to think what exactly the retcons are again that were such a big deal. I honestly am having trouble remembering them.

I've never been clear on how many wishes the dragon gives and it changes all the time so only getting one wish is not really an issue. Freeza being revived in pieces is not really an issue since we don't really fully understand the limitations of Shenrons power. Gohan going super saiyan could just be that he CAN turn SSJ if he wishes. He went mystic in the last film and SSJ only for the ritual. So it appears whether or not it makes a difference he can still turn his hair gold. Maybe he thinks it looks cooler... I mean... saiyaman.

Freeza himself does not appear to be making any jokes or being silly like Beerus. He looks dead serious to get his revenge. There will be an air of seriousness that's been missing this time around I think. The trailers suggest as much. So for those who like the serious tone It will return in some capacity likely.

Freeza being able to catch up to Goku is not really a big stretch as I have pointed out recently... Goku closed in on over a million power level in about a month. The SSJ power up was a huge power up that came out of nowhere and gave him a huge gain. You can say he "trained" to get it but he didn't even know how to get it. He just... Snapped. Freeza didn't known he could transform into a golden form but he did. I get that its a huge power up but if you think how much more ridiculously stronger Freeza was then everyone else... On average a million times stronger... Then it's not that hard to believe. Fans seem to be ready to accept Broly being able to catch up through ssj3 and this fan created "SSJ devil." Despite the fact that Broly's power level was only impressive during the Cell arc. It actually makes little sense if you think about it that Gohan as an adult would have had so much trouble with him.

Is it Hell? We've never seen Toriyamas hell. So what's the big deal? Besides maybe not every part of Hell is the same? It makes perfect sense that it wouldn't be. Maybe Freeza is given special treatment?

Is it that Freeza is being brought back? All the other times were just jokes and GT and movies never really counted anyway. Toriyama revisited the past with the red ribbon army and the cyborgs. Cell is kind of a rehash too in that he is a combination of prior characters and enemies in a new design.

I just don't see the big deal anymore. It's not thingd that warrant the cry that Toriyama shouldn't do DB stuff anymore. I also think that there's likely lots IN the movie that will make this stuff better or the movie itself will just be really good. I feel like they're keeping things from us for a reason. I'm just in shock by how much negativity there is.

[Marco Polo]

In a way these movies are misnamed; they're called "DBZ: BoG" and "DBZ: FnF" even though they really should be considered DB movies, not DBZ. "Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!!" was actually titled DB and not DBZ.

[Captain Space]

To be fair I think BoG was more DB-style (which is part of the reason I suspect some people didn't like it over here--they were used to only the Z portion), and FnF is looking more Z-style.

[Kakarot9001]

He doesn't/shouldn't have to do shit in regards to GT. I hope he does all he can to retcon that story out of existence. Forget all about it, disregard it. It's not his story. I understand the problem you guys have with Toriyama creating inconsistencies with the new movies...but how on Kami's green earth can you have that mindset, yet still want GT to be recognized? GT is full of inconsistencies and plotholes.

As far as we know, GT doesn't exist in the BoG/FnF timeline. And honestly I pray that it never exists in the timeline. It doesn't belong there.

Whatever man, you you can complain all you want, but you can't change the fact that GT is indeed official if Toriyama wants to begin a new DB manga story he have all the rights to ignore GT, but when he do as animated series he must take GT into account.

I disagree with Vegeta's dance being a flaw. I loved it. I thought it was great that Vegeta was able to toss out his pride like that for the greater good.

"Everybody givng Goku energy to win" isn't a concept just from the movies. That happens in the series itself. And it wasn't even "everybody". It was just a handful of other people. On top of that, Goku even addresses this. He speaks about him regretting that he needed the others for his transformation. It's not like it was just "Everyone give Goku your ki so he can spirit fist the enemy for the win!"

And there's no rule saying people can't come out who are stronger than Vegetto. Hell, even if the villain wasn't stronger, you guys would just be saying "Well, why didn't they just bring out Vegetto?!" or some shit like that.

It's a flaw because it is a total mischaracterization of character, Vegeta was always depicted as a arrogant, proud and serious person, the way he fear Beerus at the point of being ridiculous without even knowing his powers (he says that in the movie) it's a plot hole.

Well, If you noticed I'm not taking Genkidama into account, just the way Goku defeated some villains in Movies and GT... He took the energy of his friends just like he did in BoG with the only difference that he didn't defeat Beerus.

[bleed0range]

In a way these movies are misnamed; they're called "DBZ: BoG" and "DBZ: FnF" even though they really should be considered DB movies, not DBZ. "Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!!" was actually titled DB and not DBZ.

That's only because it was celebrating the manga. DBZ and DB are technically the same thing. It makes perfect sense.

[Captain Space]

He doesn't/shouldn't have to do shit in regards to GT. I hope he does all he can to retcon that story out of existence. Forget all about it, disregard it. It's not his story. I understand the problem you guys have with Toriyama creating inconsistencies with the new movies...but how on Kami's green earth can you have that mindset, yet still want GT to be recognized? GT is full of inconsistencies and plotholes.

As far as we know, GT doesn't exist in the BoG/FnF timeline. And honestly I pray that it never exists in the timeline. It doesn't belong there.

Whatever man, you you can complain all you want, but you can't change the fact that GT is indeed official if Toriyama wants to begin a new DB manga story he have all the rights to ignore GT, but when he do as animated series he must take GT into account.

Just because they made it once doesn't mean they can't choose to do something different now. It'd be extremely suffocating and restrictive if every new DB product had to allow for/conform to GT. The medium a new story is told in shouldn't matter in that regard.

[KaiserNeko]

Whatever man, you can complain all you want, but you can't change the fact that GT is indeed official if Toriyama wants to begin a new DB manga story he have all the rights to ignore GT, but when he do as animated series he must take GT into account.

NO! He doesn't! Because Dragonball is HIS. HE CAN MAKE A NEW ANIME THAT IGNORES GT IF HE WANTS!

It's a flaw because it is a total mischaracterization of character, Vegeta was always depicted as a arrogant, proud and serious person, the way he fear Beerus at the point of being ridiculous without even knowing his powers (he says that in the movie) it's a plot hole.

Kaiou-sama told him that Goku at SSJ3 was absolutely demolished by Beerus. This is POST BUU Vegeta, who knows what that kind of power means, and that he doesn't stand even half of a chance. Furthermore, his development has gone a long way to both humble him and "humanize" him. He cares more about the safety of the world over his pride. Even Goku comments on it. It's not a plot hole, it's hilarious and an extension of his character development.

Characters are allowed to change.

[Dyno]

Just about everything created without his involvement has been mediocre to bad. That includes Episode of Bardock. Toriyama is the heart of DB. He's the one who understands the characters better then anyone else.

I think you forgot Dragon Ball Minus, which had his involvement and it has been really mediocre to bad.